Naval inconsistancies?

**lemming3k** · January 13, 2010, 03:51 PM

I'm starting to wonder if the AI gets an advantage in naval battles, or if I'm just extremely unlucky.

Several times I've been able to take out light galleys by using sloops, keeping distance and picking them off receiving little fire in return. However if there are 5 or more light galleys this can take up to an hour and hundreds of volleys. Of course in that time I occassionally stray into their range, and I find after 3 volleys from a single ship my sloop is severly damaged, or worse exploded.
I've replayed a few times and this is pretty steady.

Naturally after this I'm quite impressed with light galleys, and have formed my own fleet. Now I'm experiencing the complete opposite situation. Austria has a navy of sloops with a couple brigs, and I have 6 light galleys. I'm finding only a handful of volleys from a sloop is taking out a light galley, and 6 light galleys firing on 1 sloop is failing to do any significant damage. Again I've replayed a few times and this is a steady outcome.

I'm pretty confused at all this, so does the AI get an advantage in naval battles? Are galleys actually only good for the AI?

**MortenJessen** · January 13, 2010, 03:58 PM

Hi there.
From experience I can tell you that galleys are useless. But bringing in small ships like sloops or brigs to fight them is pointless. And a galley fires from its front, not its broadside. Best way to get rid of them, is to send in a 3rd or 2nd rate. They can quite easy take care of almost an entire fleet of galleys.
And the A.I does not recieve more bonus in naval battle than the level-of-play gives the A.I in general. it is only better at handeling the sea. Only part of the A.I that actually works.
Y.S.
M. Jessen

**lemming3k** · January 13, 2010, 07:54 PM

Originally Posted by MortenJessen

Hi there.
From experience I can tell you that galleys are useless. But bringing in small ships like sloops or brigs to fight them is pointless. And a galley fires from its front, not its broadside. Best way to get rid of them, is to send in a 3rd or 2nd rate. They can quite easy take care of almost an entire fleet of galleys.
And the A.I does not recieve more bonus in naval battle than the level-of-play gives the A.I in general. it is only better at handeling the sea. Only part of the A.I that actually works.
Y.S.
M. Jessen

I'm still at the early game stage, so nothing bigger than a 5th rate at the moment, and also Galleons. I use sloops as they're cheap(build and upkeep costs), they can outrun them and stay out of reach whilst still firing off shots(as you say, galleys fire from the front). The galleys easily destroyed larger ships in previous battles so I didn't think it smart to throw away larger ships defeating them.

What I'm getting at though, is that the damage seems very different when I use them, compared to the AI. I must be very unlucky, but at first I thought they were overpowered(well ok, they ARE overpowered, galleys never had such huge guns but lets skip that for now) - they're easily destroying larger, and more up to date ships. Now I'm in the opposite situation, using them against brigs and sloops(no 5th rates yet) they aren't doing anywhere near so well as they did against me (but still more effective than other ships, and for less cost).
If it were an odd occassion I'd put it down to random chance, but it's happened quite frequently, and I've replayed several battles several times with the same results.
I find light galleys hard to hit, and it takes a large number of volleys from my sloops to kill(and several from anything larger), whilst packing a huge punch. Now I'm using them I just can't replicate those results. Enemy sloops are standing up to them with ease, and they aren't smart enough to keep their distance so I'm getting plenty of shots in! I'm finding it very confusing.

**drake546** · January 13, 2010, 07:18 PM

Originally Posted by lemming3k

I'm starting to wonder if the AI gets an advantage in naval battles, or if I'm just extremely unlucky.

Several times I've been able to take out light galleys by using sloops, keeping distance and picking them off receiving little fire in return. However if there are 5 or more light galleys this can take up to an hour and hundreds of volleys. Of course in that time I occassionally stray into their range, and I find after 3 volleys from a single ship my sloop is severly damaged, or worse exploded.
I've replayed a few times and this is pretty steady.

Naturally after this I'm quite impressed with light galleys, and have formed my own fleet. Now I'm experiencing the complete opposite situation. Austria has a navy of sloops with a couple brigs, and I have 6 light galleys. I'm finding only a handful of volleys from a sloop is taking out a light galley, and 6 light galleys firing on 1 sloop is failing to do any significant damage. Again I've replayed a few times and this is a steady outcome.

I'm pretty confused at all this, so does the AI get an advantage in naval battles? Are galleys actually only good for the AI?

Light galleys have 1 very heavy cannon, and a few moderate cannons. All of them shoot forward.

Also, naval balance in unmodded just plain sucks. Many reasons, but the most annoying one to me personally is that smaller ships fire stronger ammunition with more accuracy than a larger ship with the same gun.

**lemming3k** · January 13, 2010, 07:57 PM

Originally Posted by drake546

Light galleys have 1 very heavy cannon, and a few moderate cannons. All of them shoot forward.

Also, naval balance in unmodded just plain sucks. Many reasons, but the most annoying one to me personally is that smaller ships fire stronger ammunition with more accuracy than a larger ship with the same gun.

Well we could debate the naval inaccurracies all day really, but this thread's for a frequent inconsistancy I'm suffering

**NJGOAT** · January 14, 2010, 08:43 AM

I have noticed that naval battles can be very wonky. I've had the AI ships get some lucky shots on my ships that were just way too lucky. I also experience my ships breaking or taking more damage from the AI ships then what they are dishing out despite even odds and numbers of volleys. Supposedly the bonuses are simply tied to the level you are playing it. If you are on normal then the AI gets no bonuses. If you are on hard or very hard then they are getting morale and other bonuses in both land and naval battles.

With all that said naval battles, is one thing the AI does much better when compared to the other aspects of the game. The AI is better at maneuvering its ships then you are and also better at targeting its guns.

**lemming3k** · January 14, 2010, 10:43 AM

Originally Posted by NJGOAT

I have noticed that naval battles can be very wonky. I've had the AI ships get some lucky shots on my ships that were just way too lucky. I also experience my ships breaking or taking more damage from the AI ships then what they are dishing out despite even odds and numbers of volleys. Supposedly the bonuses are simply tied to the level you are playing it. If you are on normal then the AI gets no bonuses. If you are on hard or very hard then they are getting morale and other bonuses in both land and naval battles.

With all that said naval battles, is one thing the AI does much better when compared to the other aspects of the game. The AI is better at maneuvering its ships then you are and also better at targeting its guns.

I have it on normal for the moment, I always find the early game difficult with everybody being hostile to me and always being at war with most nations.
I notice the AI is very good in land battles at knowing the exact range of my units, and sitting just outside that.
I'm quite good at naval battles though(taking what I've learned from other games such as Pirates), keeping an eye on the wind, tacking back and forth to get volleys off from both sides whereas the AI only uses one, and staying out of reach of fire and ideally running ahead of their ships. I've put down bigger vessels with sloops by maneuvering well, constant fire, and more than a little patience! Galleys just seem to make no sense though.

**lancer63** · January 14, 2010, 11:02 AM

Galleys are more a nuisance than a danger in my game, but they present a small target and have the annoying habit of shooting up the stern of my ships. Have never lost anything bigger than a brig to them but am always careful not to let them get on my 6.
Cheers!

**FriendoftheDork** · January 15, 2010, 02:08 AM

To kill light galleys you just need to maneuver a 5th rate or 6th rate into close to the galley and fire grape shot - often a single broadside will cause the galley to surrender. You will lose a cannon or 3 doing this (the galley gets off one or two shots and usually hits) but these ships can take it. Sloops could be destroyed in one lucky shot but if not use the same tactic as with the frigate, get close and fire cannister shot.

I've been able to do this repeatedly even with East Indiamen. With my single ship I defeated 3 light galley attacks before I was finally beaten. In the last battle the galley was next to me but my cannons had a bad angle and couldn't hit with the grapeshot. I tried to board but that of course meant my crew of 60 was slaughtered by 19 of theirs. Yarr!

**lemming3k** · January 15, 2010, 10:30 AM

Originally Posted by FriendoftheDork

To kill light galleys you just need to maneuver a 5th rate or 6th rate into close to the galley and fire grape shot - often a single broadside will cause the galley to surrender. You will lose a cannon or 3 doing this (the galley gets off one or two shots and usually hits) but these ships can take it. Sloops could be destroyed in one lucky shot but if not use the same tactic as with the frigate, get close and fire cannister shot.

I've been able to do this repeatedly even with East Indiamen. With my single ship I defeated 3 light galley attacks before I was finally beaten. In the last battle the galley was next to me but my cannons had a bad angle and couldn't hit with the grapeshot. I tried to board but that of course meant my crew of 60 was slaughtered by 19 of theirs. Yarr!

Easier said than done, they rarely travel alone in my game, and 3 galleys is enough to take out a 5th rate or galleon before it gets near enough to fire grapeshot(I've had it happen) and they usually travel in 6+ groups. I'm actually having far more success with sloops, but the key is avoiding to get close with them, they have the range on the galleys so I play patient. Took out 6 this way with 1 sloop, minimal damage.
As you pointed out sloops will die very easily against galleys, which is why I'm preplexed at my issues I'm having sinking them with my own galleys. Especially as the AI sails in a line, straight towards my galleys. With 6 galleys I should be able to take them out 1 after the other with ease.

**Khassaki** · January 15, 2010, 11:23 AM

Originally Posted by lemming3k

Easier said than done, they rarely travel alone in my game, and 3 galleys is enough to take out a 5th rate or galleon before it gets near enough to fire grapeshot(I've had it happen) and they usually travel in 6+ groups. I'm actually having far more success with sloops, but the key is avoiding to get close with them, they have the range on the galleys so I play patient. Took out 6 this way with 1 sloop, minimal damage.
As you pointed out sloops will die very easily against galleys, which is why I'm preplexed at my issues I'm having sinking them with my own galleys. Especially as the AI sails in a line, straight towards my galleys. With 6 galleys I should be able to take them out 1 after the other with ease.

You inability to sink anything is your problem I suspect and not the game's as I didn't have a problem with Vanilla galleys anyway. That said though, get a balancing mod as the vanilla game is just wierd.

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=320774

Been using this since it came out and get no surprises in naval battles now. Galleys are what they should be, cheap and generally worthless. Won't promise that it will help though as I never had your issues with galleys

**lemming3k** · January 15, 2010, 04:07 PM

Originally Posted by Khassaki

You inability to sink anything is your problem I suspect and not the game's as I didn't have a problem with Vanilla galleys anyway.

That's what it seems, but I still can't understand why. And before anyone says it I've definitely checked they're actually shooting.

That said though, get a balancing mod as the vanilla game is just wierd.

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=320774

Been using this since it came out and get no surprises in naval battles now. Galleys are what they should be, cheap and generally worthless. Won't promise that it will help though as I never had your issues with galleys

I'm starting to agree with you, thanks for the recommendation.

**happycynic** · January 15, 2010, 12:19 PM

Remember you can use play battles to test out strategies.

**british_general** · February 28, 2010, 04:12 AM

Originally Posted by lemming3k

I'm starting to wonder if the AI gets an advantage in naval battles, or if I'm just extremely unlucky.

Several times I've been able to take out light galleys by using sloops, keeping distance and picking them off receiving little fire in return. However if there are 5 or more light galleys this can take up to an hour and hundreds of volleys. Of course in that time I occassionally stray into their range, and I find after 3 volleys from a single ship my sloop is severly damaged, or worse exploded.
I've replayed a few times and this is pretty steady.

Naturally after this I'm quite impressed with light galleys, and have formed my own fleet. Now I'm experiencing the complete opposite situation. Austria has a navy of sloops with a couple brigs, and I have 6 light galleys. I'm finding only a handful of volleys from a sloop is taking out a light galley, and 6 light galleys firing on 1 sloop is failing to do any significant damage. Again I've replayed a few times and this is a steady outcome.

I'm pretty confused at all this, so does the AI get an advantage in naval battles? Are galleys actually only good for the AI?

That's why I concentrate on infantry battles and just blockade ports.(I play against Indians. their fleet is noob)