Fool me once...

So I've finally gotten around to checking out NTW...and then thought to myself, "Self; what are you doing!?" After the shenanigans of ETW, how could I even DARE peek at this game!!?? It's too bad because this iteration looks cool...but there's no way in hell I'll be purchasing this game -- On principle alone.

I wasn't scammed by ETW, though I was dissappointed. The game works for and is fun sometimes, I don't feel scammed by NTW either,yet, though I do disagree with CA's priorities and aiming low and becoming just anoher Napoleonic game (like a graphiccally improved vanilla Cossacks 2) as opposed to something that can be more diverse, like making Spain a recognizable power (Even the Cossacks 2 expansion added them along with the Ducy of Warsaw!) and truly capturing the essence of the era yet letting you rewrite history, as opposed to an "un-total war" preset course.

This game will be very different to Empire. That is why it is not just an expansion pack. CA are making big coding changes. Especailly with the AI.

Also CA have made clear that they do not want to repeat releasing a game with so many bugs in the future.

Evan

Originally Posted by Evan MF

This game will be very different to Empire. That is why it is not just an expansion pack. CA are making big coding changes. Especailly with the AI.

Also CA have made clear that they do not want to repeat releasing a game with so many bugs in the future.

Evan

Heard that before.

Heard it after medieval 1.

Heard it after rome.

Heard it after medieval 2.

If anything the games are getting buggier and the AI stupider.

Originally Posted by drake546

Heard that before.

Heard it after medieval 1.

Heard it after rome.

Heard it after medieval 2.

If anything the games are getting buggier and the AI stupider.

it is true though. Game companies get away with all sorts of crap because the industry is geared to children and because nothing is riding on the quality of the product. Imagine Adobe created steam and forced you to use it to advertise their other software products, and then released their imaging software that was difficult to navigate, you couldn't delete saved files, you had features you never needed, crashed all the time, and was missing or had many features that didn't work. Then imagine they offered to sell you bits of the program (motion blur effects, dynamic lighting effects, etc) for 5 dollars while not actually fixing the imaging software itself. I mean they made a token effort at finishing the software by patching it 4 times then they say they can't totally fix it but will release the real imaging software a year later will all the fixes and features they meant to have, for 15-20 dollars less.

they'd go out of business.

Originally Posted by smegma

it is true though. Game companies get away with all sorts of crap because the industry is geared to children and because nothing is riding on the quality of the product. Imagine Adobe created steam and forced you to use it to advertise their other software products, and then released their imaging software that was difficult to navigate, you couldn't delete saved files, you had features you never needed, crashed all the time, and was missing or had many features that didn't work. Then imagine they offered to sell you bits of the program (motion blur effects, dynamic lighting effects, etc) for 5 dollars while not actually fixing the imaging software itself. I mean they made a token effort at finishing the software by patching it 4 times then they say they can't totally fix it but will release the real imaging software a year later will all the fixes and features they meant to have, for 15-20 dollars less.

they'd go out of business.

YES! That is a great analogy. This makes me wonder how the heck some of these developers DO stay in biz. Or perhaps they don't?? They just get gobbled up by EA. So HERE is the question. If CA delivers NTW and it's garbage, does that put them in danger of going under? I'm no expert but I've got to say yes! If I'm a publisher and I see CA has had two consecutive botched releases...I'd think twice about doing biz and making that investment again.

Originally Posted by smegma

it is true though. Game companies get away with all sorts of crap because the industry is geared to children and because nothing is riding on the quality of the product..

You got that right. i don`t think CA\SEGA care for anyone above the age of consent any more. They should make all their TW games for the WII now.

Oh wait, they wouldn`t be able to use Steam-Only, so they won`t.

i had the exact same feeling as the OP. i realized how fool i was when i was first hyped up about the game.

even after the last video..i was waiting for some exciting features to a supposedly new game. most of the new features are considered minor tweaks. hell, they were trying to excite me with "Napoleonic units, some 5 playable factions, or even a ship with some 140 guns". yeah that' tempting. all they were trying to say was "Napoleon was a great general and tactician, u should get NTW because u know, Napoleon is in it!". thank u very much, but no.

Originally Posted by Evan MF

This game will be very different to Empire. That is why it is not just an expansion pack. CA are making big coding changes. Especailly with the AI.

Also CA have made clear that they do not want to repeat releasing a game with so many bugs in the future.

Evan

right. did they say they make it highly moddable as well beside saying that they fix every thing that was a issue since rome plus everything that became a issue with empire?

Originally Posted by Evan MF

This game will be very different to Empire. That is why it is not just an expansion pack. CA are making big coding changes. Especailly with the AI.

Also CA have made clear that they do not want to repeat releasing a game with so many bugs in the future.

Evan

The game is not very different from ETW - Here is what is distinctively new:
- supply/re-enforcement system with supply centers
- hard-coded/historical generals
- Negative diplomacy

Those are not bad but there were more changes for BI or kingdoms (that were extensions) than for this "new" game

Missing from the game:
- the whole military management aspect of the game (stack of 20 units, Battle AI) has not fundamentally changed since RTW - there is nothing in it even remotely relating to how armies were raised and managed in the Napoleonic era

That one miss will make the difference between a fresh, successful Napoleonic-era game and a cheap clone of ETW

Originally Posted by Evan MF

This game will be very different to Empire. That is why it is not just an expansion pack. CA are making big coding changes. Especailly with the AI.

Also CA have made clear that they do not want to repeat releasing a game with so many bugs in the future.

Evan

Mind if I seem nosey but can I ask how much they are paying you to say this?

Spoken like Kieran himself...

(Evan not Abspara)

Come on! You guys are just like the people who think that just because the Weathermen couldn't predict snowy conditions in ONE instant that they can never predict the weather right again.

Lets step back and look at the wider picture people. Just because one game failed to succeed (and I highly disagree, for me Empire was revolutionary - well done CA) it doesn't mean all the other will/have. Look at CA's previous successful record: STW RTW (the other two revolutionaries) and the other games and expansions they released.

If most total wars were a failure to you, then you have too higher expectations for the games and will never be happy.

Evan

Originally Posted by Evan MF

If most total wars were a failure to you, then you have too higher expectations for the games and will never be happy.

Thats very good point some people have just very high expectation for money they pay. Im not saying that 40E is not a lot of money for a single game but if you compare it to other games ... most games these days have like 10 hours of gameplay but total war hundred of hours. On other hand if i look at NTW overall what i saw its still very very similiar to ETW and im afraid if i buy it i will get bored very soon even if its bug free.

Originally Posted by Evan MF

Come on! You guys are just like the people who think that just because the Weathermen couldn't predict snowy conditions in ONE instant that they can never predict the weather right again.

If you guess enough times you are bound to be correct sometimes. Sorry but this analogy is flaw.

Originally Posted by Evan MF

Lets step back and look at the wider picture people. Just because one game failed to succeed (and I highly disagree, for me Empire was revolutionary - well done CA) it doesn't mean all the other will/have. Look at CA's previous successful record: STW RTW (the other two revolutionaries) and the other games and expansions they released.

I stepped back after the release of MTW, but I could find no reason for releasing a game where alliances meant diddly squat and declarations of war was more frequent than anything else. You are, of course, entitled to your own opinion, but I believe most people agree that MTW1 and 2 where, if not equally broken as ETW, at least broken. STW was good because it was ground breaking, RTW works since it takes place in a time period where a rational CAI is not a big deal. Yes, it's total war, not total diplomacy, but why include diplomacy at all if you clearly can't get it right?

Originally Posted by Evan MF

If most total wars were a failure to you, then you have too higher expectations for the games and will never be happy.

Shame on me for expecting that the games will be what Kieran and co describes them to be. Damn my high expectations, I will at once lower them and pre-order NTW, then I will have infinite bliss.

Bye the looks of the new gameplay video, its looks like the shanigans are continueing.

Yes the soldiers look different and have nice uniforms. But the graphics are the same! The reason they said they couldn't make the game an expansion was because of the new graphics. WTF? The UI looks just like the Empire total war one but they just changed the dam UI colors.

I will still wait for the game to pass final judgment, but CA better come through.

Because companies know that they can get away with it if they manage to hype their games.

Originally Posted by ray243

Because companies know that they can get away with it if they manage to hype their games.

Exactly and us schmucks keep buying there games, me included. So obviously their evil master plan to hype their game has worked several times.


p.s No sarcasm intended

Sure ETW has hundreds of hours of gameplay OF THE SAME STUPID MELEE BUG OVER AND OVER AGAIN!!!

Seriously, anybody who think ETW was "well done" needs to have their head checked for extra holes or check into TW fanboy rehab...

Even if I buy NTW, I will not buy during "crunch time" i.e. - the intial time after release when they hope for the most sales, in fact I will wait until it goes on sale, they still owe me for ETW as far as I am concerned, I'm not giving them full price or the benifit of the doubt. I have no doubt that they are lairs until proven otherwise.

Also I don't like how they flip-flop on Modders, first they hint tease us with tools then no tools given, saying oh you don't need tools, then make veiled threats like, "well we could lock down the code so no modding could be done" then in the lastest interview, when asked about blood in NTW, they are like, "Oh no, we didn't do it but don't worry the modders will take care of it," like we are their personal unpaid patch labor force or something. What a jerk!

Because the DMUC people already expect me to mod NTW and I may be willing to do some modding but dammit I ain't polishing another turd for them.

hip63

Originally Posted by hip63

when asked about blood in NTW, they are like, "Oh no, we didn't do it but don't worry the modders will take care of it," like we are their personal unpaid patch labor force or something. What a jerk!

Too right. Using Modders as an excuse not to implement or fix things is unprofessional of CA. And if CA really want Modders to help then RELEASE MOD TOOLS!

But they should not quote modders as solving all problems when they won`t even give them a helping hand. That`s called hypocrisy and two-faced.