Homosexuals in the american army.

[Cozur]

How on earth can it be that the americans does not allow homosexuals in the army? It's weird, isn't it?

If you look at the ablest commanders of history, a surprisingly large amount have either been gay, or surrounded by rumours that they where - one would think that would speak in favour of NOT discriminating against people who like their own sex.

[Dr Zoidberg]

Um... you're wrong.

Homosexuals are allowed into the US military. However, there is a little policy called "Don't ask, don't tell." Basically put, as long as you don't say you're homosexual, the military won't ask if you are. Whether that is discriminatory, that's another issue.

But to reiterate my original point: You. Are. Wrong.

[Fiyenyaa]

Whether that is discriminatory, that's another issue.

Given that if someone finds out and reports you, you will be discharged; I'd say that was pretty much textbook discrimination.

[Tacitursa]

Are homosexuals as head strong as straight males?

Probaly stereotyping but of all the gay people i have seen in real life they are alot more emotional than straight guys and get upset over the smallest things.

I dunno i cant imagine a gay guy keeping it together if his team mates were being killed i just imagine them start crying and just get more people killed. Or gay guy captured by the enemy would he give up info if interrogated?

I dont mean to offend anyone ive just never met any strong headed homosexual males.

[Dr Zoidberg]

Are homosexuals as head strong as straight males?

Probaly stereotyping but of all the gay people i have seen in real life they are alot more emotional than straight guys and get upset over the smallest things.

I dunno i cant imagine a gay guy keeping it together if his team mates were being killed i just imagine them start crying and just get more people killed. Or gay guy captured by the enemy would he give up info if interrogated?

I dont mean to offend anyone ive just never met any strong headed homosexual males.

Oh please... you are stereotyping. You think every straight bloke in the military was "mr mucho" before he joined? Of course not. Physical and mental strengthening is part of the training process. I've watched two brothers got through it over the years, they both came out more mentally and physically capable then when they went in.

Furthermore, homosexual or not, if you didn't meet the minimum requirements for entry, you wouldn't be allowed in. Therefore, be you straight/gay/man/women/zebra etc. if you got to basic, then obviously you met the required standards.

Furthermore, you make it sound like only homosexuals would cry at witnessing the horrors of war. My grandfather was a WW2 veteran, who also fathered three children and became a successful engineer. He cried when retelling me stories from the war... you going to tell me he was gay?

[removeduser_487563287433]

Well, I don't think he is, really. The Don't Ask Don't Tell policy is just a cowardly compramise of a homophobic organisation.

[Dr Zoidberg]

Well, I don't think he is, really. The Don't Ask Don't Tell policy is just a cowardly compramise of a homophobic organisation.

His question was: "how on earth can it be that the americans does not allow homosexuals in the army?" Homosexuals ARE allowed to serve in the US; so he is wrong.

As I already said, the merits of "Don't ask, don't tell" are another issue. Personally, I don't see why a homosexual shouldn't be allowed to serve openly.

[God-Emperor of Mankind]

Personally, I don't see why a homosexual shouldn't be allowed to serve openly.

Because if he is a open homosexual he will for some reason rape the other guys in the squad in the shower but if he is not open with it then he will restrain himself.
Or something like that. That seems to be the gist of it judging from these forums.

[MaximiIian]

The Don't Ask Don't Tell policy is just a cowardly compromise of a homophobic organisation.

Not really. It was a political compromise, by politicians. Several general officers in the US Military have gone on record stating that DADT is a stupid policy and homosexual servicemen should not be discriminated against.

[Dr Zoidberg]

Personally, I think those who oppose open serving in the military, don't give the military enough credit. They said women wouldn't be able to serve alongside men without causing problems. And before that it was blacks alongside whites. But despite all the nay-sayers and "prophecies of doom" the military adapted and advanced.

Was it achieved without problems and mistakes? Of course not. But it was achieved and I believe that the military is better because of it. And the same goes for my (Australian) military just as much as it does for the US or any other modern military force.

[boofhead]

I suppose this is all to do with whether or not a person will be able to his job effectively under the potential extreme circumstances.

e.g. someone's lover gets blasted in front of their face etc

I guess this is why there are strict rules re ''bedding'' people, that apply to heteros as well.

See, no homophobia here.

EDIT: As a straight dude a guy, soldier, has to live and shower with girlz. That's okay, right?

[Dr Zoidberg]

EDIT: As a straight dude a guy, soldier, has to live and shower with girlz. That's okay, right?

Can't see why not, it'd just be like in Starship Troopers.

[boofhead]

Can't see why not, it'd just be like in Starship Troopers.

Although I'm half distracted and have a red face, let's go kick arse!

[Manco]

I suppose this is all to do with whether or not a person will be able to his job effectively under the potential extreme circumstances.

e.g. someone's lover gets blasted in front of their face etc

I guess this is why there are strict rules re ''bedding'' people, that apply to heteros as well.

See, no homophobia here.

EDIT: As a straight dude a guy, soldier, has to live and shower with girlz. That's okay, right?

There already are regulations against fraternization, so the 'lover in peril' argument isn't applicable as long as regs are correctly followed. And indeed the situation is no different than in mixed gender units.

Well it wouldnt i think thats the point from the armies perspective. And yeah i was talking about the girly overly-overmotional type. Ive never actually met any of the latter so it was just my observation

You probably have met them, just never realized they were gay. Or do you go around telling everyone: 'Hi, I like shagging girls. Do you like to shag girls or do you prefer taking it up the bum?'

[Poach]

Wizav, gay men tend to fall into two (yes, I'm using a very broad brush here but stay with me) categories. The very femenine type, who act like women, and the more normal type, who act the way they would whether gay or straight.

Any gay men you ever meet in the military will be of the latter. The girly, overly-emotional (and if I may add a personal comment, extremely irritating) gay guys would never pass basic, if they somehow had a desire to join in the first place. No need to worry about them breaking into tears from gunfire. How would forcing them to hide their homosexuality turn them headstrong anyway?

I don't understand the US military mentality over "Don't ask, don't tell" either, but I'm a European and as you know we're all ultra-tolerant socialists with a tendancy to go mad every few generations and turn Fascist or something like that. I suppose it's done so that your average 18-21yr old infantryman won't let his (inherent, 99% of guys are a little at that age) homophoia get the better of him when living in close quarters with a man they know to be gay.

[Tacitursa]

Any gay men you ever meet in the military will be of the latter. The girly, overly-emotional (and if I may add a personal comment, extremely irritating) gay guys would never pass basic, if they somehow had a desire to join in the first place. No need to worry about them breaking into tears from gunfire. How would forcing them to hide their homosexuality turn them headstrong anyway?

Well it wouldnt i think thats the point from the armies perspective. And yeah i was talking about the girly overly-overmotional type. Ive never actually met any of the latter so it was just my observation.

But i can understand concern of the army if let's say one of the overly emotional types happened to pass basic training and kept it hidden. Would they eventually cause problems for the team? what if they break during covering fire in a retreat or something.

I think it also effects morale. I mean i personally would feel more confident having a hard as nails zero emotion marine covering me than a homosexual that has the same training. I mean they might both be identical after training but do they share the same breaking point? I dont think they do tbh.

I think there's a big difference between keeping your emotions under controll and not having many in the first place. And that difference im sure counts for hell of alot when bullets are flying past your head.

[Leutrim]

Well it wouldnt i think thats the point from the armies perspective. And yeah i was talking about the girly overly-overmotional type. Ive never actually met any of the latter so it was just my observation.

But i can understand concern of the army if let's say one of the overly emotional types happened to pass basic training and kept it hidden. Would they eventually cause problems for the team? what if they break during covering fire in a retreat or something.

I think it also effects morale. I mean i personally would feel more confident having a hard as nails zero emotion marine covering me than a homosexual that has the same training. I mean they might both be identical after training but do they share the same breaking point? I dont think they do tbh.

I think there's a big difference between keeping your emotions under controll and not having many in the first place. And that difference im sure counts for hell of alot when bullets are flying past your head.

First of, nice discussion, enjoyed the read so far

And secondly, I agree with you here. However, I think people of any sexuality should be allowed to try out for the military, and if they pass basics, then fair enough. However, there should be a certain technique to determine breaking point, aprox, in the basics training. This would give a slightly clearer idea of the soldiers who are more prone to have a mental break down after seeing a fellow soldier get mauled by gunfire.

[Fiyenyaa]

Well it wouldnt i think thats the point from the armies perspective. And yeah i was talking about the girly overly-overmotional type. Ive never actually met any of the latter so it was just my observation.

I guarentee you that you have. Gay people don't have a big 'G' tattooed to their head, and not do they greet every new aquintence with "Hello there, I'm gay." Any person you have ever met could be gay.

I think it also effects morale. I mean i personally would feel more confident having a hard as nails zero emotion marine covering me than a homosexual that has the same training. I mean they might both be identical after training but do they share the same breaking point? I dont think they do tbh.
I think there's a big difference between keeping your emotions under controll and not having many in the first place. And that difference im sure counts for hell of alot when bullets are flying past your head.

Gay people don't have inherently more emotions than other people. Stop watching Will and Grace and start watching real life.

[MaximiIian]

Well it wouldnt i think thats the point from the armies perspective. And yeah i was talking about the girly overly-overmotional type. Ive never actually met any of the latter so it was just my observation.

But i can understand concern of the army if let's say one of the overly emotional types happened to pass basic training and kept it hidden. Would they eventually cause problems for the team? what if they break during covering fire in a retreat or something.

You act like such behaviours are solely in the realm of homosexuals. This is far, far, far from true.

I, for example, am overly emotional. I overreact to many things and I act on impulse; I break down or completely freeze up under stress; I have mood swings and am easily depressed. I'm completely heterosexual, and have an anxiety disorder.

But, according to you, I'd have to be gay to have these behavioural traits. Which makes zero ing sense.

[Tacitursa]

But, according to you, I'd have to be gay to have these behavioural traits. Which makes zero ing sense.

Yeah thats what i said good job......