IWTE - World editing - (General Discussion)

[wilddog]

wilddog please consider making the light stuff not just working but also as friendly as posible to IWTE users, like no need to crack the settlement in different compelxes or such things... I dont know anything about this but as I said, please try to make it as friendly as possible.

It will likely be just a button to press or not press. The complex thing is how the game handles effects and complexes. Basically the maximum effects assigned to a complex is 69 so only the first 69 will get used. If there are more assigned to a complex they have no effect. Assignment to a vertex will be based on order of assignment to the complex.
In your case where you opted not to split complexes down its pretty simple in that 69 is your limit. Unfortunately the process is equally long on your settlements (or longer) though as I can't cut down the vertexes quickly by eliminating those from other complexes which aren't in range.

[makanyane]

You seem to have a mis-match again - it works fine if you use a copy of the vanilla se_large_palisade_gate_close.anim and se_large_palisade_gate_close.mesh with names changed to suit your file path.


You must have picked the collision/animation from something using the SE large_wooden_palisade_gate anims...

you either need to re-pick it from something using the NE version, or use a version of the SE .anim and .mesh close files

[leo.civil.uefs]

Thanks mak its fixed now.

Now, I edited the vergetation distribution via IWTE for the sandy_desert climate. Ive set all boxes to +0.000 value and then got weird results:



these small rocks are everywere now!

Ive done some changes in the map_climates.tga and weather.db. For weather.db I think it has nothing to do with this issue, and map_climates was absolutelly not edited in the region where the issue occurs, so I belive it is really about the geography.db

the image is from a settlement battle and the veg3 goup its totally black.

In some tests I did changing the values, I got some strange results, like goups or these rocks forming a line on the terrain's extension, you can see something similar on the image.

EDIT: GOT IT. JUST MESED WITH SOME VALUE AND FOUND NOW A VERY FEW ROCKS. BUT STILL DONT UDNERSTAND HOW IT WORKS. IT WAS LUCK.

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Mak, while implementing esgaroth into TATW king kong had to change the plaza position saying the ai did not know how to handle my version.
The plaza is not half the distance it was in my original version... HOWEVER....

here comes the funny part...

Ive placed the plaza again in the original position and it works pretty well for AI as you can see on my yutorial video.

The damn problem is, another guy tried this version on its pc and it did not work! ANd even more, it just works in custom battle but not in campaign map! Ive tested it.

A mistery...

[makanyane]

Mak, while implementing esgaroth into TATW king kong had to change the plaza position saying the ai did not know how to handle my version.
The plaza is not half the distance it was in my original version... HOWEVER....

here comes the funny part...

Ive placed the plaza again in the original position and it works pretty well for AI as you can see on my yutorial video.

The damn problem is, another guy tried this version on its pc and it did not work! ANd even more, it just works in custom battle but not in campaign map! Ive tested it.

A mistery...

are the tests all using the same siege equipment? have found some odd stuff previously where ai might be OK if it has artillery and can break through a wall, but if it's got a ladder and doesn't know what to do with it, it might stall.

[leo.civil.uefs]

are the tests all using the same siege equipment? have found some odd stuff previously where ai might be OK if it has artillery and can break through a wall, but if it's got a ladder and doesn't know what to do with it, it might stall.

Hum... cant remember exactly, but anyway if this is the point, means that I cannot risk them working well with one siege setup and getting stuck with another one.
So I belive things must be as it is now. Its not that bad anyway.

[wilddog]

It will likely be just a button to press or not press. The complex thing is how the game handles effects and complexes. Basically the maximum effects assigned to a complex is 69 so only the first 69 will get used. If there are more assigned to a complex they have no effect. Assignment to a vertex will be based on order of assignment to the complex.
In your case where you opted not to split complexes down its pretty simple in that 69 is your limit. Unfortunately the process is equally long on your settlements (or longer) though as I can't cut down the vertexes quickly by eliminating those from other complexes which aren't in range.

I will wait for the next IWTE so I can really understand what are you talking about.

Leo - Its actually pretty simple. You use 1 complex rather than the standard setup. The maximum effects that have an effect on a complexes vertexes is 69. So if you have more than 69 effects close to a complex ... only the first 69 count. If you had more complexes then you could have more effects applying to the vertexes. If you have more than 69 they will appear as now and not light up the vertexes.

[alreadyded]

Is it possible to give forts on the strat map a village battle map? Or would it just crap out because forts need walls, gates, etc?


Answer: It works, but you still have to build siege equipment even though the battle map has no walls.

Thanks again for this tool, only took me a couple minutes to do it.

[leo.civil.uefs]

any chance of having the new version of IWTE soon? My stuff is ready to release and there is just the light stuff to be implemented.

[wilddog]

any chance of having the new version of IWTE soon? My stuff is ready to release and there is just the light stuff to be implemented.

Sorry Leo, whilst I finally got the culling to work I need to try and speed the code up a lot to be useful. Unfortunately took me a long time to find an error in the algorithm I was using. Suggest you release your stuff as is and then if anything needs fixing later then the new version should hopefully be ready.

I think the things I still need to complete are:-
1. Adjust effect position slightly (not taking into account a rotation/movement when setting up effects). The displacement isn't much so its minor but want to get it right for the effects settings against the complex vertexes.
2. Speed up vertex effect assignment.
3) Speed up and smooth the shading assignment.
4) Re-correct the 3d lighting view (revert back to what it was doing).
5) write shading info into milkshape model (this will likely be lost by others who import from milkshape into other modeling tools).
6) Read back shading from milkshape.

Think thats it.

[wilddog]

Just wanted to say Merry Christmas from wilddog and Mak.

Hoping to get one more version of IWTE out by the end of the year with hopefully most of the above items in it. Made good progress on the culling process yesterday. Still takes a while but quite drastically improved on what I was getting before.

[Nelduin]

Merry Christmas to you too! Thanks for the hard work you've put in this tool .

[leo.civil.uefs]

Merry Christmas, for the couple who gave us the biggest christmas gift ever, IWTE.

[Kull]

Merry Christmas, for the couple who gave us the biggest christmas gift ever, IWTE.

Absolutely! Merry Christmas Mak & Wilddog! M2TW modding would be a sad world without you!

[wilddog]

@Nelduin, Leo, Kull - Thanks guys. Hope you had a good Christmas too.

I've completed as far as I'm going to go on the Complex effects thing. Takes about 2.5 minutes to run on NE Huge city (which is one of the largest but could take twice as long dependent on PC/laptop) so think that's now acceptable. It lights the right vertexes and takes into account culling for intervening triangles. Its going to be a stand alone button due to the time to run. I used to call a 'check routine' which now gives a warning message until I write a shorter routine to handle deletion/adds of effects or changes to objects as they are all interlinked. Trying to get through the other items on the 'to do' list. Really want to get a final update out by end of the year.

[leo.civil.uefs]

hey mak... something interesting...

My gondorian castles are vanilla teutonic castles with different textures, as you know.

The only changes I did were, deleting the reflective plane (water) so the engine would actually load water from stratmap (better looking for places like Cair Andros), and then Ive just flatted these moats where the water was... not change on pathfinding, nothing more... aaaaaaaaand...

While finally playing my own campaign, I noticed that, THE AI BEHAVIOR/FUNCTIONALITY on these settlements were totally messed! Ram and ladder crews acting like idiots, getting stuck, doing nothing... rams desorientated going to the corner of the map... AI not beeing able to reach the plaza etc...

One more med2 engine mistery for me... it seems that the pathfinding is really extreemly sensitive as I previously said in my tutorial...
Of course I fixed it, just by using back the vanilla files.

Thanks God Im retiring...

[makanyane]

The only changes I did were, deleting the reflective plane (water) so the engine would actually load water from stratmap (better looking for places like Cair Andros), and then Ive just flatted these moats where the water was... not change on pathfinding, nothing more... aaaaaaaaand...

well, actually that does kind of change the pathfinding... when you've got a reflective plane the only thing stopping the troops moving is the .worldpathfinding file, if you've got 'real' water in then they troops can't walk through that past a certain depth... so the actual areas blocked will probably be slightly different

it's also possible that the battle map movement is a bit like the campaign map movement which is no-where near as logical as you might hope in terms of how the ai can get around!


are you sure you're retiring, you seem to have been saying that for quite a long while now

[leo.civil.uefs]

Yes mak... I lied in the past, but now its for real... there is just the lighting thing to be added and then bye bye... I swear, I must get rid of this obsession.

[wilddog]

The only changes I did were, deleting the reflective plane (water) so the engine would actually load water from stratmap (better looking for places like Cair Andros), and then Ive just flatted these moats where the water was... not change on pathfinding, nothing more... aaaaaaaaand...

While finally playing my own campaign, I noticed that, THE AI BEHAVIOR/FUNCTIONALITY on these settlements were totally messed! Ram and ladder crews acting like idiots, getting stuck, doing nothing... rams desorientated going to the corner of the map... AI not beeing able to reach the plaza etc...

One more med2 engine mistery for me... it seems that the pathfinding is really extreemly sensitive as I previously said in my tutorial...
Of course I fixed it, just by using back the vanilla files.

Not so much a mystery as to why you think it wouldn't have an effect? As soon as you introduced normal 'water' from rivers/sea you also changed the battlefield geography and vegetation composition. On a normal river crossing you can only cross via a bridge/ford so not sure the extent of your changes but it can change the battlefield significantly.

Separately, what versions of milkshape are people using. I'm using 1.8.5 and have been for some time. Its not normally significant but for the lighting I plan to write it as joints so it can be easily amended. However the formats of the weight section has changed a long while back (e.g. 1.8.2 is completely different and the weights will be lost if people are still using that version). Its mostly tied to a subversion setting which I think came in in version 1.8.4 (subversion 2 for the vertexes). I have made the amendment based on that.

[leo.civil.uefs]

You guys dont get me...

look at the teutonic citadel, there is some small water moat, I simply deleted the water plane, and then made the moat flat. But... this moat were already totally blocked by pathfinding, so I did not change in the pathfinding itself.

The strange is that, now even using a completly vanilla version, it still does not work for the AI. It works well i custom battles but not in its position in stramap, wich is the cair andros isle. I dont know, maybe it is the fact that the isle has its heigh elevated, so there is massive ramps on its sides ans this is influencing the pathfinding for the AI...


Hey uncle wilddog, where is my christmas gift? I want my lighty thing right now, its already 29th, you said santa would come...

[makanyane]

look at the teutonic citadel, there is some small water moat, I simply deleted the water plane, and then made the moat flat. But... this moat were already totally blocked by pathfinding, so I did not change in the pathfinding itself.

OK in that instance I'd have said try it with the reflective plane removed but the terrain left as it was and test if that works as the terrain steepness might be telling the ai something that the pathfinding on it's own isn't - if just removing the reflective plane changes it that'd be very odd

The strange is that, now even using a completly vanilla version, it still does not work for the AI. It works well i custom battles but not in its position in stramap, wich is the cair andros isle. I dont know, maybe it is the fact that the isle has its heigh elevated, so there is massive ramps on its sides ans this is influencing the pathfinding for the AI...

How vanilla? absolutely all the settlement files inc terrain? And are you sure it ever worked for that location? infantry and rams and things all have different degrees of slope they can cope with, so it might be just that they can't use the direct route up the slope (too steep) and are therefore getting lost trying to plot a zig-zag route??? The actual vanilla terrain has that flattening affect from the merge plane thingy ( the one I never know what to call )

Hey uncle wilddog, where is my christmas gift? I want my lighty thing right now, its already 29th, you said santa would come...

Santa says, that he said "by the end of the year..." - he's still trying - and also Please answer his question about which version of milkshape you use 1.8.2 or 1.8.5 etc?