Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 62

Thread: Catholic ban on women priests 'illegal under Harriet Harman equality bill'(UK)

Hybrid View

Previous Post Previous Post   Next Post Next Post
  1. #1
    Ebusitanus's Avatar Senator
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Insula Augusta
    Posts
    1,334

    Default Catholic ban on women priests 'illegal under Harriet Harman equality bill'(UK)

    Catholic ban on women priests 'illegal under Harriet Harman equality bill'

    The Roman Catholic ban on women entering the priesthood will become illegal under Harriet Harman's controversial Equality Bill, according to Christian charity, CARE.

    By Patrick Hennessy, Political editor
    Published: 8:00AM GMT 10 Jan 2010


    A new report by the leading charity – backed by a legal opinion from a leading QC – says the Bill will make it impossible for all churches and faith-based charities to insist that their senior staff lead private lives in accordance with their religious beliefs.

    CARE said that, under the Bill, which will be considered by the House of Lords on Monday, it would be illegal for a Christian charity to sack a senior manager for adultery or living an openly gay lifestyle.


    The same rules would, it added, apply to Muslim and Jewish churches and charities.

    However, the biggest potential showdown is likely to be between the government and Britain's 4.3 million Catholics over the church's tradition of an all-male, celibate priesthood.

    Previous legislation in 2007, also backed by Ms Harman, the Commons Leader and equality minister, forced the closure of two Catholic adoption agencies for refusing to comply with new laws requiring them to place children with gay couples.

    CARE's report – A Little Bit Against Discrimination? – warns that the proposals contained in the Bill are a serious threat to religious liberty in Britain.
    John Bowers QC said in a legal opinion for CARE that the Bill could make it unlawful for a church to require a priest or minister to be male, celibate and unmarried, or not in a civil partnership.

    When the Bill, which aims to wrap up all existing equality legislation in one piece of law, was debated in the Commons, ministers MPs tabled more than 100 amendments to it – but ministers imposed a "guillotine" on the Bill and prevented most of them being discussed.

    The report's author, Dr Daniel Boucher, said: ''The Equality Bill is a direct assault on the freedom of all faith-based organisations, from churches to charities. This Bill will make it unlawful for those organisations to employ people who are committed to a particular set of religious beliefs.
    "This Bill in its current form is a further blow to the faith-based voluntary sector and will leave many people unable to access services they always have.

    "This legislation must be revised to recognise our plural society. It must recognise that there are many people in our country who have deeply held religious views and convictions, rather than trying to impose some modern day Stalinistic version of society where there is only ever one view that is right, the Government's."

    Overall, the Bill is designed to deliver greater equality between people of different gender, race, religion and class.

    However, it has attracted criticism, particularly from businesses. It paves the way for 'gender pay audits' in large companies, obliging employers to disclose the average hourly pay they award male and female workers.

    The planned legislation would also allow employers to give preference to female or non-white job applicants over equally qualified white men.

    Public bodies would have a legal duty to narrow the gap between the rich and poor in the provision of services. For example, local authorities would be expected to do more to help children from poorer backgrounds.
    If passed, the Bill could also oblige public sector bodies to consider the "gender balance" among employees of companies bidding for all government contracts.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...lity-bill.html

    How much chance does something like this have of passing? What do some of our posters who live there think?

    I am amused once again by the idea that the people who support and impose this kind of thing on society are open minded and tolerant. How can they even continue to make such claims with a straight face when it could not be more obvious that their ideal society would be one where no one is allowed to live according to anything other than their views. When they seek to enforce their views on every segment of society with the threat of the power of the state?
    Last edited by Ebusitanus; January 11, 2010 at 12:22 PM.
    Read a napoleonic first hand account of a Hessian serving under the french flag

    Athenians: For ourselves, we shall not trouble you with specious pretenses - either of how we have a right to our empire because we overthrew the Mede, or are now attacking you because of wrong that you have done us- and make a long speech which would not be believed;.......... since you know as well as we do that right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.

    Part of the Melian Dialogue in The History of the Pelopenessian War by Thucydides.

  2. #2
    JP226's Avatar Dux Limitis
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    16,973

    Default Re: Catholic ban on women priests 'illegal under Harriet Harman equality bill'(UK)

    There the brits go again, screwing around with the Catholic Church
    Sure I've been called a xenophobe, but the truth is Im not. I honestly feel that America is the best country and all other countries aren't as good. That used to be called patriotism.

  3. #3
    The Fishman's Avatar Senator
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Airstrip One.
    Posts
    1,006

    Icon1 Re: Catholic ban on women priests 'illegal under Harriet Harman equality bill'(UK)

    I think religious organisations should have some exemptions to equality laws. A Church should be able to fire a Priest for being a Muslim, for example.
    "Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones."

    - Marcus Aurelius, Roman Emperor from 161 AD to 180 AD

  4. #4

    Default Re: Catholic ban on women priests 'illegal under Harriet Harman equality bill'(UK)

    Quote Originally Posted by JP226 View Post
    There the brits go again, screwing around with the Catholic Church
    At least THIS time it doesn't involve murdering them.
    "When I die, I want to die peacefully in my sleep, like Fidel Castro, not screaming in terror, like his victims."

    My shameful truth.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Catholic ban on women priests 'illegal under Harriet Harman equality bill'(UK)

    Quote Originally Posted by Phier View Post
    At least THIS time it doesn't involve murdering them.

    or geting murdered by them, having a series of monarchs (all children of Henry VIII) who couldn't make their damned minds up one even earning the name 'Bloody Mary' for her Catholic extremism and mass burnings, her brother having been a protestant and almost as bad the other way, then Elizabeth the first cooling things down for a while before the pope decided it was every catholics duty to kill her, and on and on, for the next century or so right up to William of Orange. Yea, english wars of religion, we kinda got good at killing each other over what particular brand we followed.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Catholic ban on women priests 'illegal under Harriet Harman equality bill'(UK)

    I don't think I've ever heard any justification for Women not being allowed to be Priests other than 'Just because'.

    Stick it to those papists, Harman. She has the humourless feminist thing down to an art, so my moneys' on her.
    'When people stop believing in God, they don’t believe in nothing — they believe in anything. '

    -Emile Cammaerts' book The Laughing Prophets (1937)

    Under the patronage of Nihil. So there.

  7. #7
    Praefectus
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    in my mother's basement, on disability.
    Posts
    6,598

    Default Re: Catholic ban on women priests 'illegal under Harriet Harman equality bill'(UK)

    Quote Originally Posted by Markas View Post
    I don't think I've ever heard any justification for Women not being allowed to be Priests other than 'Just because'.

    Stick it to those papists, Harman. She has the humourless feminist thing down to an art, so my moneys' on her.
    The original reason was that they did not want heirs and wives getting their hands on the wealth of the church. There are ways around such things in the modern age however.

    They should let it go. Keeping it men only and more importantly, stopping them from marrying, just means you are more likely to get weirdos and pervs as catholic priests than regular religious men.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Catholic ban on women priests 'illegal under Harriet Harman equality bill'(UK)

    I would be 100% for this if they would then then force Muslim males to accept female Imam's leading in their prayer
    "When I die, I want to die peacefully in my sleep, like Fidel Castro, not screaming in terror, like his victims."

    My shameful truth.

  9. #9
    Fiyenyaa's Avatar Vicarius
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Birmingham, United Kingdom
    Posts
    2,664

    Default Re: Catholic ban on women priests 'illegal under Harriet Harman equality bill'(UK)

    Quote Originally Posted by Phier View Post
    I would be 100% for this if they would then then force Muslim males to accept female Imam's leading in their prayer
    Seconded. It needs to be applied equally to all religions/employers.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Catholic ban on women priests 'illegal under Harriet Harman equality bill'(UK)

    Quote Originally Posted by Phier View Post
    I would be 100% for this if they would then then force Muslim males to accept female Imam's leading in their prayer
    Will never happen, Muslims will just ignore the law. And rightfully so. It is our religion, leave us to it.

  11. #11
    Arch-hereticK's Avatar Indefinitely Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    your mom's bum (aka Ireland.)
    Posts
    4,788

    Default Re: Catholic ban on women priests 'illegal under Harriet Harman equality bill'(UK)

    Quote Originally Posted by Adhamh Ashashi View Post
    Will never happen, Muslims will just ignore the law. And rightfully so. It is our religion, leave us to it.
    Never!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  12. #12

    Default Re: Catholic ban on women priests 'illegal under Harriet Harman equality bill'(UK)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ebusitanus View Post
    Catholic ban on women priests 'illegal under Harriet Harman equality bill'



    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...lity-bill.html

    How much chance does something like this have of passing? What do some of our posters who live there think?

    I am amused once again by the idea that the people who support and impose this kind of thing on society are open minded and tolerant. How can they even continue to make such claims with a straight face when it could not be more obvious that their ideal society would be one where no one is allowed to live according to anything other than their views. When they seek to enforce their views on every segment of society with the threat of the power of the state?

    simple, no woman would ever want to be a catholic priest, if the doctorine is fair and just, right? So it's a none issue if they technically can. Besides given that the church hasn't been prosecuted for obstructing the course of justice for deliberatly covering up peadophila, i'd shut up if I was them, before the entire hierachy gets jailed for supporting the rape of children.
    Last edited by justicar5; January 11, 2010 at 12:42 PM.

  13. #13
    Arch-hereticK's Avatar Indefinitely Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    your mom's bum (aka Ireland.)
    Posts
    4,788

    Default Re: Catholic ban on women priests 'illegal under Harriet Harman equality bill'(UK)

    The catholic church is a business and should follow the rules just like everyone else. People make me sick when they cllaim they deserve special treatment because of their special beliefs, well they are special alright.

    A church should not be able discriminate against the minorities it doesn't like. This is a good step in the right direction, even if it is 30 years behind civilisation, it's still trying.

  14. #14
    Yorkshireman's Avatar Praefectus
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Leeds, Yorkshire, England
    Posts
    6,232

    Default Re: Catholic ban on women priests 'illegal under Harriet Harman equality bill'(UK)

    According to this paragraph in the Catholic Herald as long as your main employment is with the church you would'nt face any action under the new legislation. Though the chuch sources challenge this.

    The Government has denied that the Bill would have such a damaging impact on the Church. “The definition of employment ‘for the purposes of organised religion’ in paragraph 2 (8) of Schedule 9 in the Equality Bill covers ministers of religion such as Catholic priests,” a spokesman said. “The Solicitor General [Vera Baird] explicitly clarified this during the Commons Public Bill Committee.”

    In their correspondence with Church leaders civil servants have insisted that as long as all priests spent at least 51 per cent of their time leading worship and preaching the Gospel the Church would be protected from hostile legal actions.
    http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/articles/a0000704.shtml

    Would this law affect other religions too ? The Catholic church is'nt the only male dominated religion in the UK.

  15. #15
    The Fishman's Avatar Senator
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Airstrip One.
    Posts
    1,006

    Icon1 Re: Catholic ban on women priests 'illegal under Harriet Harman equality bill'(UK)

    Quote Originally Posted by Arch-hereticK View Post
    The catholic church is a business and should follow the rules just like everyone else. People make me sick when they cllaim they deserve special treatment because of their special beliefs, well they are special alright.

    A church should not be able discriminate against the minorities it doesn't like. This is a good step in the right direction, even if it is 30 years behind civilisation, it's still trying.
    The Catholic Church isn't really a business like any other business, it is an organisation for people with particular opinions like a political party. Interferring with it in a way that makes it contradict it's own beliefs is kinda silly.

    I have no problem with women as priests myself, but then I'm not a Christian.
    "Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones."

    - Marcus Aurelius, Roman Emperor from 161 AD to 180 AD

  16. #16
    Arch-hereticK's Avatar Indefinitely Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    your mom's bum (aka Ireland.)
    Posts
    4,788

    Default Re: Catholic ban on women priests 'illegal under Harriet Harman equality bill'(UK)

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fishman View Post
    The Catholic Church isn't really a business like any other business, it is an organisation for people with particular opinions like a political party. Interferring with it in a way that makes it contradict it's own beliefs is kinda silly.

    I have no problem with women as priests myself, but then I'm not a Christian.
    But it employs people and makes money like a business and should be subject to the laws as such.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Catholic ban on women priests 'illegal under Harriet Harman equality bill'(UK)

    Quote Originally Posted by Arch-hereticK View Post
    The catholic church is a business and should follow the rules just like everyone else. People make me sick when they cllaim they deserve special treatment because of their special beliefs, well they are special alright.

    A church should not be able discriminate against the minorities it doesn't like. This is a good step in the right direction, even if it is 30 years behind civilisation, it's still trying.
    i think people should be allowed to discriminate, everyone does, if i own a business and dont want to let people in my business who smell like ass and are rude than i should be able to discriminate against them, if i dont want to allow women into my mens athletic club than damnit its my club and i should be able to run it as i want. Only Government run entities should have anti-discrimination laws, but private companies should be able to discriminate all they please.
    Last edited by Pickle_mole; January 12, 2010 at 01:56 PM.
    I come in peace, I didn't bring artillery. But I am pleading with you with tears in my eyes: If you F___ with me, I'll kill you all.
    - Marine General James Mattis, to Iraqi tribal leaders

    Nostalgia aint as good as it used to be

  18. #18

    Default Re: Catholic ban on women priests 'illegal under Harriet Harman equality bill'(UK)

    The female priests may be adverse to fidling kids, the catholic church doesn't want that.
    Hammer & Sickle - Karacharovo

    And I drank it strait down.

  19. #19
    tonymurphy1888's Avatar Senator
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Scotland
    Posts
    1,466

    Default Re: Catholic ban on women priests 'illegal under Harriet Harman equality bill'(UK)

    Oh co'mon! They always ruin stuff by going to far... Damn Brits. lol
    Yes, friends, governments in capitalist society are but committees of the rich to manage the affairs of the capitalist class.
    -James Connolly

  20. #20
    s.rwitt's Avatar Shamb Conspiracy Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Lubbock, Tx
    Posts
    21,514

    Default Re: Catholic ban on women priests 'illegal under Harriet Harman equality bill'(UK)

    Personally I think it's wrong for women not to have the chance to be priests BUT it's even more wrong for the government to dictate church policy. Pressure for this sort of change should come from Catholic church members and private volunteer groups, not Parliment. Britain seems to have a very strange way of dealing with percieved bigotry/'hate'.

    This, the banning of controversial (non-criminal) figures from entering the UK, and the recent debate over whether or not Islam4UK should be able to march show that plus the ensueing ban on that group prove that. Attempting to stop racism/bigotry by making it a punishable crime is not only wrong, it's totally unrealistic.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •