Egypt is blocking the flow of goods into gaza

[handsome pete]

What do people think about egypt drilling metal poles into the ground to block of the network of tunnels used to pass under the border?

[MathiasOfAthens]

Uh, the tunnels deliver weapons not food.

My mistake, the food that is delivered through the tunnels is delivered with weapons too. The food is of course sold on the black market. Lets not ignore the fact that both Egypt and Israel deliver legal Aid to the people of Gaza.

[handsome pete]

i really don't know that much about it which is why i posted this thread. is there any way to know what the composition is. is a high percentage goods flowing in weapons. it sounds like a good thing to do if its part of a bigger plan, but why is egypt doing this anyway. is it because they support abbas.

to be honest it seems like it would be better if those people could just be relocated away from a border that will always lead to violence and put somewhere else in the world where the children could have something much more promising.

[MathiasOfAthens]

There are a lot of factions in Gaza, Hamas may be the ruling faction but there are others that tend to like more direct action against Israel. They build these tunnels and then use them to import weapons, mostly rockets which they can use to lob into Israel.

Relocating the civilians sounds easy enough but in reality its not. Who does the relocating and what if they dont want to relocate. The people live in Gaza and currently Hamas rules Gaza and Hamas would very much like its people leaving. The violence will be where the people are. Move the people to the west bank and violence will spring up there when a massive influx of refugees arrive.

Egypt will support anything that leads to less violence along its border. The importation of weapons into gaza destabilizes the region and leads to refugees entering Egypt, illegally, and that hurts egypt financially.

[handsome pete]

but what if they offered people money, 10,000 dollars a head if your willing to take a transport to the west bank. surely hamas wouldn't be able to stop people from taking up the offer. surely they're going to try and deter people, but are you saying that they would use violence. yes the violence would follow them, but if the violence were all located in the west bank, surely israel would be less vulnerable to rocket attacks from the west bank, and it would help isolate the problem to one border. it might sound like a pretty major thing to do, but how long are the tensions going to persist, probably for fifty years at least.

[Surgeon]

Egypt has every right to block off those tunnels. There's a reason they blocked off the above-ground part of the border in the first place.

[Tiberios]

Egypt has every right to block off those tunnels. There's a reason they blocked off the above-ground part of the border in the first place.

Yes, exactly.

[Giuliano Taverna]

Um... good smuggling is bad?

[Poet]

Yes but there are some peasants on TWC who think that Egyptian Govt. can kill Coptic Christians for religion's sake.And not only this a few days ago Egypt stopped a food caravan going to Gaza from Europe without any valid legal reason.And yes whom to blame when we Muslims are ourselves so cruel, shameless and ruthless for each others.

[Giuliano Taverna]

Yes but there are some peasants on TWC who think that Egyptian Govt. can kill Coptic Christians for religion's sake.And not only this a few days ago Egypt stopped a food caravan going to Gaza from Europe without any valid legal reason.And yes whom to blame when we Muslims are ourselves so cruel, shameless and ruthless for each others.

I can't see the justification for stopping food shipments. Even if you have qualms with the elected government, its people shouldn't be punished. If for no other reason than not all of them voted for the current regime.

In Iraq we made the mistake of leaving the government intact after the first gulf war and imposing economic sanctions that caused the country to essentially decay, making the inevitable war and its aftermath much more difficult that it need otherwise have been. The lesson of that should be clear, sanctions are an assault on society not on a government.

[Carach]

so uhh, egypt continues to be angered over Israel's blockade of Gaza, by now blocking the tunnels that supply a large part of its food.

They should of gone the route HAMAS took and rolled in there with guns and demanded taxation on them so they could make some $$$

[jankren]

The reason Egypt is blockading Palestine is because Israel kept on whining about Egypt not doing anything to stop the smuggling of goods from Egypt into Palestine.

Egypt loses nothing if they keep the border open. They just wanna make Israel happy for whatever reason.

DOWN WITH MUBARAK!

[Carach]

The reason Egypt is blockading Palestine is because Israel kept on whining about Egypt not doing anything to stop the smuggling of goods from Egypt into Palestine.

Egypt loses nothing if they keep the border open. They just wanna make Israel happy for whatever reason.

DOWN WITH MUBARAK!

apparently u have no knowledge of international politics and relations.

That or you're intentionally oversimplifying to a criminal extent

[roy34543]

The reason Egypt is blockading Palestine is because Israel kept on whining about Egypt not doing anything to stop the smuggling of goods from Egypt into Palestine.

Egypt loses nothing if they keep the border open. They just wanna make Israel happy for whatever reason.

DOWN WITH MUBARAK!

Are you serious?
the entire population of gaza flooding into egypt is Israels "Best-case scenario" by a long-shot. (well..Among the realistic ones anyway) Can you seriously imagine no reason why the egyptian government wouldnt want to have several hundred thousand palestinians demanding a repeat of 1979 ?
Anyway, on the one hand smuggling in luxury products and food (food to a lesser extent really. There "would" be enough food in the gaza strip, but hamas stockpiles it and stops it from getting to anyone who isnt a loyal supporter) can be benevolent, on the other hand many smugglers charge ridicolous prices anyway, and avoid getting food instead getting luxury products that are much more profitable which are then sold to the few remaining people in gaza that actually have a decent amount of money left.

[jankren]

Are you serious?
the entire population of gaza flooding into egypt is Israels "Best-case scenario" by a long-shot. (well..Among the realistic ones anyway) Can you seriously imagine no reason why the egyptian government wouldnt want to have several hundred thousand palestinians demanding a repeat of 1979 ?
Anyway, on the one hand smuggling in luxury products and food (food to a lesser extent really. There "would" be enough food in the gaza strip, but hamas stockpiles it and stops it from getting to anyone who isnt a loyal supporter) can be benevolent, on the other hand many smugglers charge ridicolous prices anyway, and avoid getting food instead getting luxury products that are much more profitable which are then sold to the few remaining people in gaza that actually have a decent amount of money left.

You are right. Open border will put the burden on Egypt instead of Israel.

But Egypt's decision to get serious in clamping down on smuggling from Egypt is indeed due to pressure from Israel.

Egypt could care less about the Palestinians smuggling weapons to use on Israel.

[roy34543]

You are right. Open border will put the burden on Egypt instead of Israel.

But Egypt's decision to get serious in clamping down on smuggling from Egypt is indeed due to pressure from Israel.

Egypt could care less about the Palestinians smuggling weapons to use on Israel.

But the tunnels smuggle people too. Besides that they do care about weapons being on the black market in their country, and they are afraid that if too many people sympathize with the palestinians it could lead to a backlash against the current egyptian government. They dont want gazans freely walking around egypt and socializing with everyone .

[Poet]

Jankren is right, whatever legal or illegal, stopping that food means starving their own brothers and humans, Afghan refugees are more than 3000000 in Pakistan but we are not sending them back by force because we know this would ruin whatever they have on the name of life, and what about that food and aid caravan from Europe ? was that also illegal ?

[roy34543]

Jankren is right, whatever legal or illegal, stopping that food means starving their own brothers and humans, Afghan refugees are more than 3000000 in Pakistan but we are not sending them back by force because we know this would ruin whatever they have on the name of life, and what about that food and aid caravan from Europe ? was that also illegal ?

I dont think you really understand.
If egypt wants to send food it will send food publicly, that means their government gets all the credit.
Keeping the tunnel open just means more palestinians entering egypt, more illegal labourers, more guns on the market ...There is no benefit to the egyptian government to keeping the tunnels there. The fact that Israel wants them closed is just a bonus, They have enough reason to close them down as it is. Apart from that, the tunnels also serve as giant criminal hideaways, if youve killed or stolen something just go into the tunnels and pay hamas, and the egyptian police can do nothing about it.
And trying to plea upon the mercy of the egyptian government is a bit lame, considering they have no objection to jailing any political dissidents, let alone palestinians that hate the current egyptian government.

And any ing sources backing your claim that Hamas gives all food to their supporters, if you do not forget they were elected by majority of Palestinians voters.They are Palestinian Government of Gaza,You accept this or not depends on how much resist before bias you can.

You cant enact any laws without calling a parliment and voting on the laws..thats called dictatorship. Doesnt matter if you have a presumed majority, since some parlimentarians can defect (Though i admit most of them are in Israeli jail anyway , doesnt matter though. they still need a majority among remaining MP's)
Besides that though they got a majority of seats, they only got 44.5% of the vote. thats not a majority of palestinians . (just slightly more then fatah, which got 41.43%)

[Carach]

Jankren is right, whatever legal or illegal, stopping that food means starving their own brothers and humans, Afghan refugees are more than 3000000 in Pakistan but we are not sending them back by force because we know this would ruin whatever they have on the name of life, and what about that food and aid caravan from Europe ? was that also illegal ?

Thats not entirely true of the reality in Pakistan/Afghanistan, Poet

[removeduser_052420]

, Afghan refugees are more than 3000000 in Pakistan but we are not sending them back by force

We should have though. Most of the afghans in Pakistan are nothing but criminals.