The Lion Rampant: Journey for an Accurate Scottish Roster

[Horsa]

When William the Conqueror (or Bastard as he is sometimes known) arrived on English shores in 1066, little did the Scots know of the disastrous effects it would have on them. After the successful Norman Invasion, Edgar the Ætheling fled to Scotland in the attempt to gain their support, and it wasn't long before Máel Coluim would marry Margaret, the sister of Edgar. By AD 1072, William marched on Lothian and past Stirling on to the Firth of Tay. Máel Coluim submitted and was forced to pay homage to William, whats more, his son Donnchad had to be given as a hostage.

This would begin an era of complete, and almost never stoping war with the Normans as many Scots and Englishmen alike would rise and fall in the attempt to destroy the other, William Wallace and Robert the Bruce to name just a couple.

Despite the fairly recent drawback, there has been a small light to be found as Edgars sister Margaret, wife of Máel Coluim and of English and Hungarian descent began to bring European influence to Scotland.

Scotland now looks to advance itself to the level of its new Norman enemy, to bring the fight to them, to take revenge upon them. But revenge will not be easy, as the Normans were quick and intelligent enough to realize the threats around them and have armies large enough to resist a Scottish onslaught. But still, the Normans have many enemies and will be sure to gain more in the future, make use of these enemies and the new Norman kingdom of England can fall, but make a single mistake and it could be Scotland instead who falls.

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Greetings to all Scottish fans, and lovers of Historical Accuracy. One thing that has really bugged me and many others about M2TW ever since its release was its "Brave Heart" style representation of the Scots... the woad covered, tartan cladded, barbarian peasants. This mod aims to provide a Scottish roster that will be as accurate as possible (within reason). The roster will be available for other mods to use, so long as they give credit where it is deserved.

I have a couple of WIP units to show you, but before I do, I'd like to give a BIG thanks to the developers of 1066 Conquests. Their mod is unfortunately dead, but we have been given permission to use what we will from the units they created, this has resulted in what we feel are far better units. If you see any of the members of the 1066 team, be sure to rep them! Also, a big thanks to The Border Reiver who has helped us in making sure the units we have developed so far are as accurate as possible.

Without further ado, here are a couple of work in progress units.

Ceathairne Víkingr

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Lowland Knights Víkingr

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Scottish Archers Víkingr

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Ribauld- Awellesley

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Scottish Spearmen Awellesley

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Upgraded Scottish Spearmen Awellesley

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Recruiting
We are looking for people who have a decent knowledge of Scottish Medieval history, people who can make sure the units developed are accurate, people who can write up a list of unit names for the roster, people who can write detailed unit descriptions for each and every unit created, people who have information that would be useful (pictures etc), particularly designs that could be used for shields or battle banners. I wouldn't say no to any modders either! Unit creators are especially needed!

If your interested, either post in this thread or PM me.

Team
Víkingr
Awellesley
The Border Reiver
BURNY26

[helmersen]

Sounds great! Will the angry Vikings also join this war?

[Horsa]

lol. I haven't even thought about any kind of campaign. If I ever did one it would be last priority. But if I did one, it would only make sense to include the Norwegian holdings in Scotland and the Isle of Man. As I said... for the mean time, there is no campaign, just a roster available for anyone to download and include in their mod.

[IVIarkI2I]

keep it coming you can use PL unreleased units if you want to

[Horsa]

keep it coming you can use PL unreleased units if you want to

Thanks! That's very generous . Could I possibly use any particular textures or models?

[IVIarkI2I]

Thanks! That's very generous . Could I possibly use any particular textures or models?

te be exact only textures becouse of modellar non-sharing policy

[helmersen]

lol. I haven't even thought about any kind of campaign. If I ever did one it would be last priority. But if I did one, it would only make sense to include the Norwegian holdings in Scotland and the Isle of Man. As I said... for the mean time, there is no campaign, just a roster available for anyone to download and include in their mod.

Whatever you decide to do, stay in the game, and you'll do awesome stuff, my friend.

[The Border Reiver]

Vikingr...a very good start and a very interesting & promising project. The models are very good and the basic plaid/tartan design is very apt. I especially like the lowland knights; will these be mounted and infantry?

As you know I will gladly continue to help with information. Our mod, although very accurate in many other ways continued to use the CA models which represent late 15th and 16th century highlanders, as a historical/gameplay compromise because we couldn't get a modeller.

Your project spans a vast time period, one of which will see quite a variety of models and textures develop over the centuries and I want to help where I can My family comes from Borders where Edgar the Ætheling fled and the subsequent Earls of Dunbar and Home ruled for centuries, so I have quite and interest in this area and the books to go with it.

It would be good to see the project develop as the roster project!

[Horsa]

Vikingr...a very good start and a very interesting & promising project. The models are very good and the basic plaid/tartan design is very apt. I especially like the lowland knights; will these be mounted and infantry?

They will be cavalry, can be infantry as well if you like. I will also develop at least another couple of knight units to represent the different period changes.

As you know I will gladly continue to help with information. Our mod, although very accurate in many other ways continued to use the CA models which represent late 15th and 16th century highlanders, as a historical/gameplay compromise because we couldn't get a modeller.

Your project spans a vast time period, one of which will see quite a variety of models and textures develop over the centuries and I want to help where I can My family comes from Borders where Edgar the Ætheling fled and the subsequent Earls of Dunbar and Home ruled for centuries, so I have quite and interest in this area and the books to go with it.

Thank you, its very appreciated!

[Gorrrrrn]

Vikingr
sounds like a long overdue project.
I've been waiting for an improvement on the Scottish units for Stainless Steel for some time.
anything to replace those faces that look like they've come from Planet of the Apes.
I'd be happy to look around for historical information - to avoid duplication could you summarise what sources you already have consulted please?
(I also have Scottish roots - time I did some digging to discover more about them!)

neat news item:
http://medievalnews.blogspot.com/200...rs-fought.html

amazon has 2 of Fergus Canaan's titles:
Scottish Arms and Armour

and
Galloglass 1250-1600: Gaelic Mercenary Warrior

(an osprey title due out in march 2010)

[Horsa]

to avoid duplication could you summarise what sources you already have consulted please?

Well, I have a couple of osprey books. "Scottish Renaissance Armies 1513 - 1550" and "The Scottish and Welsh Wars 1250 - 1400". There's loads of website I've read, but I'll be damned If I can remember what they are called.

I didn't know there were was an osprey Galloglass book coming out. That good news!

I am working on a similar projest, maybe we can share?

What project is this?

[Awellesley]

I am working on a similar projest, maybe we can share?

[Awellesley]

I am just updating the Scottish roster for SS

[Horsa]

I am just updating the Scottish roster for SS

Well, perhaps you could join this project and we could work together?

[AnthoniusII]

I have read in a history magasine that latest researches found that scotish "regulars" did not whear the famous kilts but a short of yellow "uniform" consisted by a yellow long tunic over other cloths...
It seams that it is a recent finding ..has anyone else this kind of info?

[Horsa]

I have read in a history magasine that latest researches found that scotish "regulars" did not whear the famous kilts but a short of yellow "uniform" consisted by a yellow long tunic over other cloths...
It seams that it is a recent finding ..has anyone else this kind of info?

Yes, the kilt was not used until the 16th century (Am I right here?), Before that, they tended to wear tunics of sometimes fairly bright color, yellow being one of them. I don't think there was any standard uniform though.

The common depiction of men in kilts carrying claymores didn't actually happen until the very end of the game.

[Ballacraine]

There would be quite a lot of changes over that period.

Would it be better to concentrate on dealing with, say a century at a time?

Also don't forget the 'wounded' textures. They give quite a boost to realism IMO.

Balla.

[Awellesley]

I would be willing to work with you. PM me and we can work something out.

A word on kilts-not common until the Celtic revival of the late 17th century. Tartan cloth was common, but the colours reflected the natural dyes available in an area-so they were associated with areas rather than families.

[stevehoos]

This is great, I can't wait


Hopefully we can have both mounted knights and footknights with the lowland garb.

ETA?

[Horsa]

ETA?

I hate to sound dumb... But that does ETA mean?