Can anyone win with orcs on very hard?

[Lare]

Orcs of the misty mountains would be interesting faction to play with because of Balrog, but their situation is way too difficult. The orcs have:

- 3 enemies (Eriador, Dwarven, Silvian elves, High elves) right from the start
- Eriador eager to jump to war against Orcs right from the start
- 3 of these factions have no other enemies than the orcs (in my last game Eriador and Isengard declared war at round ~45-50, but I had been crushed by then)
- All of the enemies have much better units than the orcs at the beginning (even the light archers of Silvian elves are a tough match in melee against the best infantry orcs have at the beginning)

Against these 4 factions with superior units, the game becomes a very frustrating struggle, that now seems nearly impossible to win. In order to survive, the orcs should have enough money to build really massive armies, but the 3 central cities produce too little income.

If you've managed to win with orcs, on vh/vh, hod did you do that? I tried to expand quickly, but but very soon the enemies got the upper hand and at round 50 I was defeated. Maby I should first concentrate on getting the High elves capital and after that the 2 southern cities of silvian elves?

Damn it, I'll give it a try.

[Baron Samedi]

Although I played exactly once with the OotMM (in DAC), I have some suggestions:

• Try to fight one faction at the time, if you fight three at one time, the more likely you will lose. Just try to make peace and if posibble start an alliance with one of the three possible enemy factions you mentioned. They won't backstab you and you can concentrate all of your forces better and more efficiently. Go for instance for the capital of HE, make alliance with Eriador, kill of some dwarves and finally kill some hobbits afterwards.
• I think Snagas are one of the best possible units you can recruit with this faction. As has been pointed out earlier you can try a hit-and-run tactic especially against dwarves (they are lacking cavalry) and they also perform moderate in close combat.
• Once you have advanced some more in your campaign, then its basically: troll time! So in summary: your early campaign is very important with this faction.

[Hermes Trismegistos]

I did it once in 1.2, here is what I wrote in another thread about it:

Early game with OotMM is always hard, you need to thin well about every single step...

1) I would recommend to bring down Imladris as early as possible, that should give you some rest at least from the High Elves for some time - now you can focus totally to the east.
Try to keep peace with Eriador as long as possible, if necessary give them maps, they don't cost you anything.
2) Next step should be to take the rebel settlements Framsburg and Wrakyaburg and concentrate your forces in Wrakyaburg - from here you can defend against offences from the Sylvan Elves as well as helping out Dain's Halls if it is sieged by the dwarves. In siege defences against dwarves never rely solely on the fight at gates and walls, dwarves will always be superior in melee on little space. Bring out snagas through the side gates and pepper the flanks of the dwarves advancing towards the main gate with javelins, attack them from all sides once you run out of ammunition.
3) I managed to bring down the only two dwarven family members Dain and Thorin in an early invasion towards the Iron Hills - if you can achieve something similar, it would be very helpful of course...
4) Take the two well-developed settlements in Lothlorien. I'm not going lie to you, it's going to be really hard. Use many archers and always use them with flaming arrows - that way you can at least partially substitute their inferiority. Even elven archers have a hard job vs. mass-flaming-arrow-crossfire. Otherwise spread out your formation wide and try to engage them in melee with superior numbers (opposite with the dwarves, always harrass them with arrows and javelins).
5) Once Lothlorien is down, the Sylvan elves mostly use their fighting spirit. Now you can build up, soon there should be trolls and wargs available which solve most of your problems. Now you can freely choose whom to attack next, depending on how the campaign plays out, you shpuld be able to match all of them.

This way it worked for me - of course every campaign plays out different, so I can't guarantee it to work...

PS:

It should look more or less like this in the end...

[Baron Samedi]

I did it once in 1.2, here is what I wrote in another thread about it:

I dare to bet with you, that you can't achieve that in TATW 1.4 in the same timeframe, without any cheats....

[Hermes Trismegistos]

Hmm, I played a few turns to see what has changed and I'm ready to take that bet. However I'm not sure when I will have the time, probably towards the weekend...

[jản]

Hmm, I played a few turns to see what has changed and I'm ready to take that bet. However I'm not sure when I will have the time, probably towards the weekend...

124 turns on one weekend - man you know that it is unhealthy to play 48 hours in one piece.

but give it a shot! - i'd like to know that too. but i'm sure one weekend is to short for this.
and keep us updated with some nice screenshots please. it would be a pleasure to see you
fail and get kicked ass. you'll get some +rep!


(i play a VH/VH gondor campaign ATM for two weeks now (smth between 25 or 35 hours)
and are on turn 60 now. i usually play 2 or 3 hours a day and in that time i make it up to
4 or 5 turns. only the last fight with nearly 10K fighting units on a siege of E. Osgiliath made
me play an hour longer. so lets see how long you will take for this. good luck.)

[sebsebseb1234]

OMG nice work.

[Maverock]

You'll get my rep if you manage it!
And also if you don't manage it and made a good try

[jản]

//

i think this thread could become interesting.
looking forward to it.

//

[Twist of Cain]

Building an archery range in Dain's Halls early on can be very useful: If you have not taken Framsburg and Wrakyaburg yet, most of the early dwarven attacks will hit in this area, and without crossbows.

[Russian Gondor]

Best thing for dwarves is send a general around looking for mercenaries from dale.

[Dava2710]

So I started the VH/VH OotMM campaign after I saw this thread.
I am somewhere around 60th round and I just turned a tide of powers. First I pushed eriador pretty far - almost reached Bree (which later fell to mordor in the Invasion). Then enemy made a massive push and layed siege on almost every city I had in 2 or 3 rounds. I managed to defend some, some were imposible to hold so I lost a lot of income. But then, when things looked grim, I started a huge recruitment and after a long struggle, I reclaimed most of my lost cities. Now I am pushing silvans back, holding the easternmost castle (something like Danuin's halls) and trying to push west (I recommend placing towers between this castle and erebor so you can see dwarven army like 3 rounds in advance - it's a huge advantage), but my advance is curently stopped because of ,,the forest massacre". I was ambushed by full eriador army mainly consisted of hobit archers. Before I could even order my men to attack, half of them were dead, so after a very bloody battle, that wasn't decided until the very end - I really didnt know who's gonna win and I'd say it was a Pyrrhic victory - my army had to retreat to the nearest city and since Eriador keeps pushing, they are stuck there.

that is my progress so far - I believe it is possible to win it, BUT it's pretty hard and you have to be lucky...
Also I have to admit that few siege deffence battles were bugged - otherwise I wouldn't have won them. Dwarves were climbing up their ladders but then they just stopped and stood there, doing nothing. So I just emptied my guivers I had and then went out through the gate, outflanking them. Also my eastern commander is a Faction leader with about 6 fear so they were scared.

Anyone read this bunch of crap?

[jản]

Anyone read this bunch of crap?

well like assumed it is pretty hard. some screenshots (of the strat map) would have been nice though.

[Baron Samedi]

I believe it is possible to win it, BUT it's pretty hard and you have to be lucky...

or very skilled...

Anyone read this bunch of crap?

Don't be too harsh on yourself now.
No its fun to read how tough it is to play with OotMM. I wonder how ur buddy Hermes is how doing it in his campaign...

[Hermes Trismegistos]

or very skilled...

Don't be too harsh on yourself now.
No its fun to read how tough it is to play with OotMM. I wonder how ur buddy Hermes is how doing it in his campaign...

Well, so far it's OK, but I haven't had as many time as I hoped, so I'm still very much at the beginning. I will post some of my progress tomorrow...

[BTworld]

orcs are large in numbers harder to kill,specially those Trolls

[eugenioso]

with the OOTMM, i like to play historically. that means NO ALLIANCES WITH ANY FACTION except mordor or isengard.

first thing is to gather a large army or two and as soon as possible strike the fortress of Imladris. if you leave it be it becomes a massive thorn on your back. try to keep a sizeable garrison in Imladris once taken (i like to rename it Goblin-Haven ) to stop any incursions from Eriador. also, gather a skirmisher force for fighting the dwarves IN THE OPEN! dont even dare to try and tackle the bearded ones in melee. thats what skirmishers and arrows are for. you can happily skirmish off a fat army with about 10 skirmishers. as for the silvan elves, keep a strong garrison of archers and infantry at Moria, to stop any attacks. if they assault they are easy prey to your archers.

at this point you have 3 choices: one is to go west, and kill all the good factions till you reach the great sea. another is to head through the south, taking out the silvan elves in Caras and cerin amroth, and then joining up (hopefully) with mordor's armies as they move north to kill the last elves. the last choice is simply to concentrate on the dwarves in the north, who wont stand a chance against your skirmishers.

personally, i always go kill eriador and then the HE. lots of provinces to develop into cash cows and eventually goblin spawning pits. also you wanna do it fast to stop any possible expansion attempts from Isengard to the north. this leaves you free reign to then go kill the dwarves and Dale.

by then gondor will most likely be dead and rohan down to 2 provinces. feel free to play on against isengard or mordor.

PS: trying to tackle Isengard with OOTMM is ridiculously hard. their berserkers will eat your trolls for dinner, and their infantry will massacre yours. your choices are either to skirmish the living out of their infantry or to spam trolls.

PPS: as for Mordor...

they are basically a souped up version of you. better infantry, better trolls, black numenoreans, siege weapons...

basically, youre ed. you can TRY to muster more troops than they can, but it would be really really REALLY hard.

[Lordinquisitor]

Ents the orcs can`t recruit.

The Balrog prefers to sleep deep down in the mountains. If you`d find some way to wake them, you could use them.. I`d ask the dwarves, the good old mine diggers how they woke him.

[Dava2710]

BTworld: Somebody said something about building a mithril mine in Moria and that you need a citadel to do so...

but I'd like to point out that ,,Somebody said" part

edit: sry mr. inquisitor - I blew it

[Dava2710]

ok, so here it is. I don't know why eriador or dwarves wont take back Bree (and sylvan elves that town east of goblin town). I am waiting for is so I can take it myself, but what the hell - I won't start another war agains mordor because of it. You can also see a stupid Eriador siege... It almost seems like they don't know that I will torn their cute little human buttocks apart. I was wrong about the round though, its only 55, not 60+ (really no big difference)
Anyway I am an ally with Isengard, but I don't thing they are doing something, I thing they just sit there, minding their own bussines, letting me fight their enemies alone.
Also, some crazy haradim diplomat is harrasing me with nothing but saying hello

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

sry for not posting it earlier but I was kinda drunk... yea, quite drunk

EDIT: as you can see, Mordor also has Edoras and Rohan obviously doesn't care - there is like 130 orks inside (remnants of a great battle) and rohan just lurks around doing nothing - I know cause I had a spy overlooking the situation.
Why wont they take it back?