Swebox General bodyguard infantry problem?bug?

**HistGamer** · January 18, 2010, 09:48 PM

Hi guys, i have just downloaded EB yesterday, and judging on first impression, the game is simply sublime... I have played lots of other different mods, notably viking invasions and the norman invasions, and i m glad to say-this mod seems to surpasses the best of the best. As such. thank you to the EB team who put it in phenomenal rate of hard work in developing this superb mod.

I have taken a special interest with the germans, since the vanilla RTW developers decided to colour code the germans with a pink colour, arguably and unconventional choice of colour for such fearsome and ruthless tribe. The Germans in EB is... awesome however, and their general bodyguard infantry seems--to stole my heart... everything from the beautiful feathery helmets, to the mail armour with a strap on shield and the furry cloaks.
Now, question- whenever i start a battle with these units, they seem to be holding swords, and when the battle begins and the close confrontations happens, half of them r holding their spears on top of the sheild(as if they r gonna use them as javelins), poking downwards to the enemy. Must I add that is a rather unique and eccentric funky looking fighting, but seems to get weird over time. I noticed that if I alt+attack with them, they tend to change back to swords or spears-vice versa. Hence, my question lies- is this normal, or is it just buggy, and if it is normal, does it change the attack speed or damge of the units with spear -vice -versa. Oh and, the germanic bodyguard seems to be rather weak(stats wise), in comparison to other factions Celts Casse 's elite units(NOT bodyguards), like the canutes druids and the champions of britons. WHy is that? And give me some opinions about how u think about this units? they seem pretty cool, and they r the bodyguard*****

thxs for reading

i am currently using EB1.0

**Brave Brave Sir Robin** · January 18, 2010, 11:54 PM

Well, the Germanic bodyguard, like all other units that use overhand spear and sword (Massilian Hoplites, Hypaspistai, Solduros, etc.) are somewhat buggy in terms of using sword and spear. From what I've noticed, they will use their swords when engaging the unit you tell them to attack. However if they get caught up in another unit, they will switch to spears. Clicking on the enemy will usually get swords out again but not always.

Difference between the weapons are in attack. Swords around 10, spears around 16 with no experience. However their swords have .225 lethality and the spears only have .13 so swords are more effective against infantry while spears are better anti-cav weapons.

And as to why the Germanic BG are weaker stat wise than elites of other nations...? Well there are several reasons. First of all, Germanic tribes were not particularly skilled metal workers while the Celts were some of the best during this time. Defense skill and attack should be similar yet the ability to make quality chain does not exist for the Sweboz. That said, Celtic elites are some of the best units in the game. Solduros, Carnute Cingetos, Rycalwrae and Kluddargos are all phenomonal units but very expensive. In terms of line units, your Germanic line units will beat basic Celtic line units unless of course the Celts have progressed to a point where they can produce Neitos.

**HistGamer** · January 19, 2010, 12:19 AM

Thanks Brave Brave Robin for your help, so just to clear things up, this germanic bodyguard infantry is NOT bugged yes?(with their sword and spear). If its not, I would quite like it, even when its clearly not stated that these units possess to weapons a primary and secondary, however the picture or unit card does show this units holding a pointed spear. If its not bugged, that would be great news, because they certainly looks a lot cooler with these overhand spears.

And to your answer regarding the troops of germania, was spot on... i pretty much dssect some elite units to compare with this Bodyguard infantry of Swebov,and found tht German bodyguard are actually VERY SKILLED fighters, much better then their elite counterpart-this is provened by their higher attack (14-13) and their enormous defense skill (a whopping 14, beating the other elites by HUGE numbers). This proved that germanic bodyguard are actualli very skilled and vicious fighters, but alas their weapons, armours and culture prevent them from topping their more civilizilled counterparts. Seems like the shield and armour bit is where the Celts or Britons win, which comes to another quesiton=D

Is defense skill entirely random or chance?IF so a highly defensive skilled warrior avoid let say projectiles?(javelins, missiles?) Does defense skill allow u to parry block or dodge the 'full damage or atatck"" of an close quartered opponent? And what about armour- is it fixed? If so does that mean armour> defense skill?

**bobbin** · January 19, 2010, 05:34 AM

Its not a bug it's how they were intended to fight, the only slight bug which also occurs with all of the other sword+spear armed units is their annoying habit of using exactly the wrong type of weapon when fighting enemies (using swords for Cavalry and spears for infantry, charging with spears instead of swords, defending with swords instead of spears when in guard mode) unless specifically ordered otherwise.

Defence skill and armour are set by values in the export_descr_unit file, defence skill increases with experience and armour with blacksmith upgrades. Defence skill, armour and the shield value are used in meele fighting while only the last two are used when being attacked with projectiles.

Armour is not nessesarly better that defence skill as it depends on who the unit is fighting, when fighting against enemies armed with armour piercing weapons the armour value is reduced by half, so when fighting these types you would want high defence skill values instead.

In summary: Armor - effective defence against non armour peircing (AP) weapons and missiles (note that slingers have AP projectiles)

Defence skill - effective defence in meele combat, not counted in missle defence.

Shield - effective defence in both meele and missle defence (note that the sheild defence value is directional, only counting against attacks from the front and left hand side), it is not affected be AP weapons.

**athanaric** · January 19, 2010, 10:55 AM

Originally Posted by HistGamer

And to your answer regarding the troops of germania, was spot on... i pretty much dssect some elite units to compare with this Bodyguard infantry of Swebov,and found tht German bodyguard are actually VERY SKILLED fighters, much better then their elite counterpart-this is provened by their higher attack (14-13) and their enormous defense skill (a whopping 14, beating the other elites by HUGE numbers). This proved that germanic bodyguard are actualli very skilled and vicious fighters, but alas their weapons, armours and culture prevent them from topping their more civilizilled counterparts. Seems like the shield and armour bit is where the Celts or Britons win, which comes to another quesiton=D

Germanic Bodyguard also have "very good" stamina, which is highly unusual for a heavy infantry unit, and 18 morale, which is on par with the best bodyguard units in the game. Germanic troops on the whole have very good morale and stamina, and their only weaknesses are poor protection against missiles and lack of powerful long range missile troops.