Religion Versus Atheism

[EireEmerald]

I am not an expert on this whole subject. I listen to atheists and i listen to religious people but i do not really " listen " to either.

I think religion has been hijacked politically, it has lost all sense of what it should be, it has been warped by man. I think this in an inevitable shame. I believe in god, i find it sad that people are turned away from " god " by man-made mistakes . I know a bishop in Ireland who described an incredible experience he had in a forest once where he " encountered god ". He described him as someone or something completely different from what the church teaches, something much more understanding, loving.

I listen to atheism as well and i admire a lot of atheists who tackle creationists and their retarded views ( no offence to anyone ) but I find some of them to be incredibly arrogant. Richard Dawkins is one prime example of this.

I want to know what the arguments are on each team. I know there is a thread on this forum about atheism being just as ilogical as religion if not more so. What are the arguments on both sides? And Where is humanity heading in this field? Will there be more and more atheists or agnostics? Or will the tables be turned? Will some religions change their corrupt ways? Will new ones form?

[Arch-hereticK]

Well he was aggressive.
I liked that video, an englishman scared of an Irishman is always good (even if the Irish man is an arrogant ass).

How can we assume there was a first cause?
I don't think it's logical, the fact is we don't know, probably the worst thing we could do is pretend that we know the answer, that's just retarded.

[EireEmerald]

[Pious Agnost]

Ah poor Richard.

Too polite, he could've torn him apart.

[Gaidin]

Hahaha Quinn doesn't even know what Evolution explains.

[Copperknickers II]

I want to know what the arguments are on each team. I know there is a thread on this forum about atheism being just as illogical as religion if not more so. What are the arguments on both sides? And Where is humanity heading in this field? Will there be more and more atheists or agnostics? Or will the tables be turned? Will some religions change their corrupt ways? Will new ones form?

Few religious people would actually disagree with Atheists' arguments. Those that do do not understand them, or do not want to understand them.

Religion is dying. Many people will believe in God, especially in the developing world, for at least another millenium, but it will stop being an institution among Christians in the developed world long before that. It will be a personal thing, and noone will really care about it any more.

[Arch-hereticK]

Few religious people would actually disagree with Atheists' arguments. Those that do do not understand them, or do not want to understand them.

Religion is dying. Many people will believe in God, especially in the developing world, for at least another millenium, but it will stop being an institution among Christians in the developed world long before that. It will be a personal thing, and noone will really care about it any more.

Organised religion is dying, religions is declining I think.

I don't think people will stop caring about their religion if it's "merely" personal, look at Maximillian, I mean he's hardly and extremist but he does care about his beliefs and his beliefs are very unorganised (for lack of a better word).

[Helm]

Where does matter come from? Matter is essentially a form of energy the two are interchangeable. Where did that energy come from? From the Big Bang. Where did the Big Bang come from? Like Dawkins said science is working on that one.

And we can have free will without God because genes and environment aside we still have a mind of our own. The mind being something else science is working on.

[Copperknickers II]

Where does matter come from? Matter is essentially a form of energy the two are interchangeable. Where did that energy come from? From the Big Bang. Where did the Big Bang come from? Like Dawkins said science is working on that one.

And we can have free will without God because genes and environment aside we still have a mind of our own. The mind being something else science is working on.

Actually, scientifically free will does not exist.

[Helm]

Actually, scientifically free will does not exist.

Science doesn't really fully cover the workings of the human mind, psychology just scratches the surface of it.

[Denny Crane!]

Actually, scientifically free will does not exist.

Interesting just walk me through the experiments that have verified this one will you. I'd like to see the studies.

[Copperknickers II]

Interesting just walk me through the experiments that have verified this one will you. I'd like to see the studies.

Me too.

[Denny Crane!]

Me too.

Free will is a difficult concept to define, never mind testing the damn concept.

[KingOfTheIsles]

Once again, I feel like I'm hearing a different Dawkins to any Theists. In that video, he was respectful and polite, refusing to be drawn by the presenter into calling Theists "stupid" and clarifying his position on "delusion", ie not applying to those who envisage a God based on logical reasoning (cosmological, teleological etc). As for the other guy, he is just a hypocrite. He calls Dawkins out on "creating strawmen" over the evolution debate, despite the fact that his interpretation of Dawkin's position was itself erroneous and arguably a strawman. Dawkins didn't say "all Christians are Creationists", which is what Quinn suggests.

On top of this, he then sets up a ridiculous strawman himself by suggesting that Atheists deny the concept of free will, and believe that we are all "slaves to our genes". I don't believe this, nor have I ever heard an Atheist express this opinion. As has already been mentioned, it's impossible to make a real, objective judgement on free will, as it's difficult to define, and practically impossible to experiment on.

Quite how the video maker came to the conclusion that Quinn "whipped his sorry ass" is a complete mystery to me. dawkins came off as polite and respectful, whilst the other was a little too abrasive for my liking and immediately began throwing around accusation that he quite simply couldn't back up.

[Tacitursa]

I love the "You dont know where matter came from" "So it must of been god" arguement.

[Tankbuster]

It's a bit strange to ask for the arguments of 'both sides'. The fact of the matter is that atheism is simply a response to theism. There's only one side that tries to convince you of anything, and that's religion.

Theists positively believe in a God and I want to know why. They present various sorts of arguments and I am an atheist because I have examined those arguments and have found them either faulty, debunked, or profoundly unconvincing.
Thus, I cannot accept the proposition that there is a God. I am an atheist.

Atheists don't say there is no God (the vast majority of us don't, anyway) so we don't actually have any 'arguments to be used against every kind of God'. The arguments I use to shoot down theist's conceptions of God that they show me are entirely dependent on what the theist believes about God.

So the question is not what the atheists' arguments are. The question is "What do you believe and why?". Then I can say why I find it unconvincing; not the other way around.

By the way, Richard Dawkins, while a fantastic educator on science and a great 'populariser' of biology (and occasionally philosophy), is not such a good debater and I don't consider him a very good frontman for atheists in that respect (although why you find him arrogant is beyond me: the guy is ruthlessly polite and gentle). For better debaters you might want to check out Christopher Hitchens, Sam Harris or others.

Actually, scientifically free will does not exist.

That's false.

[MaximiIian]

Richard Dawkins is one prime example of this.

Ehh. Not really. The guy's actually pretty cool and respectful. He just is very blunt and doesn't take crap (i.e., religion trying to out-science science). Now, Hitchens. He's a dick, and revels in it. But that kind of atheist is, thankfully, a vocal minority. Most atheists are nice, upstanding people, and some of the most level-headed folks you can find.

PS) btw, atheism doesn't necessarily preclude or is opposed to religion. It is merely a theological position of nonbelief in deity. There are religions that have no theological stance and some sects reject theism; this doesn't make them any less of a religion. Ultimately, religion is merely the practical application of philosophy.

look at Maximillian, I mean he's hardly an extremist but he does care about his beliefs and his beliefs are very unorganised (for lack of a better word).

Wicca is a bit of a grey area, in regards to the organised/personal religion dynamic. As a whole, it isn't an organised religion; but it is composed of various organised sects (small ones) that form broader Traditions, who contribute towards a collective idea of what Wicca is. Most of what makes up Wiccan dogma and orthopraxy is based in consensus and tradition, rather than any kind of large-scale organised decision-making.

[Arch-hereticK]

Wicca is a bit of a grey area, in regards to the organised/personal religion dynamic. As a whole, it isn't an organised religion; but it is composed of various organised sects (small ones) that form broader Traditions, who contribute towards a collective idea of what Wicca is. Most of what makes up Wiccan dogma and orthopraxy is based in consensus and tradition, rather than any kind of large-scale organised decision-making.

That's the way I see religion going in the future.

[Bwaho]

Eire just how in hell do you come to the conclusion that David Quinn "whips Dawkins sorry ass" ??? did you even watch the video you posted?

"You can't explain where matter comes from, therefore God exists" that's the most retarded argument I've ever heard.

[EireEmerald]

Eire just how in hell do you come to the conclusion that David Quinn "whips Dawkins sorry ass" ??? did you even watch the video you posted?

"You can't explain where matter comes from, therefore God exists" that's the most retarded argument I've ever heard.

I didn't make the video chum, i put it there for the thread.