Invasion day

[Yoda Twin]

Since 1808. Australia has geared itself towards the massive nationalistic celebrations that is Australia Day on the 26/1. The day, which is generally used to celebrating the Australian way of life was in teh past, used to celebrate the establishment of Australia's settlement.

However, in recent years many have began question whether it is morally right to celebrate the so called "invasion" of the Aboriginal people who scattered themselves across Terra Australis.

Many people who are not in favor of the removal/move of the public holiday suggest that Australia needs an annual holiday to celebrate the great country we live in. many however forget about the more important date of the 1/1/1901 we signified the peaceful unification and federation of the previous British colonies in Australia. Another suggested date is National Sorry day (13/2) which signified Kevin Rudd's apology on behalf of the Australian public to the Aboriginal children lives that were ruined during the Stolen Generation.

So Twcenter, is it right to celebrate "invasion Day" as Australia's National holiday or is a change necessary.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_Day#Invasion_Day
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stolen_Generations
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Botany_Bay

[Dr Zoidberg]

Australia Day is no different to any other country's day of national celebration. Whilst I accept that many horrible things were done to the Aboriginal people, I fail to see I why I should feel guilty for actions of others; actions I had no control over; actions that were normal in the society of the day.

Let us remember these past wrongs, and strive to remove the inequalities that are faced by many Aboriginal Australians today... but I refuse to feel guilty, sorry, or that we should change our national day just because it would make some people 'feel' better.

Furthermore, if it was moved (god forbid), February 13 is the last day I would choose. I disagree with Rudd's apology for the reasons I made above. It was a cheap political stunt that played well with the electorate, but he has done absolutely nothing since in making any actual progress in improving the lives of those he apologised to. It was simply another Rudd Brand (Ltd) 'all spin, no substance' political act.

[basics]

It seems to me that parts of this world have turned into wimpish examples of what political correctness and multiculturalism says is best for us. If the Aboriginies think what the incomers did was bad wait until the Muslim incomers become larger in numbers the stirrings of which are already being felt by those who consider themselves as being Australian.

Had it not been the Anglos someone else would be there and Australia might never have known cricket or beer, at least not the beer they do know. Of course it is hard for a people who have a distinct yet primitive way of life to adapt and be accepted by those already adapted, this is not just Australia's problem but one that has been seen all over the globe.

But to apologise or thought that we somehow must apologise is quite ridiculous. Taken to the limits I'd be as well greeting everyone I meet with an apology for being the offspring of some ancestor who may or may not have caused some offense many moons ago to some other and that is how daft all this nonsense has become.

[Burnum]

Australia Day is no different to any other country's day of national celebration.

I agree. But don't expect me to celebrate the subjugation and oppression of my ancestors.

I fail to see I why I should feel guilty for actions of others;

You shouldn't.

actions that were normal in the society of the day.

Now, that is the biggest load of . Lots of people knew the oppression and Racism was wrong at the time, it's just people running the system thought we were less then human.

I disagree with Rudd's apology for the reasons I made above. It was a cheap political stunt that played well with the electorate.

I disagree. It had real emotional impact on the victims of the Stolen generation, I've yet to meet a victim of the Stolen generation who had negative feelings towards apology.

It seems to me that parts of this world have turned into wimpish examples of what political correctness and multiculturalism says is best for us

It actually be politically incorrect too say that the early Australians were Racist murdering imperialist pigs, who eagerly committed Cultural genocide. Even though they largely were.

If the Aboriginals think what the incomers did was bad

You mean steal our land, destroy our culture, forced us into into what amount interment camps, use Rural Aboriginals for forced labor, steal our children, forced conversion and enact extremely racist discrimination policies.

I say were treated like dogs, but even Dogs had more rights.

bad wait until the Muslim incomers become larger in numbers the stirrings

How could the Muslims do any worse?

of which are already being felt by those who consider themselves as being Australian.

Not even remotely the same.

Of course it is hard for a people who have a distinct yet primitive way of life to adapt and be accepted by those already adapted, this is not just Australia's problem but one that has been seen all over the globe..

More arrogant paternalism.

Taken to the limits I'd be as well greeting everyone I meet with an apology for being the offspring of some ancestor

The stolen generation only stopped 40 years ago.

[Dr Zoidberg]

I agree. But don't expect me to celebrate the subjugation and oppression of my ancestors.

Nobody is asking you to celebrate subjugation and oppression. January 26 is a celebration of the country we have today, that includes all Australians, first or otherwise.

If you choose to see the day in that way, then that is your choice. However, the majority of Australians do not get together for a barbie and stand around making comments such as "hey remember when we arrived here and completely subjugated the natives, how good was that...". That's not what the day is about.

Would changing the date change the realities of history? Of course not. Even if it was on a different day, many Australians would still say it was a day that remembers European 'invasion'. Personally, I don't think they'd be happy with any date.

Now, that is the biggest load of . Lots of people knew the oppression and Racism was wrong at the time, it's just people running the system thought we were less then human.

Of course racism and oppression are wrong. But the policies of a government reflect the attitudes of the people of the day. Many thought they were doing the right thing by taking the children away. We have the benefit of hindsight to look back and see how wrong they were.

I disagree. It had real emotional impact on the victims of the Stolen generation, I've yet to meet a victim of the Stolen generation who had negative feelings towards apology.

Yes, it meant something to those who suffered, as it should. But it was still a cheap political stunt as far as the wider electorate was concerned. It was an easy thing to promise to to, which further differentiated him from Howard, and help get him elected.

When he delivered it, it made the wider electorate "feel good". The way some people carried themselves afterwards was ridiculous... 'we said sorry, it's all good now'. If only it was that simple. I would have more time for the apology if it had been followed up with concrete policies and measure designed to improve the lives of those Australian's living in poverty.

Instead, he has simply continued the policies of the previous Government.

[Ciabhán]

Considering that a fair amount of the 'settlers' were prisoners and had no choice in the matter I don't see how they can be blamed. Top that off with the fact that folks now are not in anyway responsible for the actions of people a hundred(or just a few)years ago and I think they should bloody well celebrate whatever they like.

In reference to the wider picture of politically correct 'white/western guilt'.....all 'white westerners' are not responsible for the actions of all the other 'white westerners' throughout time. Get over it.

[basics]

" It actually be politically incorrect too say that the early Australians were Racist murdering imperialist pigs, who eagerly committed Cultural genocide. Even though they largely were."

Burnum,

What is cultural genocide? Where is there political correctness if indeed the invaders were racist, murdering, imperialist pigs? Do Aboriginies not still in some cases adhere to the old ways or are you saying that they're not allowed to? And by that I mean were their old ways disallowed by Law?

You see the way I look at history is that this continent, vast area, was inhabited by a very small number of people, and who are still a small number of people, that it was an impossibility that settlers should not move in. America and Canada, were pretty much in the same boat where a small population was incapable of holding on to the vast lands that make them up.

Of course I am coming from the opposite extreme here but has that not been the way of man from the beginning of time, that lesser nations have been taken over by more powerful ones, in the most cases to the betterment of all? Do you really believe that the Aboriginies would have progressed, you sitting at a computer calling us murdering racists, would be possible if the old ways were still in play, that none but you were still what was?

[Yoda Twin]

The move to the 13th is a bit of a strech. However, I have never understood why Australia never supported a Federation Day, perhaps the collision with New Years would just be too much.

[Poet]

I think if we do justice with this matter all today Aussies are generations of invaders and mass murderers just like Americans.But then what is the solution to this thing? This is now impossible that all white people leave Australia and go back to Europe so this is not Justice with people who are not responsible of wrong deeds of their fore fathers, but then this would be extremely unjust if you just say that Ok no problem just to advance in the world you have to occupy others' resources and lands no matter how much ever lives this action may take.I think that national sorry say is the best option.But by only celebrating days you cannot do justice with people who suffered a lot and still are suffering. You should make this certain that sons of the soil should be given rights, not equal to present day aussies but more than them.Like Saudi Arabia or Malaysia fix a share of native aussie in business of successful Australians and immigrants.Make it certain that they should be given privilege upon outsiders. Rule of distribution of revenue should not be based on only population but n backwardness and being a native they should be given special attention.Their representation quota (in parliament and every where) should be more than present day aussies and acts like these would make certain that you are not only celebrating a day but you in fact feel sorry.

[basics]

" I think if we do justice with this matter all today Aussies are generations of invaders and mass murderers just like Americans.But then what is the solution to this thing?"

Poet,

Or that Muslim lands were also taken by murder and butchery. There is no solution unless we all go back to where we originated from which in your case would leave Islam bereft of anything. Time, I'm afraid, does not retract. We are what we are and that includes the descendents of any nation that has come and gone in the nature that is humanity.

[removeduser_487563287433]

Of all the former colonies of the British Empire I think Australia handled their race issues worst of all with the exception of South Africa. The White Australia policy, the fact the Australian Government and people tolerated the organised kidnap and institutionalisation of aboriginal children and continuing controversies regarding immigration and attitude towards asylum seekers are historical facts that modern Australia must acknowledge and learn from.

But you can take the good with the bad and I do not feel Australians should be kept from celebrating the day of their founding.

[SinerAthin]

Let a people celebrate their victories.

[removeduser_487563287433]

Let a people celebrate their victories.

Not a great argument. Not sure if the Japanese celebrate the Rape of Nanking.

[SinerAthin]

Not a great argument. Not sure if the Japanese celebrate the Rape of Nanking.

I don't think Nanking had much to do with Japan, really

[removeduser_487563287433]

I don't think Nanking had much to do with Japan, really

No?

[Dr Zoidberg]

I don't think Nanking had much to do with Japan, really

Oh, so it was another invading force that massacred the population of Nanjing... I'll let the Chinese know they've had it wrong for 70 years. I'm sure they'll be pleased to hear the news.

[Burnum]

I would like to make it clear, that I in no way, believe that the current white generation are in anyway guilty of crime against Aboriginals (Unless they were, then they can ing rot hell). I love the current Australia, but hated Australia of the past.

What is cultural genocide?

Cultural genocide is a term used to describe the deliberate destruction of the cultural heritage of a people or nation for political, military, religious, ideological, ethnical, or racial reasons.

Where is there political correctness if indeed the invaders were racist, murdering, imperialist pigs?

Australia has extremely idealized of early Australian settlers and early Australian, it's considered "Unaustralian" and politically incorrect to bring any faults at all with early Australia.

Do Aboriginies not still in some cases adhere to the old ways or are you saying that they're not allowed to?

I'm saying that the Cultural genocide was through that most Aboriginal communities, even the most rural Aboriginals only have fraction of the traditional culture.

You see the way I look at history is that this continent, vast area, was inhabited by a very small number of people, and who are still a small number of people, that it was an impossibility that settlers should not move in.

Australia environment only allows for a small population.

Of course I am coming from the opposite extreme here but has that not been the way of man from the beginning of time, that lesser nations have been taken over by more powerful ones, in the most cases to the betterment of all?

Tell me, how had the White bettered my Ancestors? We weren't allowed an education, right to own property, freedom of movement, freedom of religion, nor the right to vote and we were used as slave labor.


I can honesty say that I don't care that we were conquered, it's what happened afterwards that I am angry about.

I think if we do justice with this matter all today Aussies are generations of invaders and mass murderers just like Americans.

Seriously, dude, knock it off. Not only are you wrong, you insult people I love and care about. Secondly, the Aboriginal civil rights was almost entirely composed of educated white people.

True story, it was a Jewish doctor who campaigned to desegregate the local hospital, saving my father life. It meant that the hospital was forced allocate resources regardless of race (in this antibiotics and more then one doctor for the entire aborginal population).

but then this would be extremely unjust if you just say that Ok no problem just to advance in the world you have to occupy others' resources and lands no matter how much ever lives this action may take.

I'm not sure what this means.

You should make this certain that sons of the soil should be given rights, not equal to present day aussies but more than them.Like Saudi Arabia or Malaysia fix a share of native aussie in business of successful Australians and immigrants.

I have no desire to be hypocrite, I want equality, not supremacy.

Rule of distribution of revenue should not be based on only population but n backwardness and being a native they should be given special attention.

Aboriginals are not backward people.

[boofhead]

Aboriginals are not backward people.

Truth.

[Burnum]

Truth.

Proposals like this anger me, it's built on the assumption we're too inferior or primitive too achieve these things on our own, it's the white population feeling sorry for us.

[boofhead]

Now, that is the biggest load of . Lots of people knew the oppression and Racism was wrong at the time, it's just people running the system thought we were less then human.

Evidence? Or just wishful thinking?

People were just more forthright then, that is all. I've seen video of outsiders meeting PNG natives, first contact. A young David Attenborough in fact in a safari suit. In all honesty, these people look at trinkets like glazed-eyed retards with stupid gummy grins from a modern perspective. The white Australians had no political correctness or brainwashing educational garbage behind them like we do today. They saw, they formed a viewpoint. I'm not saying it's right, or good, but that's the way it was.

You know I saw a vid of the last first contact in the 60s, and this tribe came up.....and what did they say? ''We are freezing cold, give us stuff''.

When Arthur Phillip rocked up and met the locals in 1788 he boiled some water over a fire and a man stuck his hand straight in it because he'd never known boiling water before.

The locals also had a fascination with removable hats, white penises, and thought white men were 1/ possum spirits because of the way they climbed ships'masts and 2/ spirits of the dead come back.

Now, I don't know about you, but it's a bit of a stretch to expect an 18th century man to feel culpable for ideas formulated two centuries after his own death.

I'm not saying it's good. I'm just saying be real.