Strategically, what hurts the AI the most on vh/vh?

[tallstark]

There are a number of things the AI does to me that KILL me, but when I do the same thing, it doesn't really seem to matter. Examples would be:

• Blockading ports - I am playing Gondor, and if Harad blocks all my ports, my economy is really hurt bad, but given the AI free gold, it hurts me more in maintenece fees on the navies than it does Harad. AI seems to really have limitless gold.
• Winning the big battle - If I send 3 stacks to Black Gate and we get wiped, there is a good chance I just lost the whole campaign, since it will take me turns and turns to recover. However if I wipe out AI stacks, 3 turns later there are several more.
• Killing Nazgul vs killing Boromir - obvious. One is gone forever, the other comes back, which is as it should be.

I am not complaining, just trying to figure out exactly where the AI is vulnerable on the strategic side of the game so I can have a plan. Just a couple of random questions:

1. Does the AI need to have the right buildings close by to spawn a stack or no? For instance in any city I sack from troll building faction, I destroy troll cages.
2. How much extra gold do they get, and does it ever change? Does it go up as time goes by or say is it 10,000 per turn independant of its economy?
3. I understand garrison script and actually I like it! Regarding stacks popping up from Mordor tho, I get confused. Do they actually get built somewhere based on gold and buildings available, or are they a 'general garrison' type script, where every few turns Mordor can pop a stack?

My basic strategy is to expand to natural choke points, turtle down there while building economy and winning all my siege defense battles, then sending spies/scouts to find where the AI left itself unguarded. Send a siege attack stack along with an extra stack to fill the settlement to defend it, and repeat. Any other suggestions?

[Baron Samedi]

Does the AI need to have the right buildings close by to spawn a stack or no? For instance in any city I sack from troll building faction, I destroy troll cages.

I took a quick look at the campaign scripts, so if am wrong feel free to correct me:
I don't see any building requirements for a.i. armies to spawn. So I would answer: No.

How much extra gold do they get, and does it ever change? Does it go up as time goes by or say is it 10,000 per turn independant of its economy?

As you indicate, the A.I. gets extra cash each turn. How much?

• Its is based on campaign difficulty --> extra kings purse. --> the more difficult the more each faction gets each turn.
• Its based on the total amount each a.i. faction has. The max is set at 60.000. If a certain factions gets more --> then the total will decreased with 5000. So they wont get an infinite amount of money.
• Its based on the settlements the A.I. has lost. If for instance Rohan loses Edoras, they will get extra armies & money (about 10.000)
• Its based on min. amount of money the ai faction has. When it is lower than 500, they get 10000 extra.
• ....
• ....

I understand garrison script and actually I like it! Regarding stacks popping up from Mordor tho, I get confused. Do they actually get built somewhere based on gold and buildings available, or are they a 'general garrison' type script, where every few turns Mordor can pop a stack?

It is considered as a general garrison script. It is only activated once you besiege a certain A.I. key settlement (not all of them). You can find the extra spawned units in the next turn only in the settlement you besieged.

[tallstark]

I took a quick look at the campaign scripts, so if am wrong feel free to correct me:
I don't see any building requirements for a.i. armies to spawn. So I would answer: No.









As you indicate, the A.I. gets extra cash each turn. How much?

• Its is based on campaign difficulty --> extra kings purse. --> the more difficult the more each faction gets each turn.
• Its based on the total amount each a.i. faction has. The max is set at 60.000. If a certain factions gets more --> then the total will decreased with 5000. So they wont get an infinite amount of money.
• Its based on the settlements the A.I. has lost. If for instance Rohan loses Edoras, they will get extra armies & money (about 10.000)
• Its based on min. amount of money the ai faction has. When it is lower than 500, they get 10000 extra.
• ....
• ....

It is considered as a general garrison script. It is only activated once you besiege a certain A.I. key settlement (not all of them). You can find the extra spawned units in the next turn only in the settlement you besieged.

Good info, thanks for the feedback!

[SigniferOne]

There seems to be a misapprehension that the AI wins its games through 'spawn stack' scripts. Now my information could be outdated as of 1.2 or 1.3, but AI does not script new stacks aside of a few initial turns towards the rebels. As such all of the stacks you see throughout the game are fully legit stacks, and were spawned solely through normal processes of AI operation.

[Twist of Cain]

There seems to be a misapprehension that the AI wins its games through 'spawn stack' scripts. Now my information could be outdated as of 1.2 or 1.3, but AI does not script new stacks aside of a few initial turns towards the rebels. As such all of the stacks you see throughout the game are fully legit stacks, and were spawned solely through normal processes of AI operation.

Not completely accurate. When certain key settlements are taken (such as Gundabad or Moria for OotMM) the original owner AI (not all factions have this) which lost them will get a full stack of units (16 for OotMM) with some experience as well as about 8-10k gold. This happens once for OotMM, Silvans, Isengard and Mordor. Rohan and Gondor can get this effect two times, meaning there are 3 possible "evil" army spawns and 5 possible "good" army spawns, with up to 30k and 50k gold bolstering evil and good armies, respectively, in a defensive fashion. The OotMM spawn compared poorly to the Silvan spawn, not including any trolls and iirc having a purchase value of about 8k vs 14k, again respectively.

Here is the code, please correct me if I am wrong.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

;########################## HELP WEAKENED FACTIONS ###########################
;------------------------- ROHAN --------------------------
declare_counter rohan_weakened
;trigger rohan when Hornburg is lost
monitor_event FactionTurnStart FactionType milan
 and IsFactionAIControlled
 and not I_SettlementOwner Helms-Deep = milan
 
 set_counter rohan_weakened 1
 
 terminate_monitor
end_monitor
;trigger rohan when Edoras is lost
monitor_event FactionTurnStart FactionType milan
 and IsFactionAIControlled
 and not I_SettlementOwner Kings-Land = milan
 
 set_counter rohan_weakened 1
 
 terminate_monitor
end_monitor
 
;trigger rohan when weakened
monitor_event FactionTurnStart FactionType milan
 and IsFactionAIControlled
 and I_NumberOfSettlements milan < 8
 
 set_counter rohan_weakened 1
 
 terminate_monitor
end_monitor
monitor_event FactionTurnStart FactionType milan
 and IsFactionAIControlled
 and I_CompareCounter rohan_weakened = 1
   add_money milan 10000
 spawn_army 
 faction milan
 character random_name, named character, age 30, x 174, y 152, direction NE
 traits LoyaltyStarter 1 , GoodCommander 2 , ReligionStarter 1
  unit rohan bodyguards  exp 3 armour 1 weapon_lvl 0
  unit militia  exp 2 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit militia  exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit warriors  exp 2 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit warriors  exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Special Axemen  exp 2 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Dismounted Eored Lancers  exp 3 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Dismounted Eored Lancers  exp 2 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Rohan Axemen  exp 2 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Rohan Axemen  exp 2 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Rohan Axemen  exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit archers  exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit archers  exp 2 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit rohan rider  exp 3 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit rohan rider  exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit rohan rider  exp 2 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit rohirrim  exp 3 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit eorlingas  exp 2 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit eorlingas  exp 2 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
 end
terminate_monitor
end_monitor
declare_counter rohan_weakened2
;trigger rohan when Eastfold is lost
monitor_event FactionTurnStart FactionType milan
 and IsFactionAIControlled
 and not I_SettlementOwner Eastfold = milan
 and I_CompareCounter rohan_weakened = 1
 
 set_counter rohan_weakened2 1
 
 terminate_monitor
end_monitor
;trigger rohan when more weakened
monitor_event FactionTurnStart FactionType milan
 and IsFactionAIControlled
 and I_NumberOfSettlements milan < 7
 and I_CompareCounter rohan_weakened = 1
 
 set_counter rohan_weakened2 1
 
 terminate_monitor
end_monitor
monitor_event FactionTurnStart FactionType milan
 and IsFactionAIControlled
 and I_CompareCounter rohan_weakened2 = 1
   add_money milan 10000
 spawn_army 
 faction milan
 character random_name, named character, age 28, x 207, y 143, direction NW
 traits LoyaltyStarter 1 , GoodCommander 2 , ReligionStarter 1
  unit rohan bodyguards  exp 3 armour 1 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Dismounted Royal Guard  exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit militia  exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit warriors  exp 2 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit warriors  exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Special Axemen  exp 2 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Dismounted Eored Lancers  exp 3 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Dismounted Eored Lancers  exp 2 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Rohan Axemen  exp 2 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Rohan Axemen  exp 2 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Rohan Axemen  exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit archers  exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit archers  exp 2 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Rohan Horsearchers  exp 3 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit rohan rider  exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit rohan rider  exp 2 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit rohirrim  exp 3 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit eorlingas  exp 2 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit eorlingas  exp 2 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
 end
terminate_monitor
end_monitor
;------------------------- Gondor --------------------------
declare_counter gondor_weakened
;trigger gondor when Minas Tirith is lost
monitor_event FactionTurnStart FactionType sicily
 and IsFactionAIControlled
 and not I_SettlementOwner Anorien = sicily
 
 set_counter gondor_weakened 1
 
 terminate_monitor
end_monitor
;trigger gondor when weakened
monitor_event FactionTurnStart FactionType sicily
 and IsFactionAIControlled
 and I_NumberOfSettlements sicily < 8
 
 set_counter gondor_weakened 1
 
 terminate_monitor
end_monitor
monitor_event FactionTurnStart FactionType sicily
 and IsFactionAIControlled
 and I_CompareCounter gondor_weakened = 1
   add_money sicily 8000
 spawn_army 
 faction sicily
 character Pilimor, named character, age 44, x 233, y 108, direction N
 traits LoyaltyStarter 1 , GoodCommander 2 , ReligionStarter 1
  unit Gondor Bodyguard  exp 3 armour 1 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Kingsguard  exp 3 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Gondor Spearmen  exp 2 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Gondor Spearmen  exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Gondor Infantry  exp 3 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Gondor Infantry  exp 2 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Gondor Infantry  exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Gondor Infantry  exp 2 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Dismounted Kofm  exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Dismounted Kofm  exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Dismounted Kofm  exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Dismounted Kofm  exp 2 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Axemen of Lossarnach  exp 3 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Gondor Archers  exp 2 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Gondor Archers  exp 2 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Ithilien Rangers  exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Ithilien Rangers  exp 4 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Ithilien Rangers  exp 3 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
 end
terminate_monitor
end_monitor
declare_counter gondor_weakened2
;trigger gondor when Tarnost is lost
monitor_event FactionTurnStart FactionType sicily
 and IsFactionAIControlled
 and not I_SettlementOwner Tarnost = sicily
 and I_CompareCounter gondor_weakened = 1
 
 set_counter gondor_weakened2 1
 
 terminate_monitor
end_monitor
;trigger gondor when more weakened
monitor_event FactionTurnStart FactionType sicily
 and IsFactionAIControlled
 and I_NumberOfSettlements sicily < 6
 and I_CompareCounter gondor_weakened = 1
 
 set_counter gondor_weakened2 1
 
 terminate_monitor
end_monitor
monitor_event FactionTurnStart FactionType sicily
 and IsFactionAIControlled
 and I_CompareCounter gondor_weakened2 = 1
   add_money sicily 10000
 spawn_army 
 faction sicily
 character random_name, named character, age 31, x 189, y 96, direction NE
 traits LoyaltyStarter 1 , GoodCommander 2 , ReligionStarter 1
  unit Gondor Bodyguard  exp 3 armour 1 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Kingsguard  exp 3 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Gondor Spearmen  exp 2 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Gondor Spearmen  exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Gondor Infantry  exp 3 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Gondor Infantry  exp 2 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Gondor Infantry  exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Gondor Infantry  exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Gondor Archers  exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Gondor Archers  exp 2 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Marines  exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Marines  exp 2 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Dismounted Kofm  exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Dismounted Kofm  exp 2 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Militia Archers  exp 2 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Militia Archers  exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Ithilien Rangers  exp 4 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Ithilien Rangers  exp 3 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
 end
terminate_monitor
end_monitor
;------------------------- ISENGARD --------------------------
declare_counter isengard_weakened
;trigger isengard when Isengard is lost
monitor_event FactionTurnStart FactionType france
 and IsFactionAIControlled
 and not I_SettlementOwner Nan-Curunir = france
 
 set_counter isengard_weakened 1
 
 terminate_monitor
end_monitor
 
;trigger isengard when weakened
monitor_event FactionTurnStart FactionType france
 and IsFactionAIControlled
 and I_NumberOfSettlements france < 3
 
 set_counter isengard_weakened 1
 
 terminate_monitor
end_monitor
monitor_event FactionTurnStart FactionType france
 and IsFactionAIControlled
 and I_CompareCounter isengard_weakened = 1
   add_money france 10000
 spawn_army 
 faction france
 character random_name, named character, age 27, x 140, y 184, direction E
 traits LoyaltyStarter 1 , GoodCommander 2 , ReligionStarter 1
  unit Uruk-Hai Bodyguards  exp 2 armour 1 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Uruk-Hai Infantry  exp 2 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Uruk-Hai Infantry  exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Dunlendings  exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Dunlendings  exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Uruk-Hai Raiders  exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Uruk-Hai Raiders  exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Uruk-Hai Pikemen  exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Uruk-Hai Pikemen  exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Uruk-Hai Pikemen  exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Uruk-Hai Crossbow  exp 2 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Uruk-Hai Crossbow  exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Snaga Skirmishers  exp 2 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Snaga Skirmishers  exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Uruk-Hai Archers  exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Uruk-Hai Archers  exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Wargs  exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Wargs  exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Wargs  exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
 end
terminate_monitor
end_monitor
;------------------------- MORDOR --------------------------
declare_counter mordor_weakened
;trigger mordor when Black Gate is lost
monitor_event FactionTurnStart FactionType england
 and IsFactionAIControlled
 and not I_SettlementOwner Udun = england
 
 set_counter mordor_weakened 1
 
 terminate_monitor
end_monitor
;trigger mordor when Minas Morgul is lost
monitor_event FactionTurnStart FactionType england
 and IsFactionAIControlled
 and not I_SettlementOwner Morgul-Vale = england
 
 set_counter mordor_weakened 1
 
 terminate_monitor
end_monitor
 
;trigger mordor when weakened
monitor_event FactionTurnStart FactionType england
 and IsFactionAIControlled
 and I_NumberOfSettlements england < 7
 
 set_counter mordor_weakened 1
 
 terminate_monitor
end_monitor
monitor_event FactionTurnStart FactionType england
 and IsFactionAIControlled
 and I_CompareCounter mordor_weakened = 1
   add_money england 10000
 spawn_army 
 faction england
 character random_name, named character, age 27, x 310, y 135, direction W
 traits LoyaltyStarter 1 , GoodCommander 2 , ReligionStarter 1
  unit Uruk Bodyguards  exp 2 armour 1 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Orc Band  exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Mordor Orcs  exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Mordor Orcs  exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Mordor Orcs  exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Mordor Orcs  exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit 2handed Orcs  exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit 2handed Orcs  exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Morannon Guard  exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Morannon Guard  exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Mordor Uruks  exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Mordor Uruks  exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Mordor Halberd  exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Mordor Halberd  exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Mordor Archers  exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Mordor Archers  exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Uruk Archers  exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Uruk Archers  exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Battle Trolls  exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Battle Trolls  exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
 end
terminate_monitor
end_monitor
;------------------------- SILVAN ELVES --------------------------
declare_counter silvans_weakened
;trigger Silvans when Celebrant is lost
monitor_event FactionTurnStart FactionType mongols
 and IsFactionAIControlled
 and not I_SettlementOwner Celebrant = mongols
 
 set_counter silvans_weakened 1
 
 terminate_monitor
end_monitor
;trigger mordor when Lothlorien is lost
monitor_event FactionTurnStart FactionType mongols
 and IsFactionAIControlled
 and not I_SettlementOwner Lothlorien = mongols
 
 set_counter silvans_weakened 1
 
 terminate_monitor
end_monitor
 
monitor_event FactionTurnStart FactionType mongols
 and IsFactionAIControlled
 and I_CompareCounter silvans_weakened = 1
   add_money mongols 10000
 spawn_army 
 faction mongols
 character random_name, named character, age 39, x 218, y 210, direction W
 traits LoyaltyStarter 1 , GoodCommander 2 , ReligionStarter 1
  unit Elf Bodyguard  exp 2 armour 1 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Silvan Spear  exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Silvan Spear  exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Silvan Spear  exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Silvan Sword  exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Silvan Sword  exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Silvan Sword  exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Silvan Heavy Spearmen  exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Silvan Heavy Spearmen  exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Silvan Heavy Swordsmen  exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Silvan Heavy Swordsmen  exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Silvan Horsearchers  exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Silvan Horsearchers  exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Elf Archer  exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Elf Archer  exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Elf Guard  exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Elf Guard  exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Silvan Archer  exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Silvan Archer  exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Silvan Archer  exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
 end
terminate_monitor
end_monitor
;------------------------- OOMM --------------------------
declare_counter oomm_weakened
;trigger Silvans when Mt-Gundabad is lost
monitor_event FactionTurnStart FactionType hre
 and IsFactionAIControlled
 and not I_SettlementOwner Mt-Gundabad = hre
 
 set_counter oomm_weakened 1
 
 terminate_monitor
end_monitor
;trigger mordor when Grey-Mountains is lost
monitor_event FactionTurnStart FactionType hre
 and IsFactionAIControlled
 and not I_SettlementOwner Grey-Mountains = hre
 
 set_counter oomm_weakened 1
 
 terminate_monitor
end_monitor
 
monitor_event FactionTurnStart FactionType hre
 and IsFactionAIControlled
 and I_CompareCounter oomm_weakened = 1
   add_money hre 10000
 spawn_army 
 faction hre
 character random_name, named character, age 34, x 187, y 287
 traits LoyaltyStarter 1 , GoodCommander 2 , ReligionStarter 1
  unit Moria Bodyguards  exp 2 armour 1 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Goblin Orcs  exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Goblin Orcs  exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Goblin Orcs  exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Goblin Orcs  exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Moria Orcs  exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Moria Orcs  exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Moria Halberd  exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Moria Halberd  exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Snaga Skirmishers  exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Snaga Skirmishers  exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Snaga Skirmishers  exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Goblin Wargs  exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Goblin Wargs  exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Goblin Archers  exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Goblin Archers  exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
 end
terminate_monitor
end_monitor

[Twist of Cain]

Additionally, there are a few more sections, which seem to do the following:

At turn 30, if Mordor is at war with a non-AI Gondor, it receives 6k gold and a 16 unit stack.

At turn 50, if Harad is at war with a non-AI Gondor, it receives 5k gold and a 19 unit stack.

At turn 70, Mordor's purse increases by 400 and if it controls Gorgoroth, it receives a general with 2 battle_troll units.

At turn 100, Harad's purse increases by 700, and it receives a general with a mumakil unit if it controls Harad. If it is at war with a non-AI Gondor, it further receives a full stack at this point and 10k gold.

The ents spawn if certain evil factions take Fangorn.

Again, here is the script in question.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

;########################## MONSTER SPAWN ###########################
monitor_event FactionTurnStart FactionType england
 and IsFactionAIControlled
 and I_SettlementOwner Gorgoroth = england
 and I_TurnNumber >= 70
   increment_kings_purse england 400
 spawn_army 
 faction england
 character random_name, named character, age 24, x 289, y 138
 traits LoyaltyStarter 1 , GoodCommander 2 , ReligionStarter 1
  unit Uruk Bodyguards  exp 2 armour 1 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Battle Trolls  exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Battle Trolls  exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
 end
terminate_monitor
end_monitor
monitor_event FactionTurnStart FactionType spain
 and IsFactionAIControlled
 and I_SettlementOwner Harad = spain
 and I_TurnNumber >= 100
   increment_kings_purse spain 700
 spawn_army 
 faction spain
 character random_name, named character, age 24, x 284, y 42
 traits LoyaltyStarter 1 , GoodCommander 2 , ReligionStarter 1
  unit Serpent Bodyguard  exp 2 armour 1 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Mumakil  exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
 end
terminate_monitor
end_monitor
;############################ ENT SPAWN ###############################
declare_counter ents
monitor_event FactionTurnStart FactionType france
 and not IsFactionAIControlled
 and I_SettlementOwner Fangorn = france
 set_counter ents 1
 terminate_monitor
end_monitor
monitor_event FactionTurnStart FactionType hre
 and not IsFactionAIControlled
 and I_SettlementOwner Fangorn = hre
 set_counter ents 1
 terminate_monitor
end_monitor
monitor_event FactionTurnStart FactionType england
 and not IsFactionAIControlled
 and I_SettlementOwner Fangorn = england
 set_counter ents 1
 terminate_monitor
end_monitor
monitor_event FactionTurnStart FactionType slave
 and I_CompareCounter ents = 1
 historic_event ent_march event/march_of_the_ents.bik
 spawn_army 
 faction slave, sub_faction mongols
 character Treebeard, named character, age 62, x 183, y 193, battle_model ents, portrait treebeard
 traits LoyaltyStarter 1 , Ents 1 , GoodCommander 2 , ReligionStarter 1
  unit Ents Elephants  exp 2 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
 end
 move_strat_camera 183, 193
 terminate_monitor
end_monitor
;########################### AI INVASIONS ##############################
;-------HARAD--------
monitor_event PreFactionTurnStart FactionType spain
 and IsFactionAIControlled
 and DiplomaticStanceFromFaction sicily = AtWar
 and I_LocalFaction sicily
 and I_TurnNumber >= 100
   add_money spain 10000
 spawn_army 
 faction spain
 character random_name, named character, age 42, x 253, y 53, direction N
 traits LoyaltyStarter 1 , GoodCommander 2 , ReligionStarter 1
  unit Serpent Bodyguard  exp 2 armour 1 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Serpent Guard exp 2 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Hasharii exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Desert Spearmen exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Desert Spearmen exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Southron Spearmen exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Southron Spearmen exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Southron Pikemen exp 2 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Southron Pikemen exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Southron Pikemen exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Southron Archers exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Southron Archers  exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Southron Lancers  exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Southron Lancers  exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Raiders Cavalry  exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Raiders Cavalry  exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Beastmaster  exp 2 armour 1 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Mumakil  exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
 end
terminate_monitor
end_monitor
;---------------
monitor_event PreFactionTurnStart FactionType spain
 and IsFactionAIControlled
 and DiplomaticStanceFromFaction sicily = AtWar
 and I_LocalFaction sicily
 and I_TurnNumber >= 50
   add_money spain 5000
 spawn_army 
 faction spain
 character random_name, named character, age 35, x 186, y 85, direction NW
 traits LoyaltyStarter 1 , GoodCommander 2 , ReligionStarter 1
  unit Serpent Bodyguard  exp 3 armour 1 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Southron Spearmen exp 2 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Southron Spearmen exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Southron Pikemen exp 2 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Southron Pikemen exp 3 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Corsairs exp 3 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Corsairs exp 2 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Corsairs exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Corsair Archers  exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Corsair Archers  exp 2 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Southron Lancers  exp 2 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Southron Lancers  exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Raiders Cavalry  exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Raiders Cavalry  exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
 end
terminate_monitor
end_monitor
;-------MORDOR--------
monitor_event PreFactionTurnStart FactionType england
 and IsFactionAIControlled
 and I_LocalFaction sicily
 and I_TurnNumber >= 30
   add_money england 6000
 spawn_army 
 faction england
 character random_name, named character, age 30, x 274, y 125, direction W
 traits LoyaltyStarter 1 , GoodCommander 2 , ReligionStarter 1
  unit Uruk Bodyguards  exp 2 armour 1 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Morannon Guard exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Morannon Guard exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Mordor Orcs exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Mordor Orcs exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Mordor Orcs exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Mordor Orcs exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Orc Band  exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Orc Band  exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit 2handed Orcs  exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit 2handed Orcs  exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Mordor Scouts  exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Mordor Scouts  exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Mordor Archers  exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
  unit Mordor Archers  exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
 end
terminate_monitor
end_monitor

[Lowes]

I don't know, for me, its usually winning a decisive battle. I almost lost my campaign because I lost 3 family members in a pitched battle, I'm down to my last 3 family members. But a few turns later I destroyed Mordor because I destroyed the Witch-king, his Heir and the third in line, which at that point was all that remained. All that remains is to mop up all the rebel villages.

[Jean=A=Luc]

The only thing that I've found that effectively hurts the AI is to pummel it again and again and again until you finally beat it into the ground.

[Russian Gondor]

Well, as you may notice unless you are completely blind the enemy does not need anything to recruit units. I have noticed they have not a single penny but they are spawning out stacks in 1-2 turns. 1) Impossible to recruit units without money 2) Impossible to recruit a stack in 2 turns 3) Impossible to recruit Olog-Hai in a city with no troll cages.

This proves that their is a script containing the files to spawn stacks of units for enemies for free.

[Twist of Cain]

Well, as you may notice unless you are completely blind the enemy does not need anything to recruit units. I have noticed they have not a single penny but they are spawning out stacks in 1-2 turns. 1) Impossible to recruit units without money

They probably never "have" money because they spend it on units and buildings as soon as they get it.

2) Impossible to recruit a stack in 2 turns

Garrison script makes fast accumulation of units possible, for instance, or the ones I showed above, which are limited.

3) Impossible to recruit Olog-Hai in a city with no troll cages.

Trolls can be spawned through the garrison script.

This proves that their is a file containing the scripts to spawn stacks of units for enemies for free.

Find it and show us if you think that's the case. The ones I've posted are the biggest spawn sources, as far as I can tell, and other than the garrison, they fire once or twice at most.

[Russian Gondor]

Twist of Cain I was not trying to prove that it was impossible for the AI to do it. I was proving that these are the 3 reasons that they could not do it unless it was scripted for them. Also, as you said they cannot even have money to spend on military and military buildings. That is utter BS ( no offence ) Unless their units have upkeep they would be at -50k gold by turn 50.

*EDIT*I always wanted to mention this question but is your Gollem signature supposed to have a whipped cream mustache?

[SigniferOne]

Twist, that changes things, but not by much. They're of some importance, they do make some impact, but how relevant are they in the context of dozens and dozens of stacks that these armies face? At best they're just a slight nudge upwards. I'm trying to draw attention to the fact that the 'dozens and dozens' of stacks that people experience have been generated through the normal AI proceedings and recruitment.

[Twist of Cain]

Twist, that changes things, but not by much. They're of some importance, they do make some impact, but how relevant are they in the context of dozens and dozens of stacks that these armies face? At best they're just a slight nudge upwards. I'm trying to draw attention to the fact that the 'dozens and dozens' of stacks that people experience have been generated through the normal AI proceedings and recruitment.

I don't disagree that these scripts are not the main culprit as far as AI unit spam goes. The money scripts are the cause, I expect. Those by themselves (not counting "normal" income) give the AI enough money from M-VH to buy a full army stack in 4-10 turns, depending on faction and difficulty. (Assuming stacks worth 10k.) That's not even counting the script that kicks in every time the AI hits -500 and gives them a bonus 10k. In fact, looking at this stuff, I wonder how the AI can ever appear to be out of money? Massive upkeep, I suppose? Anyway, if you destroy an AI stack every 4 turns with 0 men lost, that could just be a "draw." And, ironically, an AI that managed to not go in debt would not get the bonus 10k and thus could make less money than AIs which screw up their finances and hit the negatives often.

Is it possible the "dwarfsplosion" is because the dorfs rack up debts from upkeep and get 10k practically every turn?

[Russian Gondor]

I am in awe how they can be made through recruitment....

[trueblaze]

Where is the script for the 10K AI bonus for having -500 gold located? I'm thinking of maybe tweeking it a little to see what it does. What it looks like and about how far down the page would be useful as well. Thanks.

[Twist of Cain]

Where is the script for the 10K AI bonus for having -500 gold located? I'm thinking of maybe tweeking it a little to see what it does. What it looks like and about how far down the page would be useful as well. Thanks.

I'd be curious to hear what sort of results you get, though bear in mind the AI is dumb as bricks, and once it enters a debt spiral, I doubt would be smart enough to force itself out.

Go to default install location:

C:\Program Files\SEGA\Medieval II Total War\mods\Third_Age\data\world\maps\campaign\imperial_campaign

Edit the file: campaign_script.txt

Search for: MONEY DEPT SCRIPT

You will see the following, repeated once for every faction:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

;########################### MONEY DEPT SCRIPT ##############################
 monitor_event FactionTurnStart FactionType england
  and IsFactionAIControlled
  and Treasury < -500
 
   add_money england 10000
 
 end_monitor

If you wanted to play with the code, I suppose you could try making multiple triggers for each faction instead of just one per, and tweak the amount given to them based on how much they are in debt. That way, they'd still get bailed out, but would not be able to get as much gold out of getting into minor debt.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

 monitor_event FactionTurnStart FactionType england
  and IsFactionAIControlled
  and Treasury < 0
  and Treasury >= -1000
   add_money england 1500
 end_monitor
 
 monitor_event FactionTurnStart FactionType england
  and IsFactionAIControlled
  and Treasury < -1000
  and Treasury >= -2000
   add_money england 2500
 end_monitor
 
 monitor_event FactionTurnStart FactionType england
  and IsFactionAIControlled
  and Treasury < -2000
  and Treasury >= -3000
   add_money england 3500
 end_monitor
 
;(etc)

The example given would bail them out if their debt per turn doesn't get worse than -3000, but it will only leave them between 500 and 1500 gold. I'm sure there are more elegant ways to do this, maybe a scripting guru will chime in.

A loop would really be ideal: If amount is less than -1000, then add 1000 and check again, repeat until amount is positive. But I don't think Total War scripting is advanced enough for loops.

Btw, IIRC someone on the forums here had a program to make repetitions like this automatically for you, based on a list you'd give it, but I can't recall what it was named. It would probably make this sort of thing easier.

[trueblaze]

I'd be curious to hear what sort of results you get, though bear in mind the AI is dumb as bricks, and once it enters a debt spiral, I doubt would be smart enough to force itself out.

Go to default install location:

C:\Program Files\SEGA\Medieval II Total War\mods\Third_Age\data\world\maps\campaign\imperial_campaign

Edit the file: campaign_script.txt

Search for: MONEY DEPT SCRIPT

You will see the following, repeated once for every faction:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

;########################### MONEY DEPT SCRIPT ##############################
 monitor_event FactionTurnStart FactionType england
  and IsFactionAIControlled
  and Treasury < -500
 
   add_money england 10000
 
 end_monitor

If you wanted to play with the code, I suppose you could try making multiple triggers for each faction instead of just one per, and tweak the amount given to them based on how much they are in debt. That way, they'd still get bailed out, but would not be able to get as much gold out of getting into minor debt.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

 monitor_event FactionTurnStart FactionType england
  and IsFactionAIControlled
  and Treasury < 0
  and Treasury >= -1000
   add_money england 1500
 end_monitor
 
 monitor_event FactionTurnStart FactionType england
  and IsFactionAIControlled
  and Treasury < -1000
  and Treasury >= -2000
   add_money england 2500
 end_monitor
 
 monitor_event FactionTurnStart FactionType england
  and IsFactionAIControlled
  and Treasury < -2000
  and Treasury >= -3000
   add_money england 3500
 end_monitor
 
;(etc)

The example given would bail them out if their debt per turn doesn't get worse than -3000, but it will only leave them between 500 and 1500 gold. I'm sure there are more elegant ways to do this, maybe a scripting guru will chime in.

I actully have two ideas I thought of that might be kinda interesting to try but I'm not all that great a coder(I can only do the most basic changes right now) and wasn't quite sure how to implament them.

Option A: Every other turn Bonus


I was thinking of setting it so that instead of the AI getting 10,000 gold if their bank is at -500 every turn, set it so they get 20,000 if their bank is at -500 but have it set so it only checks the AI's balance every other turn. While at first this may seem to do the same thing it could potentially change things in 3 ways that I could think of (only two of which I can remember at this moment ):

1. Since any faction can only build so many units per turn, if the AI runs out of money on one of the odd turns they'll have to wait until the next turn to continue building units. Hence it COULD potentially slow down the AI's ability to spawn units without actully stopping them from doing so.

2. If a faction happens to loose enough units during a turn it may be possible that during the next even turn their treasury manages to stay just above the -500 mark. Hence they will not recieve the bonus until the next even turn. In a way this could on occation give the AI faction the apearance that they've taken enough damage that they need a few moments to take a step back to recupe, rather than the "we just lost five thousand men, oh well here's the next five thousand" that it seems to have right now.

As well maybe altering the income from 20,000 to 15,000 or changing the negative balance from -500 to -1000 might worth considering with this idea as well. Or possibly even make it check every third turn and give 30,000.


Option B: Demishing returns baised on unit upkeep

At the moment it seems the AI is being rewarded for over building huge hard to mantain armies, hence one of the reasons Dwarves are probably doing so well. This idea would be that while the AI still gets bonuses once their bank hits -500 however the amount they get will decrease depending on how much of it is already being spent on unit upkeep.

For example if unit upkeep is =<10,000 they would get 10,000 gold. If unit upkeep is >10,000 but =<15,000 they'll recieve 9,000, and so on and so forth. (I'm not certain what the typical AI unit upkeep is so these numbers would probably be different)

By doing this you would be able to allow the AI to build units quickly at first, but as their armys get larger they'll grow slower. Then should the AI take a large lose of units in a given turn their income would jump up again giving them the chance to build up once more.

This one could also help balance factions with high upkeep units vrs factions with low upkeep units. As a faction like the Dwarves would begin slowing down in their ability to pump out new units faster than a faction like OotMM who's units are cheaper to maintain. At least thoredically .

[trueblaze]

Option A: Every other turn Bonus


I was thinking of setting it so that instead of the AI getting 10,000 gold if their bank is at -500 every turn, set it so they get 20,000 if their bank is at -500 but have it set so it only checks the AI's balance every other turn. While at first this may seem to do the same thing it could potentially change things in 3 ways that I could think of (only two of which I can remember at this moment ):

1. Since any faction can only build so many units per turn, if the AI runs out of money on one of the odd turns they'll have to wait until the next turn to continue building units. Hence it COULD potentially slow down the AI's ability to spawn units without actully stopping them from doing so.

2. If a faction happens to loose enough units during a turn it may be possible that during the next even turn their treasury manages to stay just above the -500 mark. Hence they will not recieve the bonus until the next even turn. In a way this could on occation give the AI faction the apearance that they've taken enough damage that they need a few moments to take a step back to recupe, rather than the "we just lost five thousand men, oh well here's the next five thousand" that it seems to have right now.

As well maybe altering the income from 20,000 to 15,000 or changing the negative balance from -500 to -1000 might worth considering with this idea as well. Or possibly even make it check every third turn and give 30,000.

Sorry for the double post but I was hoping a modder was on and would see this so I could try it tonight before I went to bed.

It just occured to me that this could be done if the condition summer and winter were added to the script already in play. Does anyone know what the exact wording would have to be for this to work? As I said, I'm still not that good of a moder and I'd hate to mess up my game already in progress .

[Twist of Cain]

and I_CompareCounter quarter >= 3

Adding this should ensure that something fires only during the second two quarters of a year, 3 and 4.

[Baron Samedi]

I know this isn't really relevant to this thread and I appologise in advance :p
But would it be possible to reduce the scale of the amount of units both you and the enemy have?
For example if mordor got 4 stacks a turn wheras gondor can only field 1 could it be changed so that mordor only has 1 and gondor has a quarter?
Which would in theory keep the balance but get rid of the kindof crazy amount of troops "sheltered" factions such as the dwarves or eriador and make truly epic battles rarer because, even tho lots of people love them for this reason, I am getting tired of continually fighting stack after stack of both harad and mordor armies.
Or just a way to make the A.I. Split their forces creating minor skirmishes rather than the continual hordes of men/orcs? thing?

If you want to realize this, then you would need to do a lot of editing in the campaign script, and then I am not even talking about the possible effects on the overall campaign balance, because of this editing.