Feudalism IS possible in Medieval 2

[Hrobatos]

so i was thinking, wouldnt bodyguard of some general from europe be the best units available in land(usualy feudal knights), rather than some new units, well what i mean they shouldn be that much stronger, i know they are chosen among elite but my god seing my elite spearmen hiting them and hiting them, they are not immortal!!!they should be weaker as well as general, there is reason why most generals didnt fought in battles you know, THEY COULD GET KILLED but no in total war they cant

also i was thinking why not taking feudalism in medieval 2, yes it can be done i will explain how and why but first what is feudalism? A man (noble lord) has a feud/land, he "gives" to peasants to use for something back usualy food, or work, he gives small parts of his feud to other people to have, these people dont have taxes, have small land with peasants who live and work on it, but he has to fight as heavy cavalarymen or knight when his senior who gave him feud calles, highest senior was king. the rule was "lord of my lord is not my lord" king was everybodys lord

1. nobility are men who have land given them by king or some other way,
so you have

-King - senior , ruler, most powerful men in kingdom

-dukes - high nobility, they give part of their land to other smaller nobility, their vasals : knights

-knights: men who have enough money and land and peasants to live and in time of war to be in armor and on horse, they dont have to pay taxes but have to go to serve as heavy cavalary
in time of war

-in medieval times there was 3 parts of army

-royal - mercenaries - they worked for money and were loyal to king, can/should be trained in capital and royal cities, were profesional soldiers, they didnt had to be foreigners, but were paid and could buy better armor and weapon than militia

-noble- they didnt have to paid taxes bit they had to go to war as heavy cavalary, often richer noblemen would hire light cavalary mercenaries or even heavy cavalary, so they would have better chances to survive battle (so in 13 century if you had 500 knights you often had another 1000 or more of other types of cavalary for scouting and other duties hired by noble knights who could aford that( they did wanted to survive war) in medieval times chain armor was worth 40 cows, and battle horse capable to carry a man in heavy armor was even more expensive and they were train to bite and kick men in battle who were around them, smaller horses used by light cavalary were naturaly less expensive

-militia - peasants armed with spears and axes , sometimes shields and bows as well, no armor

-so i hope you now all know what was role of noblility and how medieval army looked like

2. so we have capital/royal city as dynasty that rules owns the city

-royal cities - under direct control from king, so this is kings land and men are kings men,
as i said before mercenaries should be trainable in capital and royal cities

-noble cities - ruled and owned by noble houses, less money as nobility takes their part
also i think that every noble city should create a noble unit/s that would be free as nobility was not paid, so if you lose this feudal army/noble units in battle it should take 10-15 years before cities could train new, meaning before their sons grow up to take sword, also i think you should be able to refill unit, and nobles were loyal to their houses rather than to king

-militia should be recrutaible everywhere

this would recreate feudalism in europe, and improve gameplay, i dont know if anyone sugested anything similar but i as owner of this idea I give rights to everyone to use it for their mods (and improve it even do i would like to get credits for idea)
my aiming for this idea is conquest mod( best mod i ever played and i played manny...)

so what do you think about my idea?

[The Holy Pilgrim]

I think that sounds like a great idea, but Feudalism began in the 10th centuryonly lasted until the early 15th century (1400's) when the Renaissance began. That means your idea could only be implemented into the 970-1400 campaigns.

[Hrobatos]

i know i like 1080 campaign most so i would like to feel like in medieval times
people dont be afraid what do you think about idea?Good?Bad? You would like to play that way or you wouldnt..
The reason why i made idea is that i am in 1080 campaign with Croatia in 1094 year and still cant train noble units, only nobility i have are bodyguards, and that is dumm, nobility existed and in year 970 as well as before that and this would accuratly made possible

[The Holy Pilgrim]

I for one like the idea.

[♔ Tsar ♔]

That a great idea !!!

[uanime5]

The bodyguards are the hardest unit to kill because they have better defence but less attack, as they are trained to protect their general. The general can also get traits that increase his hit points which also effect his bodyguard. In the later campaign the bodyguards are easier to kill as missile weapons become more powerful and heavy cavalry is more common.

Regarding Feudalism how about the following:

Noble cities: militia + noble unit (mailed / feudal knights in Europe, Boyers in Russia, etc; will regenerate slowly)

Royal cities: militia + castle units + mercenaries

Castles: lightly armoured units can be recruited without building any military buildings, armoured units require military buildings and blacksmiths.

I can't create unique units for every region because there is a unit limit. I also can't create noble and royal version of each unit for the same reason. I'll be easier if noble regions have some castle units and royal regions have more castle units.

[Hrobatos]

you didnt really understood what i mean

castles dont really fit in noble/royal city system as this "city" can be city as well as castle, noble/royal tells us is it under direct control from king or owned by some noble lord, not how is it builted, and how high walls does it has, i think castles should be considered as royal cities, I can explain why as well but that later annd if you relly wana know...

what i said that noble cities should be able to train small number( 1 or 2 units) of nobles like feudal knights, they would cost nothing, but if you lose them you will have to wait for some peiod of time before their sons grow up to take sword, so upkeep 0 for noblemen cas well as to recruit them, they are castle+mercenaries units

in royal cities units that are neither militia nor noble should be trainable, they would have normal upkeep, they work for money and are profesional soldiers and because of that they can buy themselves better armor and weapon than militia, and are better trained.

militia should be trainable everywhere.

and why are you talking about making new units? every state has some units that represent nbility( like royal mameluks, or in scotland noble archers...)

[uanime5]

The problem is that the cost of each unit is part of the unit. So if I wanted to make some Feudal Knights for a Noble city and made them cost nothing, then I wanted a Royal city or castle to be able to recruit these Feudal Knights I would have to make a new version of the Feudal Knights if I wanted them to have a recruitment cost and upkeep. To solve this I can do the following:

1) Only allow noble units to be recruited in Noble cities, not Royal cities or castles. The problem with this is that the heaviest cavalry will not be recruitable, which will cause a lot of problems in the early campaigns when there are only a few types of cavalry. Also as the campaign progresses and new cavalry becomes available the noble cavalry will be outclassed by the newer units.

2) Allow noble units to be recruitable in castles at no cost. This will make building heavy cavalry armies very cheap and be ahistorical.

3) Give noble units a recruitment cost and upkeep. This will allow them to be recruited in noble cities and castles without unbalancing them game. I can change the nobility available using events.

Unfortunately a zero cost / upkeep noble unit cannot be added to this mod because of the way M2TW works and the current tech tree. Also as this mod covers over 600 years the changes the nobility would experience would require several nobility units per faction to accurately reflect them.


I'm not sure if M2TW will let you wait for 80 turns (20 years at 4 turns per year) before you can recruit a unit. I'll have to see if anyone has tested it.

I can make militia trainable in castles but why would the player want to train militia when they can train professional soldiers?

[Hrobatos]

3) Give noble units a recruitment cost and upkeep. This will allow them to be recruited in noble cities and castles without unbalancing them game. I can change the nobility available using events.

then this seems the closest solution if you wanna do it, its not like you have to do it...

[uanime5]

Another possibility is to consider the generals and their bodyguards as the nobility. There's usually one per city and their children replace them.

[Hrobatos]

yes that true, i do have them and they are nobility, and you can get them anywhere without any special buildings

[ModderN00b]

Well... I can do basic scripting?

[alwt1991]

nice dicussion,an army should be led by a noble,with few knights,few elites/standard unit,few mercenary if needed,and then lots of militia and peasants

[Hrobatos]

delete