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Thread: Google May Leave China After Chinese Government Caught Hacking into GMAIL

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  1. #1
    Mr. Scott's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Google May Leave China After Chinese Government Caught Hacking into GMAIL

    China's been caught red-handed (haha.... communists...) trying to hack into Gmail to read the email of many Chinese-humanist-activists who speak out against the Chinese human rights. Google has pretty much made an ultimatum, China must permit google to have a censorship-free search engine there, or they walk. I doubt china will accept this proposal and I am thinking that they have hurt their relations with foreign companies.

    January 12, 2010 9:00 PM PST
    Dynasty denied, Google rethinks China

    by Tom Krazit


    It once hoped to change China with its search engine, but Google may wind up effecting more change by closing it down.
    They are perhaps the most repeated, misunderstood, and beloved three words to ever be associated with Google: "don't be evil." Those words, highlighted in the company's initial public offering in 2004, underscored how differently Google wants to be thought of compared with the average corporation.
    This has always been a company with a moral pulse, one that in its early days attracted a certain sort of idealistic engineer who truly believed the world could be made a better place by a responsible corporation that efficiently spread information and technology around the world.
    Yet Google is also one of America's largest and richest public companies, and obsessed with growing even larger. Operating on a global scale can require even the nicest businesses and companies to rub shoulders with governments that don't share the values of Silicon Valley.
    The collision of those two forces led Google into what the company founders may eventually come to consider as its worst decision: to self-censor search results in China for almost four years in hopes of improving overall access to information. The company did an about-face Tuesday, declaring that unless the Chinese government allows it to offer an uncensored search engine inside of China, it will shut down its operations in the country.

    Google originally justified its decision to censor results in 2006 as a way of helping the Chinese people. Simply offering Google.com from outside of China made the search engine subject to The Great Firewall of China and hurt performance but didn't require Google to police itself. Opening an office inside of China would require it to follow local laws regarding the dissemination of information on the Internet, but Google believed it could improve access to information in China just by being present with a fast and comprehensive search engine.
    There was also a financial incentive, of course. China has the most Internet users in the world, with stunning growth over the past decade and much more in store, given that only 25 percent of the country is currently using the Internet.
    But Google never seemed to be fully comfortable with its decision. Co-founder Sergey Brin told The Guardian in 2007 that Google's actions resulted in a "net negative," an engineer's way of saying that Google had lost more than it had gained in pursuing business opportunities in China.
    Google lost the respect of many U.S. and European citizens, who were amazed at the way the company was able to justify compromising its lofty principles in the name of profit. It lost a little of its idealism in deciding that it had to work with a government that many consider one of the largest offenders of human rights on the planet in order to grow its business. And it lost the battle: Google had just 14.1 percent of the search market in China during November 2009, compared with Baidu's 62.2 percent, according to ComScore.
    Saddled with a struggling business and a queasy stomach, Google now hopes to regain the moral high ground. It's extremely unlikely that the Chinese government will permit an uncensored search engine in China, especially after being so publicly implicated as the force behind the attacks on the accounts of Gmail users whose main offense was speaking out against that government (Google refused to point its finger directly at the Chinese government, but security researchers have linked the most recent attacks with previous attacks on U.S. companies believed to come from agents of that government).
    Google's obligation to censor search results in China was a difficult balancing act for the company, especially around sensitive dates like the 25th anniversary of the Tiananmen Square protests, when Google blocked all results to searches on those words in Chinese.
    (Credit: Screenshot by Tom Krazit/CNET)
    And after playing defense throughout 2009 against governments and citizens concerned about its growing power, Google has now created a situation where privacy advocates and human-rights activists are applauding the company for taking a principled stand against the Chinese government.
    Back in November, CNET asked Google CEO Eric Schmidt about the "don't be evil" credo and how it applied to Google now that the company has grown into such a large business. He said that "don't be evil" allows Google employees to stand up and play The Evil Card without repercussions, forcing a discussion about whether Google is choosing the right course of action during tricky decisions.
    Without prompting, Schmidt brought up Google's decision to enter China as an example of how that process works. "Certainly, the China decision, which was very controversial at the time, but I think ultimately, the right one for us, is another example of a tortured internal discussion, which ultimately came to roughly, the right outcome," he said.
    The discovery of cyberattacks originating from China against Google seems to have finally tipped that debate for Google. It's now clear that Google believes it erred in making the decision to get in bed with the Chinese government back in 2006, regardless of whether that revelation comes from business reasons or moral reasons.
    Google has now put American Internet information companies doing business in China in a very difficult position: stay and appear to their home crowd to be agents of the Chinese government after Google's strong rebuke, or leave and miss out on the land grab that is the Chinese Internet market. And the end result of all this could be that the Chinese government emerges with even stronger control over the Internet if domestic firms with fewer reservations about censorship or surveillance take their place.
    Google could have changed the way Internet companies work in China Tuesday. It once hoped for something much more.

    “When my information changes, I alter my conclusions.” ― John Maynard Keynes

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    Default Re: Google May Leave China After Chinese Government Caught Hacking into GMAIL

    meh
    google'll be back in China; the market is simply too lucrative which is also why no other company is going to pull out of China.
    you want your company to have $$$$$? well, most of the $$$ is in asia and china is a big part of asia.
    look how much google's stock fell after they announced they might pull out;

    plus google pulling out leaves more market share for its competitors in China; yahoo, baidu, that microsoft search engine etc etc

  3. #3

    Default Re: Google May Leave China After Chinese Government Caught Hacking into GMAIL

    good, google get the out. Baidu.com is taking over. (which is far more popular anyways).
    Have a question about China? Get your answer here.

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    Default Re: Google May Leave China After Chinese Government Caught Hacking into GMAIL

    Quote Originally Posted by bushbush View Post
    good, google get the out. Baidu.com is taking over. (which is far more popular anyways).
    Enjoy your freedom of speech bushbush. Oh wait...
    “When my information changes, I alter my conclusions.” ― John Maynard Keynes

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    Default Re: Google May Leave China After Chinese Government Caught Hacking into GMAIL

    Quote Originally Posted by scottypd54 View Post
    Enjoy your freedom of speech bushbush. Oh wait...
    oh wait what? Google wasn't there when i learned everything you would never know about china lmao. I love silly westerners telling me where my freedom is.
    Have a question about China? Get your answer here.

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    Default Re: Google May Leave China After Chinese Government Caught Hacking into GMAIL

    Quote Originally Posted by bushbush View Post
    oh wait what? Google wasn't there when i learned everything you would never know about china lmao. I love silly westerners telling me where my freedom is.
    I'm not saying that google leaving is removing freedom of speech. You never had it in the first place...
    “When my information changes, I alter my conclusions.” ― John Maynard Keynes

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    Default Re: Google May Leave China After Chinese Government Caught Hacking into GMAIL

    Quote Originally Posted by scottypd54 View Post
    I'm not saying that google leaving is removing freedom of speech. You never had it in the first place...
    Then why are you all crying with google leaving? doesn't bother anybody since it brought nothing to me anyways.

    owned?
    Have a question about China? Get your answer here.

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    Default Re: Google May Leave China After Chinese Government Caught Hacking into GMAIL

    Quote Originally Posted by bushbush View Post
    oh wait what? Google wasn't there when i learned everything you would never know about china lmao. I love silly westerners telling me where my freedom is.
    It's in Canada isn't it?

    Quote Originally Posted by bushbush View Post
    Hey pal, question your california state government on why the hell is broke like a hobo and issue IOU slips to everyone lmao....
    At least he can question his state government without fear of being arrested, unjustly trialled, or locked away. Can you honestly say that the average Chinese citizen can publicly criticise their government, without fear of persecution? No.

    There's nothing wrong with being proud of your homeland, bushbush, especially when China has a lot to be proud of in the last 30 years. But let's not kid ourselves and say that the level of free speech enjoyed by the average Chinese citizen is the same as people in the West.
    Last edited by Dr Zoidberg; January 13, 2010 at 01:10 AM.
    Young lady, I am an expert on humans. Now pick a mouth, open it and say "brglgrglgrrr"!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Zoidberg View Post
    It's in Canada isn't it?
    you can get "underground" (cough cough like on the street) magazines and books with "banned" info easier than a pirate dvd where i am from. Google shamelessly sold itself for $ from the start, versus millions who actually do something to spread information. Why do i pity google?

    agreed?

    Quote Originally Posted by scottypd54 View Post
    the US government is dominated by liberals, which luckily, are beginning to lose ground. At the moment they hold over 2/3 majority in congress and the president is a freaking far-left/liberal guy.

    I'm only 15 bub. I don't go to any conferences. I simply have an interest in history and politics.
    wow you know less about your own country american than china. That's impressive.

    no they don't hold 2/3 majority lmao. They have 60 seats out of 100 in the senate. That's 2/3?

    does california still teach math?
    Last edited by John Wayne; January 15, 2010 at 12:12 PM.
    Have a question about China? Get your answer here.

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    Default Re: Google May Leave China After Chinese Government Caught Hacking into GMAIL

    Quote Originally Posted by bushbush View Post
    ya i bet his brilliant questioning is cutting the deficit for california RIGHT NOW.
    Well, maybe not his per se... but the principal stands.

    Quote Originally Posted by bushbush View Post
    Sure, but i am not crying over a company that has sold itself to censorship from the start.
    Neither am I. Google lost all credibility in this matter the minute they sold themselves out to get into the market. And backing out now 'as a sign of protest' will do nothing. You're right when you say the market will just be filled by other companies. The only way to potentially affect change would be if ALL foreign companies pulled out over censorship requirements. But as has already been pointed out, there are plenty of Chinese companies waiting to take over.
    Young lady, I am an expert on humans. Now pick a mouth, open it and say "brglgrglgrrr"!

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    Default Re: Google May Leave China After Chinese Government Caught Hacking into GMAIL

    Quote Originally Posted by bushbush View Post
    oh wait what? Google wasn't there when i learned everything you would never know about china lmao. I love silly westerners telling me where my freedom is.
    you don't live in china, after all

  12. #12

    Default Re: Google May Leave China After Chinese Government Caught Hacking into GMAIL

    Quote Originally Posted by aqd View Post
    you don't live in china, after all
    meh back and forth these days. I guess my freedom meter goes up and down.
    Have a question about China? Get your answer here.

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    Default Re: Google May Leave China After Chinese Government Caught Hacking into GMAIL

    Quote Originally Posted by bushbush View Post
    oh wait what? Google wasn't there when i learned everything you would never know about china lmao. I love silly westerners telling me where my freedom is.
    You'll have freedom...

    So long as you aren't a chinese humanist-activist

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    Default Re: Google May Leave China After Chinese Government Caught Hacking into GMAIL

    google will be back in china within the next 6 months
    y'll see
    and i'll be laughing about it into my beer

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    Default Re: Google May Leave China After Chinese Government Caught Hacking into GMAIL

    Quote Originally Posted by Exarch View Post
    google will be back in china within the next 6 months
    y'll see
    and i'll be laughing about it into my beer
    i doubt they will even leave. They know baidu will take the 300 million customer market. And google will cry.

    Quote Originally Posted by scottypd54 View Post
    I still don't understand why you wouldn't criticize the chinese government though for hacking into Gmail to read the emails of chinese-human-activists. It's illegal, and you act as if "Oh, no big deal"
    i dont really devote my attention to these pissy issues. Big things are happening at the top and focus on those. gmail accounts and me pissing over it won't change anything. Pay attention to where the real changes are giong on.
    Last edited by bushbush; January 13, 2010 at 01:27 AM.
    Have a question about China? Get your answer here.

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    Default Re: Google May Leave China After Chinese Government Caught Hacking into GMAIL

    Quote Originally Posted by bushbush View Post
    i doubt they will even leave. They know baidu will take the 300 million customer market. And google will cry.
    that's the thing;
    companies know if they want to be relevant in the 21st century they need the chinese market;
    until google actually physically moves out-again doubtful since they';ll also want to flog their new phone in china-i'm not taking thier move that seriously.

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    Default Re: Google May Leave China After Chinese Government Caught Hacking into GMAIL

    Quote Originally Posted by scottypd54 View Post
    Oh yeah that's right. In China one person CAN'T make a difference.
    do you know what are the big issues and what's "top" mean?

    sigh, come back to me when you can count again. You haven' t explained to me why 60 out of 100 senate seats is a 2/3 majority yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by scottypd54 View Post
    hey! I'm korean. I've heard that the korean soaps are good. I've never watched any... but many people say they are good.

    What's "the bold and the beautiful"?
    omg you are korean? Join me then, asians who can't do math.
    Last edited by bushbush; January 13, 2010 at 01:44 AM.
    Have a question about China? Get your answer here.

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    Default Re: Google May Leave China After Chinese Government Caught Hacking into GMAIL

    Quote Originally Posted by bushbush View Post
    i dont really devote my attention to these pissy issues. Big things are happening at the top and focus on those. gmail accounts and me pissing over it won't change anything. Pay attention to where the real changes are giong on.
    Great consequences arise from trivial actions, or so the old adage goes.

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    Default Re: Google May Leave China After Chinese Government Caught Hacking into GMAIL

    Quote Originally Posted by bushbush View Post
    i doubt they will even leave. They know baidu will take the 300 million customer market. And google will cry.
    Actually, China is a very very small portion of Google's income. It's profit per year is about 26 billion US dollars. It only makes 600 million US dollars in china. China is of little profit to google. So Google won't cry, especially cause few outside know of baidu and its business will remain isolated in china. I didn't hear of baidu till I heard about this whole china-google fiasco.

    Just because there's more people doesn't mean its a bigger market. The US contributes a hell of a lot more to google then any other nation even if it's population contribution is less. An American's per capita profit for google is much higher then a chinese per capita profit.
    “When my information changes, I alter my conclusions.” ― John Maynard Keynes

  20. #20

    Default Re: Google May Leave China After Chinese Government Caught Hacking into GMAIL

    Quote Originally Posted by scottypd54 View Post
    Actually, China is a very very small portion of Google's income. It's profit per year is about 26 billion US dollars. It only makes 600 million US dollars in china. China is of little profit to google. So Google won't cry, especially cause few outside know of baidu and its business will remain isolated in china. I didn't hear of baidu till I heard about this whole china-google fiasco.
    no they will be back, it's about the potential. If you know anything about investing in a new country, at first it's always difficult because you need to get your name out there first. Google right now is being bullied by Baidu. It's sad that they don't give a rat-ass about free speech until they start losing money.

    Quote Originally Posted by scottypd54 View Post
    Just because there's more people doesn't mean its a bigger market. The US contributes a hell of a lot more to google then any other nation even if it's population contribution is less. An American's per capita profit for google is much higher then a chinese per capita profit.
    that's cuz it's much more popular in the US. Google only has 30% of China's market of over 300 million users. And yes, more people = more market for internet lmao.

    ok boy, after you finish learning math (you still haven't explained to me how 60 out of 100 senators = 2/3 majority yet), you can learn some basic economics.
    Have a question about China? Get your answer here.

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