Italy: outrageous tax on electronics and optical supports

[DAVIDE]

The Ministry of cultural heritage and activities increased the tax on the private copy: dvd/cd readers, vhs players and tapes. hard disks and ram, usb pen drives and optical supports etc. etc. will cost more than before.

The Ministry of cultural heritage and activities Sandro Bondi (Berlusconi's party) signed an executive order, with the purpose to redeterminate the tax for the private copy. Last 30 december, Bondi modified the previous executive order n68/2003 that for EU's will, had the objective to balance the remuneration between copyrighters, without walking on the citizens right of private copy freedom, to have a free copy of their music or whatever they purchased legally.


The updated costs:

- Analogical audio supports: 0,23 euro for every hour of recording
- Digital audio supports (Cd-r): 0,22 euro for every hour of recording
- Digital supports (cd-r data): 0,15 euro for every 700 mb
- Digital audio supports (cd-rw): 0,15 euro for every 700 mb
- Analogical video supports: 0,29 euro for every hour of recording
- Digital video supports (Dvhs): 0,29 euro for every hour of recording
- Digital supports (DVD standard): 0,41 euro for every 4,7 gb
- Digital supports (DVD dual layers, DVD-RW): 0,41 euro for every 4,7 gb
- Blue ray digital supports: 0,41 euro for every 25 GB


News:

- Analogical/digital recorders, audio and video and CD/DVD recorders: + 5% cost
- recorders in polifunctional systems: +5%
- 0,05 euro/gb for RAM from 35mb to 5GB
- 0,10 euro/gb for external hard disks superior to 4GB capability
- 0,10 euro/gb for USb pen drives from 256mb to 4gb
- 3,22 euro for capabilities till 1gb, 28,98 euro for capabilities superior to 250 GB (in case also of DVD/CD players or recorders etc.)
- 0,64 euro for capabilities till 128 mb, 9,66 euro for capabilities superior to 15GB (in the case of MP3 reader, ram and internal hd)
- 4,51 euro for capability till 80GB, 12,88 euro for the ones superior to 250gb (in the case of external hd, or hi-fi recording )
- 3,22 euro for capability till 1gb, 29,98 euro for the ones superior to 250 GB (external hd with ability of in/exit recording)
- 6,44 euro for capabilities till 50Gb, 28 euro for the ones superior to 250 Gb (in case of vhs recorders. mySky, ram integrated, tv or decoders)
-2,40 euro for every computer sold with an cd/dvd recorder, and 1,90 euro for every pc without cd/dvd recorder




i know this can sound confusing.. but let's make an hypothesys:

I want to purchase a Plextor dvd rom that now is sold at 25 euro (hypothesys), with the new prices is:

25+28,98 =53,98 euro!


Italian article taken from tom's hardware.it

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What a thief government i have.

[MathiasOfAthens]

Maybe you could start modernizing your infrastructure with these taxes. This will destroy your consumer economy.

[DAVIDE]

Maybe you could start modernizing your infrastructure with these taxes. This will destroy your consumer economy.

You know what's the funny part? that Italian media didnt talk about this fact!!!!!!!! because the personal interests of Berlusconi are the interests of Italy!!!!!

Lucky me, i get my hardware via import or i go directly in Slovenia (like 80km far from my house)

[The Devil's Sergeant]

Italy has a 45% income tax and you are complaining this? Really!?

[Phier]

Italy has a 45% income tax and you are complaining this? Really!?

[Gaidin]

Italy has a 45% income tax and you are complaining this? Really!?

That's like saying America has a 35% income tax even though you have to be making ~372,000$ to be paying that...

[The Devil's Sergeant]

That's like saying America has a 35% income tax even though you have to be making ~372,000$ to be paying that...

Edit: The 43% tax rate kicks in at less than 75,000 euros. My small mistake corrected.

Source

[Gaidin]

Edit: The 43% tax rate kicks in at less than 75,000 euros. My small mistake corrected.

Source

Thanks for that. Wow. That's a helluva tax system. Losing what may as well be half your pay at 107000 USD is insane.

You only have to make about 55,000 a year to hit the 35% tax rate

Not for income taxes. Yes, there's quite a few taxes stacked on there, but I was talking about Income tax. Not everything and the kitchen sink, as the post I was replying to only discussed income tax.

[xcorps]

That's like saying America has a 35% income tax even though you have to be making ~372,000$ to be paying that...

You only have to make about 55,000 a year to hit the 35% tax rate

[Simon Cashmere]

Italy has a 45% income tax and you are complaining this? Really!?

Only if you actually pay your taxes

Italy, Greece, Spain, some people make tax evasion an artform. I've heard that in Greece they have lookouts for the tax inspectors so everyone gets out the cash register with the till roll on it when they are coming.

Governments at the moment are cash strapped. They will think of any inventive means they can of getting money. Electronics, luxury cars, land tax. However they can get some more money they will - because when the economy slows down so do their revenues by a long long way.

Have a look at this spreadsheet, shows you average salaries in 2005 for Italy, and how much they pay in tax:

http://www.worldsalaries.org/italy.shtml

[MathiasOfAthens]

Complain about the old feeling of so many Italian homes.

[Dr. Croccer]

That's quite bad.

Italy has a 45% income tax and you are complaining this? Really!?

I don't think there are many Italians in that bracket.

[The Devil's Sergeant]

Why? Aren't taxes for the benefit of society. Oh wait, taxes are only good when they are on somebody else. I get it.

[DAVIDE]

Why? Aren't taxes for the benefit of society. Oh wait, taxes are only good when they are on somebody else. I get it.

Well i'll be happy to pay +0,50 euro for every music album i get (if it's used to fight piracy) but +45% for a dvd recorder no! it's insane

And i doubt tax on electronics will benefit the community. Not in Italy for sure.. the land of salame minded people who continues to vote Berlusconi and the fellowship of the Race

[Dr. Croccer]

Why? Aren't taxes for the benefit of society. Oh wait, taxes are only good when they are on somebody else. I get it.

You do realize that there's a large difference between paying a few euros in taxes and increasing the price of hardware by 50%, right?

[DAVIDE]

You do realize that there's a large difference between paying a few euros in taxes and increasing the price of hardware by 50%, right?

exactly! some Italian comments about the article:

"what a crap. I have no words"
"THIEVES!"
"Considering what i'll pay, i'll download illegally.. SHAME!"

"I'll buy hardware abroad! ***** Berlusconi!"
"0,15 for every cd is insane!"
"You do something illegal? i do the same! Welcome to Italy, where 2+2=5!"
"i m tired of this country equal to a cloaca"

[The Devil's Sergeant]

You do realize that there's a large difference between paying a few euros in taxes and increasing the price of hardware by 50%, right?

Actually this little difference and it is quite irrelevant in any case. The hardware being taxed is only a tiny portion of his overall spending. That this piece of hardware went from 25 to 50 euros (a 100% increase BTW, not 50%) is quite insignificant to his spending on all goods, from food to housing clothing and so on. If the income tax went up a tiny fraction so that he had to exactly 25 euro more in tax, there would be no difference. From what I can tell David.cool is upset because this tax effects him in a way that it would effect someone else.

Until he realizes that taxes other people are paying that he benefiting from offends them just as much as this tax offends his sensibilities, I'm not sympathetic.

[Phier]

Until he realizes that taxes other people are paying that he benefiting from offends them just as much as this tax offends his sensibilities, I'm not sympathetic.

Do you expect them to get this nuance?

Outrageous taxes on stuff I don't use or can't afford:
Outrageous taxes on stuff I buy?:

[antares24]

well davide strangely () forgot to add that this tax is in a decree that is going to be discussed, so we'll see how it get modified.

Personally i'm against this tax as a matter of principle, on most things the tax it's very low but if they tax me for every digital memory i buy, taking for granted that i'm going to put something downloaded without paying it, they better legalize illegal download (it is de facto legalized, but if they actually enforce this tax they should make it official).

The only thing on which the tax is outrageously high is HDs, if it pass the only result would be that most people would buy HD online in other countries.

Still, everyone from consumers associations to producers has already said that they will contest this law in court. Considering that it seem to consider everyone a criminal downloading illegally i bet some judge will nullify it.

Actually this little difference and it is quite irrelevant in any case. The hardware being taxed is only a tiny portion of his overall spending. That this piece of hardware went from 25 to 50 euros (a 100% increase BTW, not 50%) is quite insignificant to his spending on all goods, from food to housing clothing and so on. If the income tax went up a tiny fraction so that he had to exactly 25 euro more in tax, there would be no difference. From what I can tell David.cool is upset because this tax effects him in a way that it would effect someone else.

Until he realizes that taxes other people are paying that he benefiting from offends them just as much as this tax offends his sensibilities, I'm not sympathetic.

I agree with your points. Still, most people pay between 27% and 38% of income tax, that's not that bad considering it include the 2 best health care in the world.
But i agree that is not a low tax level, but for how I see it the biggest problem isn't how much i'm taxed but how the state spend my taxmoney. On that i have a lot of complains to do.

That's pretty awful. I knew Italy wasn't the most liveable country, but that's very bad.

uh, well you know it wrong then, Italy was ranked as 10° country in the world for standard of living by the UN. Davide isn't exactly unbiased as he's the kind of person that would spit bile on his country on every occasion until there are people in power that he don't like. Sort of what many americans did in the Bush era.

But it's true that wages should be higher compared to the cost of living, but that is a general problem in the west, as the middle class everywhere has lost purchasing power on average in the last decades.

And that really explains why Italians don't like the fact that hardware is gonna be twice as expensive. That's a real bastard move by Berlusconi.

be serious, the fact that some unnecessary stuff is gonna cost a few tens of € more wouldn't change anyone life. The things that matter are rents, energy and gas bills, and the price of primary goods (food, petrol and similar stuff that you cannot live without).

Only if you actually pay your taxes

Italy, Greece, Spain, some people make tax evasion an artform. I've heard that in Greece they have lookouts for the tax inspectors so everyone gets out the cash register with the till roll on it when they are coming.

Governments at the moment are cash strapped. They will think of any inventive means they can of getting money. Electronics, luxury cars, land tax. However they can get some more money they will - because when the economy slows down so do their revenues by a long long way.

Have a look at this spreadsheet, shows you average salaries in 2005 for Italy, and how much they pay in tax:

http://www.worldsalaries.org/italy.shtml

and that is another problem, we have something like 20% of our economy in the black, hell when i'm in the south sometimes i have the impression that no one pay taxes at all. Letting damn tax evaders pay what's due will help a hell of a lot in lowering the general tax rate.

BTW i heard that in the USA the anti tax evasion agency has huge powers, is that true?

[Dr. Croccer]

Actually this little difference and it is quite irrelevant in any case. The hardware being taxed is only a tiny portion of his overall spending. That this piece of hardware went from 25 to 50 euros (a 100% increase BTW, not 50%) is quite insignificant to his spending on all goods, from food to housing clothing and so on. If the income tax went up a tiny fraction so that he had to exactly 25 euro more in tax, there would be no difference.

Except that Davidecool probably isn't paying 45% of his income in taxes (considering that you'd have to be very rich, which most Italians really are not), and even if he did, there's a large difference between paying a commonly accepted and accostumed 45% rate of your income, and a sudden increase of 50-100% in hardware prices.

From what I can tell David.cool is upset because this tax effects him in a way that it would effect someone else.

No, he's quite rightfully annoyed by the fact that Italian hardware is suddenly twice as expensive. Stop trying to hijack this thread into some self-pitying rant about the poor rich, which already has no basis, as most Italians pay a large percent of their income, and the upper class is very small.