About Longspears

[Nex Sui]

I've been wondering about the longspears most nations deploy, they stand in formations that allow a spearwall to be made, but I saw my friend play recently and just before his enemy was in reach of his spearmen, he sent them to charge, causing them to raise their spears into the air, this makes me wonder whats better, keeping the spearwall intact or take use of the charge bonus, what do you guys think?

(P.S. the spears im thinking of is those used in Phalanx such as Spartans, macedonians and in this case, Carthagos spearmen).

[Zen1986]

Keeping the spear wall intact is better, although I don't know the stats off by heart. as soon as you charge troops out, You automatically create a gap in your larger line although the AI is really thick and wouldn't exploit it. plus as soon as your spears are raised you are vunerable to cavalry.

[Xellos_Moon]

I think thats a bad strat. Men in phalanx formations get a huge defense bonus and its really not worth for a small charge bonus

[Nex Sui]

I think thats a bad strat. Men in phalanx formations get a huge defense bonus and its really not worth for a small charge bonus

just what I thought to, breaking what has got to be one of the most effective defences in order to charge just dosent add up in my mind.

[wierdo5000]

The whole thing with this is, what do you want from your phalanxes? maneuverablity and offense at the sacrifice of defensive bonus? or defensive bonus at the sacrifice of a charge bonus and manueverability? Personally, for the phalanxes of the selucids and macedonians (the ones with super long spears), this tactic fails so hard, due to the lack of large shields and a short sword. However for Hoplites, charging might work slightly better, depending on who youre engaging. The charge bonus for both are around 5 or 4. However you lose their purpose which is the phalanx.
Meanwhile if you array in a phalanx, you get a great defensive bonus, and also you are able to "poke" the enemy safely from behind your long spears or pikes. On top of that, you get a great offensive weapon, the spear.
Therefore, use the phalanx for most situations. The phalanx is the staple of hoplites and pikemen alike. However, when trying to get somewhere fast, or trying to surround an enemy's troops fast, disengage phalanx and swing around and engage without the phalanx.
The phalanx is unbeatable in the front remember that. It can only be beaten by another phalanx with more men, or better equipment, experience, or any combination of the three.

[Emperor Tom]

Keep the spear wall! Let them run into the spears, tire themselves, and then, make them pay!

[Xellos_Moon]

Maybe your friend is trying to use them as shock troops. Charge to scare them a little coupled with some other morale killing moves might be enough to rout the enemy unit without a full head on confrontation. maybe

[Zen1986]

It also depends what you are fighting, doing this when facing heavy infantry will just make your troops into mince!

[HanatielHawk]

Just let the phalanx do its work, it's a waste of troops when you HAVE a unit who can use phalanx and you charge right into the enemy while your spears can do the greater work! It could be the breaking of the morale yes, but i wouldn't sacrifice my spearunits to accomplish that, i'd just let the enemy fight to their own death instead of chasing them because they're too chicken.
Do what you believe that will damage the enemy more than yourself and don't look too much at your friend his mistakes it could be part of a strategy he was trying to use, it also could be just because your friend wanted to end the fight quickly. Using certain tactics can have certain reasons.

[Finch]

i think he charged because the enemy was weaker the his units

[HMS Empire Broadsword]

It can be worth breaking phalanx and charging in when the enwmy morale is low, and they are about to break. This should rout them.

Armoured hoplites arent too bad out of phalank, though they WILL be beaten by stuff like legionaries or elite tribal warriors out of phalanx.

[HanatielHawk]

It can be worth breaking phalanx and charging in when the enwmy morale is low, and they are about to break. This should rout them.

Armoured hoplites arent too bad out of phalank, though they WILL be beaten by stuff like legionaries or elite tribal warriors out of phalanx.

However armoures hoplites will also be beaten when fighting a cohort even IN phalanx

[HMS Empire Broadsword]

However armoures hoplites will also be beaten when fighting a cohort even IN phalanx

On hard difficulty setting, armoured hoplites WILL get beaten by Legionaries, ONE ON ONE.

Because the legionaries will spread out along the face of the phalanx and attack the vulnerable flanks where they outclass the hoplites, thus breaking the phalanx formation at the flanks, allowing more legionaries to get up close, breaking the phalanx even more, untill it becomes a sword and shield only fight, where the hoplites are outclassed and beaten.

However, if the unit of hoplites is part of one continous battle-line, with no gaps, the legionaries wont be able to get through, due to them being unable to attack the flanks, that is, unless they attack the extreme flank of the whole phalanx line.

[HanatielHawk]

On hard difficulty setting, armoured hoplites WILL get beaten by Legionaries, ONE ON ONE.

Because the legionaries will spread out along the face of the phalanx and attack the vulnerable flanks where they outclass the hoplites, thus breaking the phalanx formation at the flanks, allowing more legionaries to get up close, breaking the phalanx even more, untill it becomes a sword and shield only fight, where the hoplites are outclassed and beaten.

However, if the unit of hoplites is part of one continous battle-line, with no gaps, the legionaries wont be able to get through, due to them being unable to attack the flanks, that is, unless they attack the extreme flank of the whole phalanx line.

Well that maked perfectly sense because it's just a line with spears which can't be broken then. Still when charging you can use your pila to kill some hoplites which can cause gaps, but saying that a phalanx line will only stop legions, concludes that in an one-on-one fight, with swords or spears, the legionaries will win from the hoplites.
Face it, roman dicipline and military power will win from greek hoplite strength (spartans not included).

[Dave Strider]

Unless the Greeks have Cretan Archers and the Romans have no cavalry.

[HanatielHawk]

Unless the Greeks have Cretan Archers and the Romans have no cavalry.

But that was not the case.
Take an individual roman cohort and let it fight with an individual greek armoured hoplite in or out phalanx and the cohort will alway's win unless you're really screwing it up.

[|Sith| Max]

Just in case of tardedness i want to state that this only works in campaign, if you are going to play in the MP using legionary cohorts instead of Urban cohorts you may as well admit defeat.

[Delta21]

Keep the phalanx unless you want to maneuver fast so you can then reform the phalanx and strike hard...the charge bonus is really not worth it....UNLESS you really know what you're doing and want to use them as shock troops in combination with other morale depleting moves to route your enemy. I am pretty sure that killing 2 rows of enemy infantry through another infantry charge does more of a morale hit than slowly killing them with the phalanx formation, but do that only if you know what you're doing.

[Warhammster]

The sword attack of most phalanx units are quite useless, for example the Macedonian Royal Pikemen:

Their spear has 10 in attack rating, whilst their sword has 5 in attack rating. So when using spears they got twice the attack and many times the range, the choice is quite obvious.

[|Sith| Max]

Yes. Go for life.