IWTE - World editing - (General Discussion)

[wilddog]

It seems IWTE is still bugged. You have my patch installed, try loading THE ARGONATH unique settlement in IWTE, it gives the index error thing.

Or you are still trying to correct corrupted settlements like the last error you posted? At the moment I'm modding something else then plan to address the problem Jox25 brought up on the deployment blocks.
The last problem took a little while for me to find and explain to Mak though it could be seen in the various text files and on the block sets that had the issue.

[leo.civil.uefs]

Or you are still trying to correct corrupted settlements like the last error you posted? At the moment I'm modding something else then plan to address the problem Jox25 brought up on the deployment blocks.
The last problem took a little while for me to find and explain to Mak though it could be seen in the various text files and on the block sets that had the issue.

This time Im not trying to edit the settlment, just trying to load it in IWTE and it bugs. Mak has the files, she can easly test it.

[wilddog]

This time Im not trying to edit the settlement, just trying to load it in IWTE and it bugs. Mak has the files, she can easly test it.

Sorry do you not understand the definition of something being corrupted? Its not a technical term. That's what it means the file is corrupted and has things wrong with it so is unlikely to work. The correction to get this sorted wasn't until after middle of last year when it was reported as a bug! Even the correction yesterday was only to try and help you to sort out the specific type of corruption rather than asking Mak to always fix it for you. Sure Mak can say yes the file is corrupt so current version of IWTE won't handle it.... then its down to her is she wants to manually edit on your behalf each time. However the in ability for IWTE to handle corrupt files doesn't mean IWTE in its current form is corrupt. I'm not being technical here I'm just trying to get over someone saying because they want to use a file that was previously corrupted (using IWTE) and it won't work its the current IWTE that's at fault rather than simply understanding that the file you are using was corrupted in the first place and then the cause of the corruption was fixed.

I ended up doing a bunch of changes in November to handle the 'corrupt' 3dsmax created files from DBM.

[leo.civil.uefs]

Sorry do you not understand the definition of something being corrupted? Its not a technical term. That's what it means the file is corrupted and has things wrong with it so is unlikely to work. The correction to get this sorted wasn't until after middle of last year when it was reported as a bug! Even the correction yesterday was only to try and help you to sort out the specific type of corruption rather than asking Mak to always fix it for you. Sure Mak can say yes the file is corrupt so current version of IWTE won't handle it.... then its down to her is she wants to manually edit on your behalf each time. However the in ability for IWTE to handle corrupt files doesn't mean IWTE in its current form is corrupt. I'm not being technical here I'm just trying to get over someone saying because they want to use a file that was previously corrupted (using IWTE) and it won't work its the current IWTE that's at fault rather than simply understanding that the file you are using was corrupted in the first place and then the cause of the corruption was fixed.

I ended up doing a bunch of changes in November to handle the 'corrupt' 3dsmax created files from DBM.

ok sorry for this. Thats because I was used by the last months to find various bugs in a row and it always worked like sending the files to mak so you could identify the bug, and they were there in fact.

Anyway it seems different now as I simply cannot load argonath in any version of IWTE, I have all the versions since IWTE_v13_11_C.

The settlement itself seems to be working well in the game.

The point about mak trying is not about doing things for me but using the info to track the bugs in IWTE.

Dont fool yourself about my activity with IWTE, everytime I find a problem I try bypassing/fixing it in a million different ways here (belive me I dont like to wait answers from the forums lol) and only send it for you guys in last instace (throug I admit some times I just did some stupid obvious errors), you know Im the one who by far has more experience with IWTE usage.

Anyway if you can make newer versions of IWTE to automatically fix such corruptions, that would be great, the idea of my settlements beeing corrupt and lost gives me chills.

By the way, it seems like there is a... bug... ... with deployment zones. When I click a node to move it, it actually duplicates this node and moves it. This was just after I got strange problems with deleting some vanilla deployment zone nodes to create a new zone and at all I ended up with 2 deployment zones in the settlement, the original and the edited one. Its strange, it seems that the DELETE NODE function is in no way working in the last version of IWTE, I just tested it with IWTE_v13_11_C on the same settlement and seems working well.

Another thing that relly seems to be a bug, sometimes IWTE just delete one of my techtrees so it wont appear in game.

Some interesting info, I stole a building from Dain's Halls (a settlement in wich there is the light effect thing, with reseted complex effects) and used it in a new settlement, something weird happened, the texture on it, got a pink tone. I exported the ms3d file to .obj and imported again and then used in the settlement and then got no more pink problem. I've being dealing with some weird things like that and some times I dont even report it here, dont know if I should at all. Could be a bug, or not. But Im generally too hasty to wait answers.

PS: Its not always about beeing technical, remember that for most users in the forums english is not the native leangue, so beeing more direct would be appreciated...
"IWTE is ok, its your settlement files wich are corrupt)" or something like that, Im used to american english wich is more simple and direct. sorry.

[Mr.Jox]

Confirm that. When im trying to load some settlements im getting IndexError. A little explane: I choose my Annuminas current version, open it well(choose what file to replace). Then i without closing IWTE choose my backup Annuminas. Im getting IndexError. If i close IWTE and load backup Annuminas first i dont get any IndexErrors. If i load NE castle and large_castle(med2 vanilla) im getting IndexError when deleting sctructures.
Also this deployment block not so dangerous: I just added it as it is(with black 'crashed' view). It works. Dont sure if perfect but it works.

[makanyane]

Confirm that. When im trying to load some settlements im getting IndexError. A little explane: I choose my Annuminas current version, open it well(choose what file to replace). Then i without closing IWTE choose my backup Annuminas. Im getting IndexError. If i close IWTE and load backup Annuminas first i dont get any IndexErrors.

not sure on that one at the moment - latest version seems OK generally about reading 2nd set of files without closing first. Though if you've done anything that generates a 'Traceback' 'out of index' type message you should close and re-start.

If i load NE castle and large_castle(med2 vanilla) im getting IndexError when deleting sctructures.
Also this deployment block not so dangerous: I just added it as it is(with black 'crashed' view). It works. Dont sure if perfect but it works.

there's some nasties in vanilla files that are hard to handle where objects are shared across structures, in NE castle it'll be bits that look like;

where an object has one group in one structure and the damaged version in another - trying to delete one of those structures seems to be generating the out-of index problem - deleting the whole complex works, would that be feasible for what you're trying to do?

The other issue I remember is that some of the 3 level arrow towers are split over different structures, for those I think you just need to change them back to default before trying to delete the structure.

[Mr.Jox]

Hello. Will it affect if my terrain height is -32.******** and not 0? And if i'll cahnge it to 0 should i remake all colissions and other stuff?

[makanyane]

Hello. Will it affect if my terrain height is -32.******** and not 0? And if i'll cahnge it to 0 should i remake all colissions and other stuff?

the -32 is relative to where on the battlemap the game is trying to center the settlement - so if it's on a hill, it'll still be on a hill, just a bit lower... if it's on a flat beach area, then -32 might get a bit wet!

if you want to change it there's a 'vector change' button on the specials tab, do +35 on the 'Y' to both the 3 binaries and the .worldterrain and everything should move together. If you try and change it manually - yup you'd have to change all the structures and collisions.

Some interesting info, I stole a building from Dain's Halls (a settlement in wich there is the light effect thing, with reseted complex effects) and used it in a new settlement, something weird happened, the texture on it, got a pink tone. I exported the ms3d file to .obj and imported again and then used in the settlement and then got no more pink problem. I've being dealing with some weird things like that and some times I dont even report it here, dont know if I should at all. Could be a bug, or not. But Im generally too hasty to wait answers.

That one's easy to explain. Latest versions with the 'reset complex effects' lighting, store that lighting info in the ms3d file so you don't have to do the reset it each time you replace a structure for a minor change.

If you add one of those ms3d's to another settlement which has different lighting effects it'll be referencing, either wrong, or non-existent effects (like the disco lighting thing from earlier). You'd either need to run the 'reset complex effects' on the new settlement to get rid of that, or use an older version of IWTE to write the ms3d for the thing you're trying to borrow, or your in/out of .obj thing. There isn't a way of accessing the info directly in milkshape (it's not the bones bit, that's shading only, which we haven't really explained yet...)

[wilddog]

PS: Its not always about beeing technical, remember that for most users in the forums english is not the native leangue, so beeing more direct would be appreciated...
"IWTE is ok, its your settlement files wich are corrupt)" or something like that, Im used to american english wich is more simple and direct. sorry.

I tried that in the thread on the complex lighting. It took 4 posts and 4 replies before you understood what "it is in the next version not the current version" meant! However point taken and I'll try and reduce things down to the concise comments in post #2202
PS with all your experience why did you think inserting lighting from one model would work without hitting the reset complex lighting? As Jox25 asked thats the reason why there are warning messages saying you may need to reset the lighting.

[makanyane]

Argonath

Am very surprised that one didn't crash the game. Problem seems to be that it's got lots of door entries that aren't actually attached to anything at all (looks like a hang-over from KK's starter kit) the original files were from Dec 2012 so not going to get too involved in working out how that happened!

fixed it by loading in 13_06 IWTE version which seemed more tolerant of wrong door stuff and then triggering it to delete the spare stuff by adding a link/ladder then 'deleting all link ladders'


will pass WD the original files to see if that sort of thing can get auto-fixed

[wilddog]

By the way, it seems like there is a... bug... ... with deployment zones. When I click a node to move it, it actually duplicates this node and moves it. This was just after I got strange problems with deleting some vanilla deployment zone nodes to create a new zone and at all I ended up with 2 deployment zones in the settlement, the original and the edited one. Its strange, it seems that the DELETE NODE function is in no way working in the last version of IWTE, I just tested it with IWTE_v13_11_C on the same settlement and seems working well.

With the info supplied we can't duplicate this 'bug' in any way. You need to be precise about what you did and supply the settlement info. I can't even figure out how you could tell you had ended up with two deployment zones but guessing you started with a corrupt file or maybe started a second process off which was using the timer for something else then went back to amending the deployment bits. Anyway can't tell from the info supplied.

Note as per the release notes 14_01_D updates corrected the bugged process in earlier versions. 13_11_C was corrupt and created corrupted deployment zones if you deleted multiple nodes at the same time. 14_01_D did not fix any corruption that had previously occurred.

[leo.civil.uefs]

PS with all your experience why did you think inserting lighting from one model would work without hitting the reset complex lighting? As Jox25 asked thats the reason why there are warning messages saying you may need to reset the lighting.

If you meant "taking a model from other settlement that already has lighting effects set and reseted complex lighting and then inserting it in a new settlement", as I said on the post, well I knew the reset complex lighting funtion was necessary to "put light" in things, not to "remove" it. Anyway I understand now.

May I ask for sorry as Im too tired of all this stuff and as you know, looking for my retirement (and then playing my stuff! damn!) so my patience is over, of course I know that none of you has to do with this.

Argonath

Am very surprised that one didn't crash the game. Problem seems to be that it's got lots of door entries that aren't actually attached to anything at all (looks like a hang-over from KK's starter kit) the original files were from Dec 2012 so not going to get too involved in working out how that happened!

fixed it by loading in 13_06 IWTE version which seemed more tolerant of wrong door stuff and then triggering it to delete the spare stuff by adding a link/ladder then 'deleting all link ladders'


will pass WD the original files to see if that sort of thing can get auto-fixed

Ok mak a big thanks. for this. I can acess the files now.
I belive I did the right thing asking you to check it as it was a technical issue I could not resolve by myself, and then adding the ability to IWTE to fix such things automatically is such a public interest matter.

With the info supplied we can't duplicate this 'bug' in any way. You need to be precise about what you did and supply the settlement info. I can't even figure out how you could tell you had ended up with two deployment zones but guessing you started with a corrupt file or maybe started a second process off which was using the timer for something else then went back to amending the deployment bits. Anyway can't tell from the info supplied.

Note as per the release notes 14_01_D updates corrected the bugged process in earlier versions. 13_11_C was corrupt and created corrupted deployment zones if you deleted multiple nodes at the same time. 14_01_D did not fix any corruption that had previously occurred.

hum... cant say exactly what happened, I have the file here, the bugged one, through I dont remember how I came to this bug.
Anyway I cannot recreate the bug again in a vanilla settlement (the same I used to build my settlement from), it seems that at some point I did something that caused this (like acidentally using the previous bugged version of IWTE).
Nevermind then.


As mak previously told me I might get some "index" errors if I try to add/replace structures wich objects in ms3d has the same names from ones already in the settlements. Just got it by writting a structure and then trying to replace it again above the same in the settlement. Dont know if possible or the amount of work involved in this but would be doable to make IWTE automatically see the issue and then change the names of the objects? Or is this a nosense suggestion? That would avoid lots of future users coming here to ask about this, as it is such a tricky error that it is hard to someone perceive the cause.

PS: mak check my preview of gundabad on my thread, regarding to the techtree thing, the in between mountain where the statues are is the settlement terrain edited, while the mountains aside are techtrees pointing to another settlement, thats why I needed 179x179 size of the terrain for it. Nad as you can see taking a vanilla techtree terrain and then resizing it was the only way I could do to avoid the large area of overlap that a vanilla normal settlement has, otherwise as I said on the previous post, the overlapping areas of both techtrees at each side would totally cover the terrain of the settlement itself, wich is the middle mountain with the statues.
Thanks for the suggestion!

[makanyane]

As mak previously told me I might get some "index" errors if I try to add/replace structures wich objects in ms3d has the same names from ones already in the settlements. Just got it by writting a structure and then trying to replace it again above the same in the settlement. Dont know if possible or the amount of work involved in this but would be doable to make IWTE automatically see the issue and then change the names of the objects? Or is this a nosense suggestion? That would avoid lots of future users coming here to ask about this, as it is such a tricky error that it is hard to someone perceive the cause.

there's only two naming conventions, one is the Eo... (Existing object) thing which means it's the same object that was written out, and is just being replaced without changing it's attributes (walls/collisions/effects, etc) if you keep the naming but change the number of groups then the tool will crash as you're telling it 2 contradictory things (keep old values v. change number of groups) it's not psychic and will give up at that stage. That's not fixable and can't be as it'll never know what you intended and won't start re-writing collisions for fewer groups etc.

The other convention is just that the first number for new stuff shows which group it is and the second, with something between the two, is the group
so Dup1-g1 and Dup1-g2, should get you a two group object, the only confusion occasionally is that it only looks at numbers so Dup1, and Regroup1 will get read as trying to be in same object and may get combined in same object although that wasn't what you intended, you need to do a rough check/rename of the new groups before loading them.

PS: mak check my preview of gundabad on my thread, regarding to the techtree thing, the in between mountain where the statues are is the settlement terrain edited, while the mountains aside are techtrees pointing to another settlement, thats why I needed 179x179 size of the terrain for it. Nad as you can see taking a vanilla techtree terrain and then resizing it was the only way I could do to avoid the large area of overlap that a vanilla normal settlement has, otherwise as I said on the previous post, the overlapping areas of both techtrees at each side would totally cover the terrain of the settlement itself, wich is the middle mountain with the statues.
Thanks for the suggestion!

erm, thought we'd sorted that one, could you send the actual files so I can try?

[Mr.Jox]

btw if you're going to look for gates/breaches functions, make a look when deleting a collision the breach does not deleting. So when im creating new collision im getting new breach so this way im getting 2 breaches on 1 wall, for example.
P.S. The walls that have collision inverted bug(im posted here in 1-2 days before), when im deleting collision walls which have collision inverted and assigning it again each time breaches are creating again and again. I i delete collision in period from 360* to 90* IWTE doesnt create any new breaches for walls.

[wilddog]

btw if you're going to look for gates/breaches functions, make a look when deleting a collision the breach does not deleting. So when im creating new collision im getting new breach so this way im getting 2 breaches on 1 wall, for example.
P.S. The walls that have collision inverted bug(im posted here in 1-2 days before), when im deleting collision walls which have collision inverted and assigning it again each time breaches are creating again and again. I i delete collision in period from 360* to 90* IWTE doesnt create any new breaches for walls.

Thanks, Jox25. I'll look at that next week. Currently modding something else as a priority (not MTW2 related). Hopefully get a fix out by end of the week.

[wilddog]

there are warning messages saying you may need to reset the lighting.

The update carried over complex lighting in the milkshape file and the previous settings assumed a lighting (that's the issue the johnwhile's tool has but doesn't realise as he copied my defaults). If you didn't understand that to use something meant to carry something over and therefore insert something its not exactly my fault (mak was the one that wanted that feature). Its also not any form of technical speak. As you keep repeating in your own words you have the most experience using IWTE through its different versions but using does not necessarily mean competence and understanding (if you interview people you will need to understand the difference).

I'm equally fed up with this. When I was finally able to look at the tool rather than rely on feedback I found quite a few simple issue quite quickly. Unfortunately the upshot of not giving the examples is several files may well be corrupted in some form. Each time I ask I get the 'not quite sure what I did or the wrong files were posted etc' . I know that not technical its simply an an ability to give concise details of an error.

But no worries. I'm sure you will get the hang of it in the end.

PS thanks for concise post.

[leo.civil.uefs]

That's not fixable and can't be as it'll never know what you intended and won't start re-writing collisions for fewer groups etc.

... of course.

As you keep repeating in your own words you have the most experience using IWTE through its different versions but using does not necessarily mean competence and understanding

For God's sake thats what I always meant. Im the guy who made Erebor, not the guy who made the Tool with wich Erebor was created.

My experience is with IWTE usage, not its programming.
When I told about all my "experience" with IWTE I was trying to justify sending the files to mak, saying Ive done everything possible to fix it by myself, as it got clear that all that "send it to mak" thing caused some disconfort here.
My father always said me I should be an architect and not a engineer, judging by what I have done in places like erebor and my difficulty to understand all the technical stuff with IWTE, I think he was right.

Anyway lets end this arguing.


Thanks God that the "corruption" thing does not necessarily means the settlement wont load ingame, otherwise all of (or at least much of) my work over these years could be lost! oh my...

I need to retire, its like when you're too old to something or passed too much time on the job and no one in the office likes you anymore.

[Arkay]

Got this error after having deleted (very slowly) some structures in the northern_europen city (vanilla).

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[wilddog]

Got this error after having deleted (very slowly) some structures in the northern_europen city (vanilla).

Hi Arkay
You need to watch when deleting structures in case an object has groups in multiple structures. This will show in the structure column with something like 2,3 as per object 949, 950 etc. If you delete these structures it will likely crash as the number of object groups goes out of sync. You can delete the complex instead otherwise you need to address these split objects first.
These objects are only really split because they are using different textures.

Not sure whats causing the speed loss.

For the opens are you getting times similar to :

Request World file
Request worldcollision file
Request animinstances file
Request save file name it will be used for all files
Completed World File read = +0.8110
World File checks complete = +1.2610
collision read time = +0.2740
Animation read time = +0.1510
completed reading world file
Total Elapsed readfiles time = +2.6750

Curious, as I need to see how much its slowing down and where.
Also, instead of copying the screen shot of the error window you can just highlight the text, press return (to copy) and then do the usual ctl V to paste in the reply.

[Arkay]

Hello wilddog. Thanks, deleting complex seems to work.

Yes I think they're similar:

Request World file
Request worldcollision file
Request animinstances file
Request save file name it will be used for all files
Completed World File read = +0.6860
World File checks complete = +1.5110
collision read time = +0.2920
Animation read time = +0.0240
completed reading world file
Total Elapsed readfiles time = +2.9410

About the speed, it's just that deleting all the structures I need to delete (pretty much everything besides walls and "decoration" stuff) takes forever, well more than I expected.