Comparing Empire to Medieval 2

[Tim1988]

Hi all

I've been playing Empire now for half a year or so and I'm loving it. However, I have read on several threads that many people consider Medieval 2 a better game, and so, when I saw it for only £2.50 in the steam sale, I decided to get it and give it a go (I already own all other TW games since the first medieval). Here are my thoughts comparing the two games:

Graphics - The graphics in Empire are a massive step up from M2. Yes the units are a bit cloned, but I can forgive that when I see the rest of the graphics. I also think that clones in this time period are far less of an issue than in say medieval times, when men bought their own clothes/weapons/armour.

The campaign map - Again, I think that Empire does this better. I know raids can be annoying, but I like the way that you can now conduct guerrilla campaigns. As for the campaign AI, I don't think that its any better or worse than in M2, but you don't have the annoyance of the Pope telling you what to do and not to do. I love the research as well, although maybe it would be better to have different tech trees for different factions.

Battles - I've read a lot about people experiencing the mellee bug in Empire. I'm lucky enough not to have experienced this at all - in my game they always form nice lines and engage me in a shootout, and then sometimes charge. Its not perfect though, with the troops often milling around and frequently reforming as they close. However, I still feel that its a step up from M2 BAI, which seems to me to be very passive, just sitting around and not really responding to my actions. There is however, a far greater variety of units in M2.

Naval Battles - These are new to Empire and I love them, although I still think it was better before chainshot became so powerfull.

Polishing - This is where M2 is far better than Empire. There is a family tree, clips for marriages and other events, pre battle speeches from the generals, etc. None of these are in Empire, which I can't understand, cos I cant see them taking that long to implement.


So, in conclusion, I feel its 2 steps forward, then 1 step back with Empire. It is a far superior game in most aspects, but with a small amount of extra work could have gone from a very good game to a great one.

I'd love to hear your comments, but no ranting please,

Tim

[Khassaki]

Hi all
I'd love to hear your comments, but no ranting please,
Tim

My M2:TW is permanently retired. The campaign system in Empire has far more depth, religion is better implemented and trade is a science.

Getting rid of random bandits for rebels and making pirates a faction are both well executed. Raiding is cool and much better than just having devastation.

Diplomacy is much better, as are the multi-role rakes/thugees. Technology has taken over from the mostly pointless family tree.

My complaints are than fortresses look silly and are worthless unless you have a full garrison for it, as it is simeply too easy to get over the walls. The larger classes of ships are far too cheap, price, build time and the cost of maintaining them them should double with each "rate" larger than 6th. All dragoons should be able to fire mounted, just add skirmishing to light dragoons.

[Hesus de bodemloze]

Moving this to the General TW discussion forum, as this is a discussion about comparing two TW games.

If you have any questions feel free to contact me.

Hesus.

[Soul Firez]

As a player of both i can say yes graphics for ETW do far and away beat M2tw but the a fact that seems to be missing here is ETW is very restrictive in modding terms (especially the AI) many mods for M2TW will provide far better AI than ETW ( way better huge huge leaps its childs play to win against Ai in ETW)

Naval battles oh how i wish i could take them across to med2 for yes they are amazing (still a little glitchy but definatelty a huge plus) but diplomacy is better my question do you know what diplomacy is ??More options does not mean better if it is flawed and does not work in a sensible fashion allowing logical progression. There are many features that would be brilliant to be added to med2 (or med styled game or rome styled , hoping for rome2 a far more interesting period of warfare and culture than ETW, but that is just personal prefrence there .

Is it the most played of the TW series currently yes indeed (it is the newest and so many people are easily swayed by eye candy) but as it has had to have so many patches already just to get it almost playable (and stil;l for many people it is horrible glitched) and strangel6y there are so many players who have already abandoned it to come back to med2 or even rome i ask when it is 6+ years old like rome (aprox) will people still be playing it ?? I am not sure they will as modding is what has added much life to the TW series (in terms of extended playability ) and ETW being the least modable(despight them claiming it would be the most modable of the series.

I still enjoy the game and it does have many great features a bold step forward(attempt to move forward) but a near miss , as a player of TW games since the days of shogun it is to my mind (just opinion ) the most hyped of the series and well the worst executed and well a little bit of a money grab to boot charging people for unit packs units that should have been in the game to start with (so your paying for there lack of work or greater greed) a good modder would pump out better units in less time and do it for free (certainly in the M2TW field they would ).

I can only hope when they do and most likely in the next foray do a rome 2 (i believe RomeTW was there most financially succesfull venture) they take more time and add more to the depth of the game and the options with how it can be played rather than try to atract younger players with exciting looking graphics and a challenge level a 5 year old could beat 1 handed.

[SigniferOne]

Is it the most played of the TW series currently yes indeed (it is the newest and so many people are easily swayed by eye candy)

Surely you jest -- how many people are in the Med2 forums, compared to how many in ETW?

It isn't even close.

[Killerbee]

Surely you jest -- how many people are in the Med2 forums, compared to how many in ETW?

It isn't even close.

There's a big difference between a fan community, and a mass of people

[Praefectus praetorio]

Empire's campaign map is a lot better than in M2TW. But ETW land battles suck as the AI is totally crap. Usually they first sent 1 unit of horse against my cannons and line infantry only to be slaughtered. Then their line infantry got mess up and are easily defeated. But sea battles are very good and I enjoy them much.

[Principe Alessandro]

Maybe Empire is a great game for the future possibilities regarding the modding but until now I think that Rome or Med2 modded are far way better in quality.

I leaved in the shelf Empire until some total conversion mod will come out for this game with new models, new gameplay etc etc 'cause a game old 7 years like Rome Total War modded with Europa Barbarorum is still better.


I'm also enjoying Lotr-TW for Rome; Third Age and Stainless Steel+RR/RC compilation for Medieval 2 waiting for the best mod ever of the TW series Dominion of The Sword to be released.

[Emperor Charlemagne XII]

m2tw all the wya!!!!

[Final Frontier]

Graphics - The graphics in Empire are a massive step up from M2. Yes the units are a bit cloned, but I can forgive that when I see the rest of the graphics. I also think that clones in this time period are far less of an issue than in say medieval times, when men bought their own clothes/weapons/armour.

I may have to do a double take on both games again, but how do the sprites compare? I'm not sure if either or is better, but those are a part of the graphics, regardless. Other than that, yes, generally the graphics are better overall with ETW, which would be expected, considering that the game was developed after M2TW.

The campaign map - Again, I think that Empire does this better. I know raids can be annoying, but I like the way that you can now conduct guerrilla campaigns. As for the campaign AI, I don't think that its any better or worse than in M2, but you don't have the annoyance of the Pope telling you what to do and not to do. I love the research as well, although maybe it would be better to have different tech trees for different factions.

That's taking into consideration the Pope's influence in each time period. Religion played a much more pivotal role during the Middle Ages, so naturally the Pope would need to be an important aspect of M2TW. The satisfaction the player gets is subjective to their feeling about "getting immersed" into the time period; namely, if you're just playing to do your own thing without wanting to worry about the other factions one bit, yes, he would be a rather annoying addendum. It's like the SQPR from Rome, just not purple. (Well, not immune from your own attacks on it, and it's more influential in the overall spectrum, too )

Battles - I've read a lot about people experiencing the mellee bug in Empire. I'm lucky enough not to have experienced this at all - in my game they always form nice lines and engage me in a shootout, and then sometimes charge. Its not perfect though, with the troops often milling around and frequently reforming as they close. However, I still feel that its a step up from M2 BAI, which seems to me to be very passive, just sitting around and not really responding to my actions. There is however, a far greater variety of units in M2.

The key difference in both games would be the shift of focus from the primary use of melee to the primary use of rifles. That being said, I'd say that the AI has the capabilities to play out each of the scenarios, but the effectiveness and limitations are a bit more noticeable with ranged weaponry. In M2TW, the AI only has to worry about sending the infantry + cavalry + missiles forward, whereas in ETW the AI has to juggle between using ranged + charging with ranged + cavalry movements + any regular melee infantry + coordinate its attacks on certain units, like cannons. It just seems more likely for the AI not to take advantage of the distinct uses for ranged, but I don't think it should be too expected for the AI to perform superbly- at least it understands how to shoot sometimes. The problem is that there are a lot of flaws in the decisions it tends to make because of these factors, so that's also to take into account.

Naval Battles - These are new to Empire and I love them, although I still think it was better before chainshot became so powerfull.

Yeah, naval battles are pretty fun, although I don't notice ship-to-ship docking occur that frequently, maybe I'm just [un]lucky.

Polishing - This is where M2 is far better than Empire. There is a family tree, clips for marriages and other events, pre battle speeches from the generals, etc. None of these are in Empire, which I can't understand, cos I cant see them taking that long to implement.

Yes, the ability to look at a family tree and designate heirs was a very nice part of the game. In Empire, even just having the ability to look at the family tree would've been sufficient, but they did not seem to deem it necessary, for whatever reason. The lack of speeches is a disappointment, too, but I'd hate to imagine the amount of work going into making them work as 'generic' formats.