IWTE - World editing - (General Discussion)

[Red_Devil]

Hi, I'va had a few issues with texturing. One is when I texture my model in MS3D, but don't get the same result in game.
To UV map the model, I fold the squares of the model like a piece of paper to fit the part of the texture I want... I don't know if it's the right method. or should I cut every square into one different group?
Thanks!
I will certainly have a lot more questions concerning the UV mapping of those models... :

[makanyane]

erm, I think that is a model problem not the uv.... it looks remarkably like it's inside out

In the 3d view screen in milkshape - right click inside the window and untick 'draw backfaces' you'll probably find that then looks like what you're getting in game if that is the case select all the bits of the model that are affected and go to 'Face' tab and click 'reverse vertex order'

To UV map the model, I fold the squares of the model like a piece of paper to fit the part of the texture I want..

I assume you mean you're 'folding' the uv in the texture coordinate editor window. That works to an extent but you'll get 'mirroring' at the folded edge (where the texture turns back on itself) that results in some unpleasant lighting effects at that point so it's generally best to avoid it. If you've got an edge where that is happening you can fix it by selecting faces on one side of the edge only in milkshape and moving their mapping very slightly - so it forces a split of the vertex.


As to whether to re-group stuff or not - sometimes it's easier to split up groups in milkshape temporarily, to stop them sharing vertexes and make it easier to move bits independently - the only time you wouldn't want to do that is if you're trying to keep something round looking which means you have to have continuous texture and shared vertexes at the corners... I can explain more about that if you need round things...

[Red_Devil]

Thanks for this fast answer and also for this great tool (all the people involved )
I'll test it right away!

Edit : It worked!
ready for some other issues now

Ok, It seems I fixed most of my texture problems simply by inverting all the vertexes to turn around all faces. thanks to you.

Just an issue with the lighting of the structure: the lighthouse seems to have the right texture but is it what you were talking about: folding the structure over the texture gives this result (first pic)? because I did this with another terrain elemnt and it works perfectly fine (second picture)(perhaps also depending on the direction of the sunlight?)

[makanyane]

first pic does look like the 'mirror' dodgy lighting issue - it will depend on the direction of light how much it shows up...

2nd one might be OK if at some point the textures got slightly split over the 'fold' point... can't really tell from the pic


Edit; actually I think the 2nd one is off as well - unless you want things to look rounded - select all the faces that face one way, .ie. left/west regroup them and move them to position on the uv map - select all the stuff facing front/north and do the same - basically so you haven't got anything that goes round a corner linked in same group across to another angle - & use select/deselect faces to move uvs for faces in the same plane instead of folding by reversing the positions of vertexes on the uv mapper - once the whole thing is mapped with the different angled planes not exactly sharing the same uv's (if you move it by hand it'll never exactly share) then you can regroup to however many objects you want IWTE to use.

I think I may need to do diagrams to help explain...

[Red_Devil]

ah, I think I understand what you mean...
I'll try it out later, but if I map a texture on one group and this groups (cylinder for example) may have a lighting problem, since the sun shines on one side of the group but the texture does not know how to behavesince the same group has also a shadow part?
so in my case, having an octogonal cylinder, I must group each side and texture it independently? makes sense...

I worked on one collision and it seems fine, but I still want to be sure about the textures before going further

[evenmov]

hi , may i ask some help here
i'm trying to add a wall to the map and i set everyting like deployment , door ,link and pathfinding under the block
but when i want to depoly units on the wall , it just show "X" ,can anyone tell me how to fix that ? i'am really hurry about that becasue i have work on it so many days

[evenmov]

hi , may i ask some help here
i'm trying to add a wall to the map and i set everyting like deployment , door ,link and pathfinding under the block
but when i want to depoly units on the wall , it just show "X" ,can anyone tell me how to fix that ? i'am really hurry about that becasue i have work on it so many days

i just post my question here because i really have done all the thing someone have mentioned , add deployment block , add door and link and modify pathfinding file , i just have one success and then i never have it again , when i want to depoly units it just show"x" -- can not deploy it ..

i thought i have done everything but why it does work ( or why it doesn't work every time)
i have done the rest part of my city .. now this is the last question before i finished my city .. so i am hurry ... god , let someone help me ,please

[Red_Devil]

Sorry evenmov, no idea about that. I'm not at that stage yet...

about my texture issue, I got it: I did not set the right normal.texture right. I should have thought of it earlier.

now again, another problem, classic I guess, but I checked KKs tutorial and did not find anything except the gate and pathfinding issue:
-I took the base pathfinding, changed it to TGA, had an image with green and blue, put all in green and changed the pathfinding from this.
-I added a gate, a gate house, added a collision of 0° to the gate, and added object breach/door to the gate.

The defender still wins the battle every time, because of the lack of time apparently.

[evenmov]

i just have the same question one time ... but when i finished other work such as pizza , depolyment area ..and so on ,it just have work ok itself .. so i do not know which make it happen , why not just doing other work .. maybe it will be ok later

sorry for the wrong maybe in my answer ,becasue i just new here ,too

[evenmov]

i am so mad .....
i use aztec city for test , everytime i add deploy ,it works ,when i want to add the second wall ,it failed , so i use a new aztec city for begin , then deploy good , the second wall failed ... it measn only one will success , and never success ... wierd ... what's the problem ..

[wilddog]

@Red_Devil - check the breach pathfinding actually has a breach in it. you need to edit it. By default it would pick up the area covered by the building so you have to amend.

@evenmov - not really understanding what you are doing. Try less frequent posts with more information. The original post sounded like you hadn't set up the wall with a collision.

[Red_Devil]

Thanks wilddog, will check this out.

Edit:
okay, I didn't really get it : :
I added the starting kit to be sure everything needed was there. (structures >> add structures ms3d >> starting kit)
I took the gatehouse object, and defined it as a gatehouse (mainobjects >> create main object) same with the gate as gate main_object.
before this, I had to add a collision to the gate which i did. from there, do I have to change the pathfinding? the TGA compiled is totally "green"... I know I'm repeating myself, but one never knows.

I'll test taking back from the base settlement tomorrow doing one thing at a time to see what causes this (vanilla citadel >> changing .worldterrain >> deleting one complex after another >> deleting the structures of the last complex until one gate remains >> adding my own gate structure >> deleting the last vanilla structure... (thinking outloud...)
but will I have to change the pathfinding? Do I change it to full green or let it as it is?

[makanyane]

Thanks wilddog, will check this out.

Edit:
okay, I didn't really get it : :
I added the starting kit to be sure everything needed was there. (structures >> add structures ms3d >> starting kit)
I took the gatehouse object, and defined it as a gatehouse (mainobjects >> create main object) same with the gate as gate main_object.
before this, I had to add a collision to the gate which i did. from there, do I have to change the pathfinding? the TGA compiled is totally "green"... I know I'm repeating myself, but one never knows.

I'll test taking back from the base settlement tomorrow doing one thing at a time to see what causes this (vanilla citadel >> changing .worldterrain >> deleting one complex after another >> deleting the structures of the last complex until one gate remains >> adding my own gate structure >> deleting the last vanilla structure... (thinking outloud...)
but will I have to change the pathfinding? Do I change it to full green or let it as it is?

There's about three different things that get called 'pathfinding' which doesn't really help...

The .worldpathfinding file that get's converted to a .tga and back is where troops can normally walk at ground level - green is open - blue closed. You actually need closed under your walls and gate position. You can match that up easiest by using 'amend pathfinding in 2D' option and 'view world' at the same time, then make the changes in the 2d window - hitting OK at the end will save a new pathfinding file that you need to rename to replace the old one.

view of the area around my gatehouse showing pathfinding closed bits (don't worry about colours - any square other than the base colour is closed in the 2d view method)




If you call an object a wall/gate BEFORE you add the collision then the process of adding the collision should add the other relevant bits you need - you may either want to do the process again or select the gate object and try 'Mainobjects' 'add object breach/doors' and 'add object siege docking'

The breach is like a little mini-pathfinding section inside the .world file that just operates when the gate is open/destroyed. You can view where yours are by using 'views' tab 'view gates/breaches -2d'


pic is the one for my gate - if you 'edit path values' on it you can change the open /blocked bits - should be blocked under the bits of gatehouse and... importantly... open under the gate!

the little red square shown is the docking point which you also need - docking for a gate is always 'ram'


(the other bit of 'pathfinding' is what Evenmov is playing with - getting the infantry onto wall surfaces)

[evenmov]

thank you wilddog , please let me make my question more easy to understand

i have failed so many time when i want to make the wall of my own settlement can be deploy , so i thought
maybe i should have a “clear start“

then i use “ first kit“ (which have three different wall) to learn how to make a deployment block on wall , i check the object window of iwte find the wall already have collision , pathfinding and so on , so i just add a deployment block and add two door and link between them , i though i have finish it so began to test and then i meet the problem which as same as the old one of my own settlement --- it just show “x“ rather than “ο“ , just like where have a pathfinding set and troops can not move to it ,, seems like deployment block do not work

I have read many reply you guys have discussed before i send my question , i know the wall need collision , wall attribute , seige dock , deployment block , pathfinding , door , ladddr link and perimeter 1 , the wall work but just can not deploy troops
So there are my question
1 . Are there other part i have forget so the wall can not deploy
2 . The sequence of every set must be correct ?( for example collision must be first and then ~ .etc )

3. Why should collision have angle , i think the angle use to set the breach of a broken wall ,am i right? If i was right , when a roof ( do not have breach and won't broken , or like gatehouse ) need to deploy , which angle should be right ?

[evenmov]

can any updata this file again ? it seems can not download .. or would you please send it to my mail evenmov@126.com . really need this file to learn
http://www.gamefront.com/files/17563637/large_city.rar/

[makanyane]

@evenmov - thanks for the calmer explanation!

I haven't got a copy of KK's starter kit but I did a similar one of my own here;
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/downl...o=file&id=3596

if you test on that then I can compare results with you.

1 . Are there other part i have forget so the wall can not deploy

If you extended the settlement a lot you can sometimes have a problem where you're outside the 'world bounding sphere' - tool doesn't recalculate that every time as it takes too long - you can make it do it by using 'Structures' tab & 'World B Sphere recalc' then re-saving the files.

EDIT: do also make sure your 'ground level door' is somewhere near ground level! You need to input the height value manually or it'll default to 0.0m - you can either use 'view world' combined with 'Terrain 1' 'view terrain in 2d window' to find the approx ground height or use the ms3d model in the area to compare to.

2 . The sequence of every set must be correct ?( for example collision must be first and then ~ .etc )

no - there's nothing about the number sequence of collisions - each object must have a collision that's made to match it's shape (by the tool or re-assigned from an old one).

Use 'views' 'view world -2d' , you should see a plan of your settlement with perimeter colours
grey=not in perimeter
blue=perimeter 1
green=perimeter2 (if you had one - for two rings of walls)
purple=perimeter3 (If you had one - for three rings of walls)

zoom that view around to find the problem bit of wall - use 'View Col World tposed'
which means (view the collisions of the objects transposed to the position they're used)

if things are correct all the objects that have collisions should have turned Orange as the collision is shown on top of their position


shows me checking one of my walls - the blue bit is missing it's collision.

if the orange bits are a different shape or misplaced then the collision is mis-assigned and needs doing again for that object.

3. Why should collision have angle , i think the angle use to set the breach of a broken wall ,am i right? If i was right , when a roof ( do not have breach and won't broken , or like gatehouse ) need to deploy , which angle should be right ?

angle is only really relevant if you're trying to re-use an existing collision - e.g. if you've copied an existing CA wall/gate and want to use it complete with it's animation - then you'd use 'Collision/Anim' tab 'assign animation/collision' or 'pick new animation/collision' to copy one from an existing file.

All the CA collisions I've found are set with outer wall face (the bit with the battlements) facing down at 0 degree angle. If you wanted to re-use that wall collision but have it facing to the left you'd need to turn the angle pointer to 90 degrees, etc... use 'view object' and then 'view col object transposed' to check if things ended up in the right place. If you just want to see what shape and direction an existing collision is before its assigned to a new object; select an existing object using it and then use 'collision/anim' tab and 'view object collision at (0,0)'.

Collision file contains the collisions as though they were models centred at 0,0 and then uses a displacement matrix to assign them to the object position. The rotation angle is the angle they get turned through to match the object. In theory collisions could also be rotated around 'z' but it would get way too complicated in the tool - and as you don't normally want to tilt walls etc - so tool only deals with rotating things in plan view.

If you've just making new collisions you can just leave the arrow set down to 0 for everything. If you want to re-use a collision you've already made (if you have identical bits repeating, it reduces the collision file size) then you need to change the angle in 'Assign Object Collision' if you're using it for an identical object that's been placed at a different angle...

How the collision file works is a tad complicated, but messing around with those 'view' buttons should help you understand.

[evenmov]

you just point out what i have missed .... i do not set ground door automatically and forgot to set counter-part of wall to collision ... thank you makanyane and wilddog !

[Red_Devil]

I was about to hang myself, but perseverance paid off. The advice you gave me made me understand better how to define new gates or other mainobjects, but it wasn't that...

I tried for a few hours, but no results. after a few dozen unsuccessful tests, I read what you wrote to evenmov, and learned about the perimeter options, and it all made sense.

I did not have one gate per perimeter, so now I have assigned all gates but one to no perimeter and still have to delete a few, but I tested with one and the battle still runs. I guess that I'll have to figure out how to replace the last one later on.

Your explenations are great makanyane, especially with your very helpfull screens. I understood some stuff that seemed complex to me, but makes more sense now eventhough it's not fully acquired ...

Thanks again! meaning I will not hesitate to bother you with a few billion questions once I meet my next issue with the IWTE...

[makanyane]

Not sure you have understood... so the 'fix' might be co-incidence!

You can have more than one gate in a perimeter - existing towns have lots in perimeter one.

The rule is that each perimeter has to have at least one gate. You only have the second perimeter if you have an inner wall you have to break through after the first one.

Large castle is an example of 2 perimeters. Fortress is an example of 3 perimeters.

[Red_Devil]

Not sure you have understood... so the 'fix' might be co-incidence!

You can have more than one gate in a perimeter - existing towns have lots in perimeter one.

The rule is that each perimeter has to have at least one gate. You only have the second perimeter if you have an inner wall you have to break through after the first one.

Large castle is an example of 2 perimeters. Fortress is an example of 3 perimeters.

Yes, that's what I understood : at least one gate per perimeter has to exist. a citadell has perimeter_1(3); perimeter_2(2); perimeter_3(2) gates.

one question though : does one perimeter have to be one closed area in the worldpathfinding? or does it only tell the AI how much defensive rings there are and where they are (so only a help to the AI to tell it where to defend/attack or withdraw)? I've seen the "defense point option" is that complementary? (certainly getting ahead of myself in the discovery of the tool... )

edit: well, apparently no need to close all perimeters. edited pathfinding and the battle works perfect! will soon have problems placing the remaining gate though...