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Thread: Irish "Clans"???

  1. #21

    Default Re: Irish "Clans"???

    well your talkin about the irish clans aswell the other two factions in ireland would be leinster and meath because at this time in history ireland was divided into 5 kingdoms ulster munster leinster connacht and meath its aint a priority just if you needed any ideas that would be the way to go

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  2. #22
    PhilipO'Hayda's Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: Irish "Clans"???

    Quote Originally Posted by Irish00Barbarian View Post
    well your talkin about the irish clans aswell the other two factions in ireland would be leinster and meath because at this time in history ireland was divided into 5 kingdoms ulster munster leinster connacht and meath its aint a priority just if you needed any ideas that would be the way to go
    think your off there. by 300 years

    Irish Historical adviser for Albion:Total war


  3. #23
    The Border Reiver's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: Irish "Clans"???

    think your off there. by 300 years
    I must agree, this was my thoughts when I read this.

  4. #24

    Default Re: Irish "Clans"???

    I'm quite glad that I finally noticed this thread as I was a bit worried how the KOTI 1st preview listed "Ireland" as the only playable Irish faction. It's good to hear that there will at least be two clans represented, and I agree that four would be ideal once you've moved past the first release.

    Can we expect the Irish units to be redone/reskinned as well, or is that simply not a priority?

  5. #25

    Default Re: Irish "Clans"???

    I'm not sure that more than one faction will feature in the very first (beta) release but we will eventually have 2 or more. These will of course require skinning etc.

  6. #26

    Default Re: Irish "Clans"???

    Quote Originally Posted by The Bruce View Post
    I'm not sure that more than one faction will feature in the very first (beta) release but we will eventually have 2 or more. These will of course require skinning etc.
    That's fine, I'm just glad to know that eventually there will be more than just the generic vanilla faction.

  7. #27

    Default Re: Irish "Clans"???

    You need Kingdom of Thomond for the third faction. Brian Boru's kingdom...
    Oh, for Heaven's sake, now you're being deliberately stupid.
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  8. #28

    Default Re: Irish "Clans"???

    Brian Boru would have been dead for nearly 300 years by the time our mod starts but his descendants will probably feature as previously mentioned.

    The O'Briens will most likely be represented as 'Munster'. Historically Munster had already disintegrated into the Kingdom of Thomond (O'Briens), the Kingdom of Desmond (MacCarthys) and the Kingdom of Ormond (Kennedys) and then seen English incursions. However I think 'Munster' is the best faction name if we are to have a faction in the region.

    One of the problems with Ireland in this period (1294 onwards) is that there are lots of minor factions but it is hard to pick ones worthy of inclusion.

    The O'Neills (Ulster) certainly warrant inclusion and perhaps Connacht also, given their actions during the invasion by Edward Bruce (1315). The O'Briens are probably the best choice for a southern 'Munster' faction. The rest of Ireland should be under English or rebel control I reckon.





    We are far from finishing work on the new Scottish Clans so it will be some time before we get to the additional Irish factions. If we release a version of the mod before these additional factions are completed then one Irish faction will be present (howsoever named).

    So, plenty of time for debate before things are finalised. However I think 3 Irish factions are enough (i.e. two new ones and another being 'Ireland' renamed).

    We welcome any suggestions that can be historically supported. However please remember we are concerned with accurately portraying affairs as they stood in 1294, not before.
    Last edited by The Bruce; August 17, 2010 at 04:08 AM.

  9. #29

    Default Re: Irish "Clans"???

    Yes, I agree that given the time period, the O'Neills, the O'Briens,and prehaps Connacht are probably the only three major Irish factions that could be included during this period.

    Have you given any thought to the earlier suggestion that the Hiberno-Norman lords be represented as an independent faction with a strong alliance with/as a protectorate of England? Given how busy Edward I was in Wales, Scotland, France, and England itself, he really didn't have much to do with events in Ireland, and the fact that they weren't receiving that much support from the crown at this point could be represented by making them a relatively independent faction. The only issue is whether or not this faction will remain allied to the English crown, or, given the AI, will it attack its own rulers. But, personally I would think that since they won't share any land borders, the likelihood of them attacking each other is much lower than one would expect.
    Last edited by WinsingtonIII; August 18, 2010 at 08:23 AM.



  10. #30

    Default Re: Irish "Clans"???

    I think if we have Munster and Ulster as playable factions and Connacht as an emergent non-playable faction it would probably be enough.

    Although the idea of an Anglo-Norman faction has some merit I think it would be better to leave these elements as part of the English faction.

    Bruce's attempts at opening a second front in Ireland required that England responded to this threat. A separate English faction would not perceive this as a threat even if it were allied to the Anglo-Norman Irish faction. This could perhaps be overcome with scripting but to be honest we have enough on our plate implementing the factions we already have! Maybe one day ...

  11. #31

    Default Re: Irish "Clans"???

    Good point, and yes, it is far more important to focus on full factions first than to spend time working out a separate Norman faction in Ireland. +rep



  12. #32
    smoesville's Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: Irish "Clans"???

    I don't know how others feel about this but are the Irish in koti going to be vanilla kingdoms skins? In particular i'm refering to the deisi javillinmen and galloglaigh but also the ostmen and irish squires etc. The deisi especially have a weird green caste to their skin and are also extremely pale skinned. I've taken to swapping in the merc/rebel versions of the troops because imo the pure green and pristine white doesn't have the right feel compared to the rest of the mod. In fairness, how do they get the whites so white when they can't even get some shoes. I just thought i'd mention it. Some of the troops, bodyguard for example, are fine as they are in kots3 because we assume troops of that social level could afford such attire but not really the peasents.
    Last edited by smoesville; November 08, 2010 at 03:30 PM.
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  13. #33
    The Border Reiver's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: Irish "Clans"???

    We'll be using the Iriosh skins created by Lord Condormanius which goes a long way to fixing these original skins. Some of his skins (not all) were used in KOTS3.

    The Irish certainly don't have any tartans in this next version.

  14. #34
    King Patrick's Avatar Tiro
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    Default Re: Irish "Clans"???

    The idea of adding an Anglo-Norman faction allied to England is a good idea. I have a interesting faction that you could introduce. It is unique because it was ruled by an oligarchy of Merchant Families and it was quite independent from England up until the 17 century. Here is some info about it:

    The Tribes of Galway (Treibheanna na Gaillimhe) were fourteen merchant families who dominated the political, commercial, and social life of the city of Galway in western Ireland between the mid-13th and late-19th centuries. The families were: Athy, Blake, Bodkin, Browne, D'Arcy, Deane, Ffont, Ffrench, Joyce, Kirwan, Lynch, Martyn, Morris and Skerrett.

    During the Middle Ages, Galway was ruled by an oligarchy of these fourteen merchant families (12 of Anglo-Norman origin and 2 of Irish origin), the 'Tribes of Galway. The city thrived on international trade. In the Middle Ages, it was the principal Irish port for trade with Spain and France, being the main source of trade to the Western Isles, Scotland, during the Lordship of the Isles.

    I will be honest, I copied most of this of Wikipedia (It would take me to much time to type this and I would probably stray of the trail a bit). Depending on how big the region of Connacht is, you can squeeze it in their to Galway.

    I have more information on it if you would like to hear more. I know a lot about this because I am descended from the Deane Family.







  15. #35

    Default Re: Irish "Clans"???

    As I stated before,

    Bruce's attempts at opening a second front in Ireland required that England responded to this threat. A separate English faction would not perceive this as a threat even if it were allied to the Anglo-Norman Irish faction. This could perhaps be overcome with scripting but to be honest we have enough on our plate implementing the factions we already have! Maybe one day ...
    If we ever add an Anglo-Irish faction (we have no plans to) then the de Burghs would be the first choice probably. They held Galway at the time of our mod so perhaps the merchant families you mention could feature in this faction. It appears that the autonomous status of Galway only came about after 1333. This is too late for our mod which starts about 40 years earlier. In any case I doubt the inclusion of a faction based on a single settlement is warranted. Interesting slice of history though.
    Last edited by The Bruce; November 28, 2010 at 11:08 PM.

  16. #36
    King Patrick's Avatar Tiro
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    Default Re: Irish "Clans"???

    Just thinking loudly







  17. #37

    Default Re: Irish "Clans"???

    No worries

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