The Human organism, perspective and it's end.

[Kjertesvein]

Some times I like to take things into perspective... Like the human population What are we? Bacteria? Or a Virus?

Warning: metaphor for the word virus/bacteria, not a hollywood plauge of zombies.


(1 Europe. 2 London. 3 North america. 4 LA )



Either way, how does isolated virus'/bacteria's end? Do they over populate? Ever lasting organism? Canibalism? Evolution.... (Now I'm not the guy that use philosophy and mumbo jumbo about the human matrix, I just like to look at this from a perspective of actual examples), if it can be compared? (there is no time limit to this question).

I'm just lifting the valve of the 'steamer of thoughts' here, specially when I can't get my time on the pillow

I'm I on lost roads and cocco for cocco pops, or do some one have any knowledge to my initial questions.

~Wille

[Fiyenyaa]

You know, when I see these photos of giant cities, of the earth lit up with artificial light, I don't see a "human plague" which has taken over the earth - I see a visual representation of progress.
Obviously there is such a thing as Hubris, and to arrogantly assume all problems will be solved because humans are just that brilliant is foolish - but I see absolutely nothing productive at all in the frame of mind where humans have become something evil to the world, and that we need to live simply without impacting upon the planet in any way.
We need to foster human creativity, innovation, and intellect; then the world will continue to improve as it has since the first person found out that banging some rocks over some twigs made fire.

[ROFL Copter]

Nah, I say we're screwed. Those pictures are just insane.

[Phier]

The pictures themselves are deceptive, I assume due to a scattering of the light.

I live in one of the brightest spots, and my state is smack dab in the middle of the heart of the US's bright area.

We have PLENTY of open land. Leave the Chicago area and you are in BFE.

[The.Delegate]

What I see from those pictures is a reminder of the progress that humanity has made over the time of our existence, but also a reminder of the incredibly huge impact we have on the natural environment.

Humans aren't bad or good, we're not out to destroy nature or be a plague on the Earth, we're just trying to make a living. The fact that the Earth at night viewed from space looks like this is a testament to our ingenuity and ability to overcome obstacles.

[Kjertesvein]

Not peticulary satisfied, anyhow, I think we are one big pile of the same organism. Desperate for social gatherings and less responsible the bigger this collective gathering get.

Our generation cyckle is just 500 000 times slower then commen bacteria (20years/20min):

[removeduser_487563287433]

Some times I like to take things into perspective... Like the human population What are we? Bacteria? Or a Virus?

Warning: metaphor for the word virus/bacteria, not a hollywood plauge of zombies.


(1 Europe. 2 London. 3 North america. 4 LA )



Either way, how does isolated virus'/bacteria's end? Do they over populate? Ever lasting organism? Canibalism? Evolution.... (Now I'm not the guy that use philosophy and mumbo jumbo about the human matrix, I just like to look at this from a perspective of actual examples), if it can be compared? (there is no time limit to this question).

I'm just lifting the valve of the 'steamer of thoughts' here, specially when I can't get my time on the pillow

I'm I on lost roads and cocco for cocco pops, or do some one have any knowledge to my initial questions.

~Wille

I think the Wachowski brothers are in my top ten people who should be killed.

[Helm]

What he said.

[Monarchist]

Well, all I can say is "thank God I'm no atheist" in this matter! A person who believes we are not really individuals, but more part of an "organic whole", is probably a godless person. Even regardless of God, it's obvious that one little smattering of electro-magnetic pulse airbursts would cancel the last 100 years of "progress" in about one week. We can never be so proud of ourselves as that, and the only way to avoid the hubris which leads to mass chaos is to be more religious than not. I look at those pictures of electric grids and say "so God really does exist!", but an atheist looks at the grids and says "boy, I really hate our species." Aren't we just a blight on the Earth? A virus? Bacteria? Evil? What nonsense!

[Fiyenyaa]

I look at those pictures of electric grids and say "so God really does exist!",

So electric lights prove god? Did he only come into existence once they were invented? What about if everyone started using candles instead? What a weird thing to say.

but an atheist looks at the grids and says "boy, I really hate our species." Aren't we just a blight on the Earth? A virus? Bacteria? Evil? What nonsense!

Way to ignore what I wrote. At least one atheist disagrees with your mad conclusion of what you imagine we all think.

[Monarchist]

So electric lights prove god? Did he only come into existence once they were invented? What about if everyone started using candles instead? What a weird thing to say.

No. It's not the electric lights, and there is no causality in this. Don't be so sarcastic. It's a beautiful, poetic inspiration I'm talking about here. Obviously modern lightning doesn't prove God; it's the magnificence of it all that brought me to say what I said. It's awe, sheer awe!

Way to ignore what I wrote. At least one atheist disagrees with your mad conclusion of what you imagine we all think.

I didn't ignore what you wrote because I didn't read what you wrote. My response was to the O.P., because it has become obvious to me that most threads are off the original topic by about the 10th post. I decided only to respond to what the O.P. said, and thus only read the O.P. Don't assume that you're so important; after all, my post wasn't directed to anyone in particular. You simply assumed I was responding to you specifically.

... I'd say that this last part does incur arrogance as it assumes humans may comprehend an absolute truth, which to any rational mind is clearly impossible as we'd have to reach a Nirvana type state of consciousness.

I don't believe that. I may prove to you that a chair we're both looking at exists by allowing you to smell the odor of the wood, touch its surface, sit upon it, etc. You just had to throw in the phrase "any rational mind..." to make people who believe in epistemological certainty look stupid.

Most theists are arrogant for this reason, as its not that they believe in a god but hold one to be definitely certain, wheras even the most 'extreme' of atheists would generally say that they do not hold a god to be 100% untrue.

Creationism is also arrogant because it holds that we are here for a purpose, and thus have transcendental significance.

What is wrong with purpose? Why is it wicked arrogance to assume that X must do Y? We make jacks-in-the-box for the purpose of frightening or amusing children. God made us for a specific purpose, whatever it is. That is what theists believe, and it isn't arrogant. A postulation isn't inherently haughty, for goodness' sake.

In the end, why do you atheists care about arrogance? Shouldn't you judge people by what they do, not by their motivations, and all that? There's no "magic sky wizard" threatening you with punishment, so why even argue? You argue because something - some urge to find truth - pushes you to seek what you know is right. What is that something? It can't be the truth itself. That would be like the piano keys telling you which keys to press, or like the sheet music making the music by itself. The notes of the keyboard cannot in themselves show you what to play, so something outside the urge is directing the urge.

( 10 posts before a religious flame war sure must be a record )

No flame wars will begin when I am around, friend. I despise the idea of sustained character assassination just to feel good about myself.

Well, (it seems) you do have an obligation to plauge us with that in every matter.

Yes, and I could just as easily say that you atheists have an obligation to plague us in every matter, too! What a shame that we're right and you're wrong!

I doubt 100 years of progress will be the down fall, tho I get your point about an uncontrollable event may strike down upon humanity. Not humans doing the fatal error. Also that many people (at the moment) depend on a social security net of confidence (religion).

The problem is that we human beings have not yet advanced our morals, generally speaking, sufficiently to deal with the advance in technology. We remain fallen beings, still in the same state we were when the Garden was closed to us. Electromagnetic Pulse Bombs are the result of our moral bankruptcy not having become solvent at the same rate that our technological poverty has done so. Then again, even if human beings had absolutely no technological development whatsoever, there are nearby stars just waiting to end their lives in supernovae. If one supergiant of even remote proximity to Earth explodes, within a few months the intense bluish heat wave would reach Earth and melt metal in an instant. All life would be destroyed in the literal time that it takes for a human being to blink an eye.

How interesting that this hasn't happened yet.

It's pictures of human development. Btw: If it's good, bad or evil (towards our self) is mostly your own interpitation.

~Wille

Not in the religious person's view! "Good" is not interpretive - A is good, and B is not good.

I think atheists make too much of a deal about religion. Religious people have certainly taken humanity a long way to the current state of our technology. All those beautiful cathedrals you atheists look at while touring in France were inspired by men with absolute religious certainty. We seriously need to stop arguing about this, shake hands, and part ways on the issue. Neither side will convince the other, and the 'flame wars' just create more venom. Oh, and please do something about Hitchens.

[Fiyenyaa]

I didn't ignore what you wrote because I didn't read what you wrote. My response was to the O.P., because it has become obvious to me that most threads are off the original topic by about the 10th post. I decided only to respond to what the O.P. said, and thus only read the O.P. Don't assume that you're so important; after all, my post wasn't directed to anyone in particular. You simply assumed I was responding to you specifically.

Ugh. Sorry for assuming that a thready 10 posts long may just be short enough to read. And I didn't think you were replying to me specificially (otherwise you may have used the rather natty little 'quote' feature I hear they use around here) - I was trying to illustrate that there is at least one dissenter to your imagined atheist who values no life.

[Desperado †]

I don't believe that. I may prove to you that a chair we're both looking at exists by allowing you to smell the odor of the wood, touch its surface, sit upon it, etc. You just had to throw in the phrase "any rational mind..." to make people who believe in epistemological certainty look stupid.

Sure, you can prove that the chair exists if by prove you mean certify it beyond reasonable doubt (wherever you decide to draw that line), but you cannot prove that it 100% exists - that it is an absolute truth. That is impossible without us being omniscient.

What is wrong with purpose? Why is it wicked arrogance to assume that X must do Y? We make jacks-in-the-box for the purpose of frightening or amusing children. God made us for a specific purpose, whatever it is. That is what theists believe, and it isn't arrogant. A postulation isn't inherently haughty, for goodness' sake.

If we have a specific universal purpose then we have specific universal importance, which is arrogant considering that we can't know this.

[chamaeleo]

Sure, you can prove that the chair exists if by prove you mean certify it beyond reasonable doubt (wherever you decide to draw that line), but you cannot prove that it 100% exists - that it is an absolute truth. That is impossible without us being omniscient.

"I sit, therefore it IS"...?

If we have a specific universal purpose then we have specific universal importance, which is arrogant considering that we can't know this.

We're even so special that there's a Heaven, especially for us! Stupid Godless animals, doomed to extinction with no hopes for salvation...as dictated by our Divine right to all of Earth, with all else Given to us to enhance His personal entertainment experience!!!

Nawwwww...that's not arrogance...

[Desperado †]

Well, all I can say is "thank God I'm no atheist" in this matter! A person who believes we are not really individuals, but more part of an "organic whole", is probably a godless person. Even regardless of God, it's obvious that one little smattering of electro-magnetic pulse airbursts would cancel the last 100 years of "progress" in about one week. We can never be so proud of ourselves as that, and the only way to avoid the hubris which leads to mass chaos is to be more religious than not. I look at those pictures of electric grids and say "so God really does exist!", but an atheist looks at the grids and says "boy, I really hate our species." Aren't we just a blight on the Earth? A virus? Bacteria? Evil? What nonsense!

Not true at all. Religion can be about anything, and can hence promote human arrogance concerning our importance (e.g Christianity: humans are the most important part of creation) or demote it (Jesus saying to live humbly, f.e).

The only thing that remains constant in religion is its conformity around an absolute truth - and I'd say that this last part does incur arrogance as it assumes humans may comprehend an absolute truth, which to any rational mind is clearly impossible as we'd have to reach a Nirvana type state of consciousness.

Most theists are arrogant for this reason, as its not that they believe in a god but hold one to be definitely certain, wheras even the most 'extreme' of atheists would generally say that they do not hold a god to be 100% untrue.

Creationism is also arrogant because it holds that we are here for a purpose, and thus have transcendental significance.

[Kjertesvein]

( 10 posts before a religious flame war sure must be a record )

Well, all I can say is "thank God I'm no atheist" in this matter!

Well, (it seems) you do have an obligation to plauge us with that in every matter.

A person who believes we are not really individuals, but more part of an "organic whole", is probably a godless person. Even regardless of God, it's obvious that one little smattering of electro-magnetic pulse airbursts would cancel the last 100 years of "progress" in about one week. We can never be so proud of ourselves as that, and the only way to avoid the hubris which leads to mass chaos is to be more religious than not.

I doubt 100 years of progress will be the down fall, tho I get your point about an uncontrollable event may strike down upon humanity. Not humans doing the fatal error. Also that many people (at the moment) depend on a social security net of confidence (religion).

I look at those pictures of electric grids and say "so God really does exist!", but an atheist looks at the grids and says "boy, I really hate our species." Aren't we just a blight on the Earth? A virus? Bacteria? Evil? What nonsense!

It's pictures of human development. Btw: If it's good, bad or evil (towards our self) is mostly your own interpitation.

~Wille

[Copperknickers II]

Well, all I can say is "thank God I'm no atheist" in this matter! A person who believes we are not really individuals, but more part of an "organic whole", is probably a godless person.

I believe both. What does that make me?

Even regardless of God, it's obvious that one little smattering of electro-magnetic pulse airbursts would cancel the last 100 years of "progress" in about one week. I look at those pictures of electric grids and say "so God really does exist!", but an atheist looks at the grids and says "boy, I really hate our species." Aren't we just a blight on the Earth? A virus? Bacteria? Evil? What nonsense!

Nonsense is it? I think it is nonsense that religious people can stand there, ankle deep in rising sea levels and human garbage and untreated sewage and thermosetting plastics, and argue that humans are some kind of sacred blessing. We have destroyed our environment, we should respect nature, not take the Abrahamic view that nature is our playground and humans are the supreme beings. We are just chemically animated organic matter, that is all, and perhaps if people got off their pedestals, they could see what their actions' consequences are at ground level. But then i suppose it doesn't matter to you, you have an entire afterlife to look forward to so the mortal experience of earth does not concern you.

[The Dude]

Nonsense is it? I think it is nonsense that religious people can stand there, ankle deep in rising sea levels and human garbage and untreated sewage and thermosetting plastics, and argue that humans are some kind of sacred blessing. We have destroyed our environment, we should respect nature, not take the Abrahamic view that nature is our playground and humans are the supreme beings. We are just chemically animated organic matter, that is all, and perhaps if people got off their pedestals, they could see what their actions' consequences are at ground level. But then i suppose it doesn't matter to you, you have an entire afterlife to look forward to so the mortal experience of earth does not concern you.

Completely agreed. Have some rep!

[Helm]

We are just chemically animated organic matter, that is all

I'd say we're more than the sum of our parts, but fair enough that we should try not to trash our own home, it's the only planet we have to live on right now.

[chamaeleo]

Is the question virus vs bacteria? Or is there even a question?

Kinda like London:

Viruses cannot reproduce on their own, so my vote is for bacteria.

...to all the theists who're perturbed by the reduction of humanity into a microbial analogy: you have no imagination, and no sense of scale...temporal, nor spatial. Haven't you ever seen ripple marks in the sediment of a running stream or a sand-dune...


...looked upwards, and seen the exact same patterns in the sky?


You're far too wrapped up in your own self-importance, to realize that patterns exist which transcend your petty human existence. Once you stop looking to use God as the universal cause for everything, you'll be truly amazed by what the universe has created in its own mindless way. I pity you.