All Isengard Uruk-hai should have AP

[THEMANMAN]

So I was reading from this LOTRs book about weapons and armor and it said this, "They were equipped with a brutal, one-handed falchion resembling a meat cleaver, which had a spike on the back of the blade for hooking and stabing. Saruman knew that his Uruks would likely be facing the Riders of the Rohirrim, and so added the spike, which could be used to stab and disembowel their horses, or to hook the cloak of a passing rider, pulling him the the ground; agaisnt infantry, the spike could be used to punch through armor." (The Lord of the Rings Weapons and Warfare by Chris Smith)

So should the Uruk-hai of Isengard have AP attacks and a bonus when fighting mounted units, or just one or the other?

I was thinking both, and only units using the Uruk sword would get this bonus.

[Deedlit]

Yeah it makes the facton stand out more.

[Achilla]

And let me guess, the said "The Lord of the Rings Weapons and Warfare" is nothing else but a creative imagination based on LOTR movies and written to backup all these funny ideas on equipment in BFME game series?

You could use as well typical 'gondorian' sword to pierce the armour by simply stabbing/thrusting the target, should it have AP too just because one of possible attack moves has clearly AP trait?

[Baron Samedi]

No it would make Isengard far too superior in the game. In the latest patch KK already implemented the Uruk Cleavers with AP ability. Which makes in total three with: Wargs & Uruk Hai Crossbow.

[BlackViper]

No it would make Isengard far too superior in the game. In the latest patch KK already implemented the Uruk Cleavers with AP ability. Which makes in total three with: Wargs & Uruk Hai Crossbow.

Bersekers have it too I guess.

[Baron Samedi]

Bersekers have it too I guess.

I thought so, but no:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

type             Berserkers
dictionary       Berserkers      ; Berserkers
category         infantry
class            heavy
voice_type       Heavy
banner faction   main_infantry
banner holy      crusade
soldier          Uruk_Berserkers, 30, 0, 8.0
officer          isengard_captain_early_flag
mount_effect     elephant +2
attributes       sea_faring, hide_forest, very_hardy, can_withdraw, frighten_foot, free_upkeep_unit
formation        1.5, 1.5, 3.0, 3.0, 5, square
stat_health      3, 2
stat_pri         15, 12, no, 0, 0, melee, melee_blade, slashing, sword, 0, 1
stat_pri_attr    no
stat_sec         0, 0, no, 0, 0, no, melee_simple, blunt, none, 25, 1
stat_sec_attr    no
stat_pri_armour  6, 4, 0, leather
stat_sec_armour  0, 0, flesh
stat_heat        2
stat_ground      0, 0, 0, -2
stat_mental      15, normal, trained, lock_morale
stat_charge_dist 15
stat_fire_delay  0
stat_food        60, 300
stat_cost        1, 640, 250, 85, 85, 640, 4, 100
armour_ug_levels 1, 2
armour_ug_models Uruk_Berserkers, Uruk_Berserkers_upg
ownership        france
era 0            france
era 1            france
era 2            france
recruit_priority_offset    15

[Point Blank]

Yeah it would make Cleavers and Berserkers etc kinda redundant.

In RC the Uruk swords have an extra attack point for being a 'heavy weapon', but a -1 defense penalty and +15 attack delay.

Berserkers are AP in RC.

[BlackViper]

Berserkers are AP in RC.

Aha.

[NSFW]

Overall I'm a big NO, given that it comes from a source other than Tolkien I can't see any reason to alter a faction which already seems fine, (& which already has more AP melee units than some other factions.)

[Jean=A=Luc]

No. It's all I have to say.

[Thracius]

Eh, in my opinion the Uruk-Hai already tear apart anything in their path anyway with their superior numbers and strength, sure it would be a nice add on but would make them overpowered in my opinion.

[Lordinquisitor]

Suuure, let`s combine the dwarven melee strength with the huge numbers of the orcs.

[Mr. Tornado]

Rohan is isengard's close neighbor. Their main asset is horses. This would completely DESTROY Rohan, no q's asked. NO.

[THEMANMAN]

Rohan is isengard's close neighbor. Their main asset is horses. This would completely DESTROY Rohan, no q's asked. NO.

It was supposed to. Isengard wanted to counter Rohan in every way.

And let me guess, the said "The Lord of the Rings Weapons and Warfare" is nothing else but a creative imagination based on LOTR movies and written to backup all these funny ideas on equipment in BFME game series?

You could use as well typical 'gondorian' sword to pierce the armour by simply stabbing/thrusting the target, should it have AP too just because one of possible attack moves has clearly AP trait?

True, but their swords were considerable lighter from the pic's and preforming mulitable stabbings with a sword like that wouldn't be a good idea since it could easily break.

[jinjo]

i think bonus is not necessary

[Pietrak]

If any faction needs more AP, those are the Elven factions. So NO for Isengard total AP.

[damnmap]

ah yes those falx style swords... I would prefer a light cav unit maybe something like 'dunlending scouts' to pad out the wait for wargs. You can make them really crap I guess so it's not overpowered

[Lordinquisitor]

No matter how they designed their swords; It shoulnd`t warrant them to have AP.

And Uruk-Hai still sucked compared to some rohan warrior..

[THEMANMAN]

No matter how they designed their swords; It shoulnd`t warrant them to have AP.

And Uruk-Hai still sucked compared to some rohan warrior..

In armed combat...no. Maybe if they were having a horse riding competition I would agree with that statement.

[athanaric]

In armed combat...no. Maybe if they were having a horse riding competition I would agree with that statement.

I know 'm repeating myself, but where exactly is it stated that Uruk-hai are superior to humans? Everything I've read from Tolkien suggests that they are about equal to human warriors, and very possibly of inferior worth even in melee. Or why do you think Saruman had Dunlending guards instead of Uruk ones?

I know that in the films upon which this mod is based, Uruk-hai appeared to pwn everybody. That can be easily explained by the facts that
a) their numbers were dismayingly huge and to show this, PJ resorted to the (IMO cheap) method of having many shots with Uruks killing everybody else, and
b) the people at Helm's Deep had many old and underage men among them, who of course could't display the fighting prowess of regular troops.

Though not as tall as the Númenóreans, Rohirrim as well as Dunlendings and even Haradrim (IIRC) are described as (above average) tall and physically powerful people.