IWTE - World editing - (General Discussion)

**wilddog** · February 21, 2010, 12:10 PM

Originally Posted by Rozanov

in descr_strat where we put forts and watchtowers - are there other building types that work there - presume "forts" for buildings on battle maps?

Think those are the only ones but haven't really looked into that bit for a year or so.

do "forts" need plazas and deployment zones before they can be used on battle maps as forts ?
(I'm thinking probably yes or how how else is the game engine going to know who wins?)

You need a plaza to 'capture' and you need a deployment zone in order to 'setup the defence'. Though I never tried it without. It should enable you to convert most ambients to something that can be 'held'. The only item I know that can cause a problem is tied to the 6th float (I think I referred to it as the 7th float). Essentially there are a lot of attributes which affect the header number (not the sequential number) and it has to be a valid entry or it crashes. So at the moment you can convert say lake_a (hamlet by a lake) to use as a village but if you use the large hamlet and remove the roadmarkers I think it crashes (we were doing some tests on that and got a crash but as I haven't added the option to add or remove the roadmarkers yet I wasn't too bothered.

Please make sure its the version 1v3_1 you are using also.

Let me know if changing the deployment outline is too slow - I want to use a similar process for some other things.

Originally Posted by wolfslayer

With latest 3.1 version I can't open binary file - it prompts for other related files and then tries to save ..?

The read me says .. 2) Worldfiles - This is where you read or save the world, collision and animinstance binary files - these always ask for all 3 files and a save name. This is to support the extension of the objects table and because it was easier to ask for everything upfront (see below readme from v 1.2).

Is this what you are seeing or something else?

**Gorrrrrn** · February 21, 2010, 05:03 PM

tx - for that - I have some ideas for some of the civilian buildings which characters can visit or be held in.
Being able to use something other than a normal will help with that.
So Provided we call them forts we can put any ambient building there if we can create some sort of plaza and deployment zone.
---------------------------
Ok have done some ambient buildings with plaza outside the building (they're not meant for defensive purposes) and deployment zone.
(I'm not going to attempt to change the buildings at this stage as not required for project.)
only problem I had was trying to use the deployment zone on the huge_farm_a complex - the corners kept coming unstuck.
No big problem as I have plenty of others to play with.

descr_strat allows you call a fort whatever you like once you put fort at the start of the entry and everything seems ticketyboo but
on my battlemaps:
I first tried an unamended worldpkgdesc and the game parser is happy with that -you just get a wooden fort.
tried a simple edit of worldpkgdesc to change ambient to settlement (as per other forts); call it type default_fort variant name of building.
and the parser was happy with that when loading but still wooden fort on battlemap.
finally carefully stuck all the elements from a working fort worldpkgdesc - environment, faction etc with the relevant unprinting hex numbers
and saved that.
The parser now throws it out. which suggests there's a problem with the worldpkgdesc at the parsing stage.
I'll go back into the hex editor and see if I can work out the problem.

**wilddog** · February 22, 2010, 11:03 AM

Originally Posted by Rozanov

So Provided we call them forts we can put any ambient building there if we can create some sort of plaza and deployment zone.

Yes that's right they would all have the 'fort effects' though and could be sieged etc.

**Gorrrrrn** · February 22, 2010, 03:02 PM

I'm very close to getting there.
Using the large_fortified_house_a, the parser accepts it now (missed a pair of 00 originally)
game loads, faction selection etc.
move general and troops to attack rebel held large_fortified_house_a, game almost loads the battlemap and then CTD
any idea what comes next

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

**wilddog** · February 22, 2010, 04:05 PM

@Rozanov I'll look at that tomorrow. I'm pretty sure the issue is the one I was trying to describe that we encountered if the 6th float table is used. The problem is just working out what number should be used for those headers.

I'll try the same thing and see if I can suss it out. I mainly tried with the fortified large Hamlet which has roadmarkers. We got a crash using the lake_a which without the lake is the same as the hamlet but without the road markers.

**Gorrrrrn** · February 22, 2010, 05:52 PM

I used the ne_village zip file posted elsewhere as the template which has the 06 before the second set of elements.

(have checked and the ne_village "fort" works properly.)

I'm well aware that it can take me ages to get a worldpkgdesc file right but find it interesting that the 2 medium buildings:
medium_monestry_a and medium_fortified_house_a won't parse on load up; whereas I've got three large ones that do parse:
large_monestry_a, large_fortified_house_a and large_country_estate_a
(of those three the first 2 give a CTD when loading a battle and with the last I get a wooden fort.)
------------------------------------------
solved the wooden fort on the last one - now CTDs like the other two.
-----------------------------------------

all or any of which may be down to errors in the worldpkgdesc file I've created.

**wolfslayer** · February 22, 2010, 06:05 PM

If you upload or send me se_large_monastery I have a pathfinding file for the inside, would like to check it out..remember if there's no open areas for the defending units to deploy it will probably CTD..

wild..WP3.tga files..cam they be recompiled?

**Gorrrrrn** · February 22, 2010, 06:11 PM

well I put the plazas outside the buildings and the deployment zone goes right around everything, however i ddin't change any of the pathfinding so it's possible
that some might have plazas in the wrong place or there may be no path to them?

I've copied over the se_monastery_large files to my SS folders but haven't tried a worldpkgdesc fie for it yet.
once I have, I'll upload what I've done so far.

**wolfslayer** · February 22, 2010, 06:16 PM

I haven't tried deployment or plazas with an ambient settlement settlement yet, will take a look tonight..;-)

**Gorrrrrn** · February 22, 2010, 06:37 PM

OK here's se_large_monastery.

I did the worldpkgdesc, it parsed OK on loading.
placed it on strat map and loaded up suitable faction.

same as before CTD after loading textures on battlemap.

It's the whole file with amended .world, anims and coll files but original pathfinding and terrain. plus my worldpkgdesc.

Attachment 76003

hopefully I'll be back tomorrow and find what I've been doing wrong!

**wolfslayer** · February 22, 2010, 07:11 PM

First thing you ALWAYS do when modifying a settlement is: does it load okay on Grassy Plain in the BATTLE EDITOR? If it shows up ok there, then test in custom battle or whatnot..

Also never name your new settlement/fort after an existing (stock) ambient settlement, it will cause nothing but grief..

EDIT: Well LOL I got it to load in a custom battle but some strange bugs, up in the air which blanks out the pathfinding inside, enemy couldnt get up there if they wanted....you didnt have a PLAZA either in your model=CTD..this may have something to do with the FLATTENING PLANE all plaza settlements seem to have?? I renamed it to the rozastery..un7z into the se_monastery_large folder..it will sit alongside the ambient files.

Try a custom battle..fort SE..defender genoa..

WILDDOG..check the terrain tga generation in 1.31..had to use 1.2 to make a tga for se monastery..

2nd pic is ME_large_monastery as a settlement w/ plaza..same raised terrain..both are flat in battle editor..

**wilddog** · February 23, 2010, 01:36 AM

Originally Posted by wolfslayer

WILDDOG..check the terrain tga generation in 1.31..had to use 1.2 to make a tga for se monastery..

Originally Posted by wolfslayer

wild..WP3.tga files..cam they be recompiled?

I'll check these tonight after work. Sounds like I made a mistake when I was resetting some of the file usages.

**wolfslayer** · February 23, 2010, 08:31 AM

Also the generate World Object tga for WP is limited in size to 221? It works fine for smaller models, generating a 161 x tga for a 160 x WP rounds to an exact match when overlayed, most of the settlements are larger than the 221 limit, that function is a no go in that respect..

In v2 you could generate the Veg world Object by itself with no values, in 31 it seems you need to enter something (>221 random odd?) to get it to generate, I need to look at both again to see how I got it to work..

**Gorrrrrn** · February 23, 2010, 08:42 AM

wolfslayer - tx for the advice.

not used battle editor since it first came out (whenever that was -looked too complicated so i forgot all about it!)
(SS doesn't enable it so it's easily forgotten if you don't use it.)
I use the campaign map coz I know my way around that, if somewhere does load there then it should be fine.
(also the location I use I know works and there's a garrison there too.)
(If it doesn't I know i have to go back and try and work out what went wrong.
normally I do rename files, all a bit rushed last night, apologies.

still learning about this editing stuff - tried the .tga thing but it just sat there for ages, so I carried on without it.
(was getting later and later)

anyway will wait for next edition of tool - better still I'll go and do something else for now -
(looks like some kind person has bought me NTW IE - so I suppose I'd better have a look at that when it arrives.)

(Or maybe I'll try checking the files on the other ambient buildings I was doing to see if they have plazas -
I may have forgotten to press the accept button after moving them around in some cases.

Are there conditions for placement - do they need to be anywhere special? or not anywhere.

I've no idea about the height stuff - playing around with the battle editor just now and the ambient se monastery does sit on a large mound -
does it do that by default?
---------------------------------------
First two buildings I check - one has no plaza - but has now.

the other generated the following error report:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

don't know if I'm the cause of that?

---------------------------------------------------------------
and the good news is:
Attachment 76091

the me_country_est_large as it is now called on the campaign map.
just west of Kerak

**wolfslayer** · February 23, 2010, 09:48 AM

"NTW IE" Be seeing you..

Maybe a new thread on ambient sceneries, we'll keep this thread clear for the IWTE tools..

I think the issue is the plaza forces the whole settlement to some averaged height..negative values in the deployment zone don't seem to affect the settlement height..I tried a few spots and some almost level, some not..looks like you found a nice flat spot for the estate.

Way back I posted how to enable battle ed in SS6x, I see if I can repost; must have for custom tiles..

**Gorrrrrn** · February 23, 2010, 10:33 AM

Have battle editor up and running thus:
[features]
editor = true
in the stainless steel .cfg file.
--------------
have two more ambients as "forts" - deployment zones are tight, but they're not really intended as defensive positions, which I've confirmed on campaign map.
me_sm_monestary_a
ne_la_monestry_a

shows the tool is working but I'd recommend a fall-back dialogue when saving binaries asking if user wants to save plaza and deployment details,
it's not readily apparent that you need to OK both (it's reasonably clear when you know, but new users (ahem) might not grasp the obvious!)

anyways as the SS Role-Playing project sort of requires some of these structures we can post them there and invite suggestions for alternative meanings for them.

Big TX for help from wolfslayer and wilddog on this.

**wilddog** · February 23, 2010, 12:02 PM

Originally Posted by wolfslayer

Also the generate World Object tga for WP is limited in size to 221? It works fine for smaller models, generating a 161 x tga for a 160 x WP rounds to an exact match when overlayed, most of the settlements are larger than the 221 limit, that function is a no go in that respect..

In v2 you could generate the Veg world Object by itself with no values, in 31 it seems you need to enter something (>221 random odd?) to get it to generate, I need to look at both again to see how I got it to work..

There is nothing that exceeds 221 limit that I ever found the Northern European huge city is only 145 size for example. Consequently the validation checks you can't put anything in above 221 otherwise it defaults back to 221. In version 1.2 this defaulted always to 221 but you said you wanted the ability to use your own size. If you use the correct size which can be obtained by looking at the world terrain file then they will match. If you tell it its size is smaller than it actually is then it will probably crash the TGA creation.

The correct size is given if you opt to resize say the world terrain file and in the command window it will say something like :

from wt section
nrows = 145
ncols = 145
nentries = 21025

you can then just cancel.

This is the number of vertices in the base model and the vegetation and pathfinding have size parameters in their files also. The .world doesn't so you have to enter the right value or shove something big in and it will default to 221. The 221 figure is as far as i could work out the equivalent to the entire battlemap tile you can move around. As there is no direct connection I would guess it will crash the game if you actually created models that took you outside the base for the model (I never tested that to confirm. On the other hand the game will probably still take bases larger than 221 but not sure how much larger so the tool doesn't allow it.

Originally Posted by wolfslayer

wild..WP3.tga files..cam they be recompiled?

Yes they can be read in but they are converted back to the simple TGA2 version. As afar as I know this has no adverse impact (but if you know otherwise let me know).

Originally Posted by wolfslayer

WILDDOG..check the terrain tga generation in 1.31..had to use 1.2 to make a tga for se monastery..

Couldn't see any issue here. Makanyane also tested. Anything more specific you can tell me?

Originally Posted by wolfslayer

2nd pic is ME_large_monastery as a settlement w/ plaza..same raised terrain..both are flat in battle editor..

Use the resize options to increase the size of all 3 of the landscape files. When doing it for the terrain you should switch on the merge distance vertex count and set the vertexes over which the merge should take place. You can correct or amend this by simply amending the alpha layer of the tga. This controls the blend of the settlement with the battlemap background when used in the game. NB use the option to see the affect and then use the alpha for the TGA to smooth - adjust as you want.

**makanyane** · February 23, 2010, 01:06 PM

Originally Posted by wilddog

Use the resize options to increase the size of all 3 of the landscape files. When doing it for the terrain you should switch on the merge distance vertex count and set the vertexes over which the merge should take place. You can correct or amend this by simply amending the alpha layer of the tga. This controls the blend of the settlement with the battlemap background when used in the game. NB use the option to see the affect and then use the alpha for the TGA to smooth - adjust as you want.

When you resize the terrain file any tga masks its using will get stretched to fit the larger terrain - so if its got any pathways or farms etc drawn onto terrain they'll turn up in wrong place.

To fix that you need to change the tga masks (found in '/maps / overlays/' within the folder) - think the procedure to get them back in right place was reduce them in image size by the proportion you just increased the terrain size... then add canvas size with the original centered in middle to get it back to original tga size... If you need to make new version use different tga from existing file, you need to change the path which is written inside the .worldterrain with hex editor.

@ wolfslayer - If you find something that doesn't appear to work with tool, and you've had tool open and doing other stuff for a while, its worth closing it and trying again with tool re-started from fresh... it's hung a couple of times for me when I've been doing long sequence of operations - but then worked OK doing same thing at start. (its not done that consistently enough for me to be able to tell WD anything specific is causing the problem though.... if you notice any particular sequence of events causes problem please say)

**wilddog** · February 23, 2010, 01:33 PM

Originally Posted by Rozanov

have two more ambients as "forts" - deployment zones are tight, but they're not really intended as defensive positions, which I've confirmed on campaign map.
me_sm_monestary_a
ne_la_monestry_a

shows the tool is working but I'd recommend a fall-back dialogue when saving binaries asking if user wants to save plaza and deployment details,
it's not readily apparent that you need to OK both (it's reasonably clear when you know, but new users (ahem) might not grasp the obvious!)

I was trying to tidy that up but rushed things a bit. Deployment hides a lot of the buttons but I missed one of the variable data tabs. Plaza only hides some Plaza buttons. I need to tidy that up to avoid people switching between editing one item and then moving straight onto the other without doing the accept of the variable data... for the moment always deal with one object then save.

Also ignore the height bit in the deployment variable data box. Its added to the file but has no effect for that object.

**Gorrrrrn** · February 23, 2010, 07:11 PM

Second batch of 4 buildings went well - got 3 to work. I'm a lot more organised now and have the correct order of things to do.
Brain also beginning to think in hex again.

Only issue is one refered to above - if you don't accept the plaza before starting on the deployment zone it gets a bit messed up.
As you say you really must accept the plaza before doing anything with the deployment area.

My current modus operandi:
1) select building/s from unpacked m2tw files (max 4 from now on)
2) copy into my working folder
3) rename folders and files so I know what I'm doing
4) redo the worldpkgdesc file for each building
5) check loads in M2tw (and alter until it does)
6) check appears in battle editor under new name
7) run through IWTE. do plaza and accept. then do deployment area and accept. Save binary files.
8) tidy filenames if necessary
9) repeat 5 and 6
10) insert into descr_strat and check it works in campaign.

I'm not too bothered about pathfinding etc at this stage as I'm hoping to use the buildings for non-military purposes,
but I expect other people would carry on, refining the end product.
---------------------
3 batches of 3 "forts" now posted, (with a final batch of 3 to go up soon.)

That'll do me for now - I wish anyone doing more the best of luck.
wanted: .worldpkgdesc validator tool

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