Irish "Clans"???

[Ceasar Gubius]

Hey, I'm curious, seeing there will be multiple Scottish clans in this mod, is there any plans to add the Irish clans of the era? It was their division that constantly disabled their union... I think the dominant clans of the era are....

O'Brian (Munster)
O'Niell (Ulster)
O'Donnell (Donegal)

And here are some more Irish Chieftains
O'Connor (Sligo)
O'Rourke (Leitrim)
O'Reilly (Cavan)
MacCartan (Down)
MacMohan (Monaghan)
Maguire (Fermanagh)
O'Hanlon (Armagh)

I mean, obviosly you couldn't be expected to add all fo these ingame. But if you wish to accurately potray Ireland, add multiple rival realms betraying each other to the English ...

[Ballacraine]

Well, I like that idea.

.......but then again I am not doing all the work!

I don't know how many playable factions are supported, but I would have thought that was viable.

Balla.

[The Border Reiver]

Yesh, it's actually a very good idea and one that has already been discussed. I've added the Kingdom of Munster (O'Brians) and the other will be the Kingdom of Ulster (O'Niell's).

[Ceasar Gubius]

Yesh, it's actually a very good idea and one that has already been discussed. I've added the Kingdom of Munster (O'Brians) and the other will be the Kingdom of Ulster (O'Niell's).

That's great! What about adding a Kalmar Union script, that whoever dominates Ireland, can transform into the "Kingdom of Ireland" faction ?

[smoesville]

Kalmar takes up an extra faction slot which is generally bad though i don't actually know how many factions there are so it could work. Or it could be a waste of a slot

[The Border Reiver]

Another good idea, but we are one step ahead of you. The Kalmar Union script is being used to unite the Scottish clans, and unfortunately you can't have two Kalmar Union scripts run concurrently

I had really thought about making Ireland a bit more complex, but at this moment it will remain with Munster and Ulster starting as allies, but who knows after that?

[Ballacraine]

I can appreciate that it would be a great deal more work, but if the faction slots are available, I am sure it would make for an even more interesting & varied campaign game, if there were more Irish clans included.

Even if it were in a later revision.

Balla.

[Ceasar Gubius]

Ah, ok. Makes sense why Scotland would take priority .... Well, if you want more historical yet efficant gameplay, you may want to add Connaught as a realm as well. The rulers would probably be the O'Connors... They were another major independant Irish realm at the time !

[The Border Reiver]

Balla and Ceasar Gubius.....I am also of the opinion that another two factions in Ireland would probably make it perfect I'm actually not not ruling it out yet.
It's not a priority, but I feel that this would make the mod well balanced to have a proper struggle for power in Ireland.

I'm curious, if we have Munster (south = 2 regions), Ulster (North = 4 regions) and Connaught (west = 2 regions) in the mod (we still have room for three new reigons as well), in terms of campaign map balance versus historical accuracy, what would the best placement of a fourth faction be? and more importantly who should they be?

The only thing really holding this whole process back (because we have the faction slots) is the amount of skinning for units/banners/icons involved with adding more factions...and someone with a keen interest in Ireland and the ability to mod the above?

[PhilipO'Hayda]

OOOO!! all read's well and hopefully this well be unreal!

[Ceasar Gubius]

Well, if your not too worried about historical accurateness, you could include the "Earldom of Ormond" in eastern Ireland under the Butler family. Eventhough the Butlers were "English", it would work out well to have them there.

Ingame, England would ignore her Irish territories because of her fight with Scotland, Wales, and France... SO it would be mor logical to have a Anglo-Norman faction in Ireland that is an Ally of England instead of England herself...

[The Border Reiver]

Yes, I understand what you mean here, but we want to keep this as accurate as possible. The idea of giving the English an Ally similar to the "thirteen colonies" in ETW is very valid and tempting.....as long as they never go to war.

We'll just have to wait and see ow far I get with adding extra Irish Factions, but I guess if it isn't an Anglo Norman faction perhaps three Irish Factions in total may be the limit.

[Ballacraine]

Well at least that will give some flavour to it!

Balla.

[Ceasar Gubius]

Yes, I understand what you mean here, but we want to keep this as accurate as possible. The idea of giving the English an Ally similar to the "thirteen colonies" in ETW is very valid and tempting.....as long as they never go to war.

We'll just have to wait and see ow far I get with adding extra Irish Factions, but I guess if it isn't an Anglo Norman faction perhaps three Irish Factions in total may be the limit.

That's cool, but something to consider. I'm sure that if one of the Anglo-Norman nobles of Ireland had become dominate enough, he and England would go to blows. England was constantly at odds with their own nobles in Ireland (Strongbow for instnance). Also, this is Feudal Europe, not the age of enlightenment ! This makes things easy

[The Border Reiver]

That's cool, but something to consider.

Yes, you bring up some good points and things to consider for later on...nothing is of course ever totally ruled out

[PhilipO'Hayda]

That's cool, but something to consider. I'm sure that if one of the Anglo-Norman nobles of Ireland had become dominate enough, he and England would go to blows. England was constantly at odds with their own nobles in Ireland (Strongbow for instnance). Also, this is Feudal Europe, not the age of enlightenment ! This makes things easy

this is what alot of English kings and queens have alwas been scaryed of and once or twice has happened in Irish Hisorty.

[Aéd Liath]

The Irish clans idea is brilliant, in my opinion anyway.
I'm pretty familiar with Edward Bruce's invasion of Ireland and the situation in Ireland at the time. O'Neill and O'Donnell were still quite powerful in the North, the O'Hanlons and MacArtains were doing alright too. In Thomond (north Munster) the O'Briens were dominant, the inroads in to the provence being made by the de Clares were reveresed in 1318, during Edward Bruce's invasion. In Desmond (south Munster) the MacCarthy were doing well, particularly so in Kerry and west Cork. . In Connaught the O'Conors were in a bad way following the de Burgh advances into the provence, but they were still a force to be reckoned with as were the MacDermots. In Leinster, the the O'Byrnes, MacMurroughs and O'Tooles were present in the Wicklow region, the O'Conor Faly, O'Carrols and O'Moores were to the west.
If you're thinking of adding an Anglo-Irish faction, the two main ones would be the de Burghs and Butlers, though the FitzGeralds and de Clares were also strong at the time. I'd probably just call the faction the "Lordship of Ireland" and give them the corresponding territory.

[Ballacraine]

Very interesting info there.

Thanks.

Balla.

[Aéd Liath]

at this moment it will remain with Munster and Ulster starting as allies, but who knows after that?

Just to point out that its a reasonably accurate state of affairs since your mod starts in 1258. Brian O'Neill, Hugh O'Conor and Tadg O'Brien agreed to make Brian the High-King. That represented three of the most powerful clans, from all areas of the island being united to drive out the English.

[The Bruce]

Kingdom of the Isles will now start in 1294.