IWTE - World editing - (General Discussion)

[wilddog]

New version IWTE_21_01_A now released.

with version 21_01_A
1) Now added ability to combine mount (horse) with rider and 2 weapons (weapon and shield normally) with multi animations into the collada interface so they can be edited in Blender (and likely 3dsmax).
2) Added ability to apply the scale factor to the cas skeletons when generating dae and reading back.
3) Added ability to read modeldb file and do some edit checking, reformatting of linebreaks (to show the structure a bit more clearly) and creation of 3 CSV files which can be separately edited and reloaded to reform a modeldb file.
4) bug fixes to help support 3dsmax handling of collada data (world anim effects, fade and skeletons with no mesh assigned).

[AnthoniusII]

Question: In the last version of the tool that works with milkshape can we make strat_map models of generals, captains , ammbasadors etc?
And if yes could you show a couple of steps to proceed?

[wilddog]

Question: In the last version of the tool that works with milkshape can we make strat_map models of generals, captains , ammbasadors etc?
And if yes could you show a couple of steps to proceed?

Not sure why you say in the last version of the tool that works with milkshape as it implies something is no longer working. As far as I know the milkshape items that used to work should all still work. No one has posted anything saying otherwise. However, the answer to your question on strat map generals, captains, ambasadors is no as I've only added cas model and mesh/cas (ie battle units) using a collada interface which supports Blender and should support 3dsmax.

[wilddog]

new release
with version 21_01_B
1) Bug fixes on merging multiple mount unit combinations (wrong offset if merge included a full set of bones).
2) Bug fix for cas models due to introduction of extra parameters.
3) Change in Siege engine process so that amended animations create the same (i.e. the default) pose values. CA's siege models have different ones which is a pain. eg Catapult and Trebuchet.

[Sauron puppet of Saruman]

Hi, I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask but as it is in the correct forum of people for the question, I've been stuck trying to figure out a texture/shader issue with my imported models to IWTE.


When I make a settlement and I import ms3d models into IWTE, sometimes the model attracts a dark shade over it. I've compared the same model with 'normal' coloured models and it becomes noticeably darker the closer I zoom to the structure. Sometimes I can make it go away by merging the model with a working ms3d model before importing, but I have not consistently found out why it does it and how to fix it. What is IWTE reading? I normally recycle vanilla or other assets from existing settlements – is it conflicting collision data?

For illustration, I've attached an image of a segment of a wall that is much darker than the rest of the structure. This was copied out of the original structure and moved to its new position. Note it shouldn't have anything to do with the shadows cast by the nearby buildings because I've tried it in open areas and it is still dark.




Thanks!

[wilddog]

Hi, That pic is so dark its almost impossible to see anything. Not sure what is meant to be that dark in the pic and what isn't. Is it a night battle? Are the lit up bits from torches? Basically the world files have 2 types of vertex shading. One is for effects eg torches, fires and the other is for shading (greyscale eg for internal corners). There is a default set and there are buttons under animation which can be used to reset them. Unfortunately there have been various changes made on these with people preferring lighter or darker so its been changed a lot over the years. Take a back up and try the object shading but you may need to reset the world ones in the end. During this year I expect to enhance that functionality further to allow people to more easily set things to their tastes. Unfortunately some of the corner type shading does not work unless you set the models up correctly in the first place as its tied to figuring out what is a corner and what is something that is just hidden. Hope that helps.

[Sauron puppet of Saruman]

Thanks for the reply.

I tried resetting the animations but it didn't have effect. I thought it might be similar to the disco lighting effect, and I've seen older posts talk about 'resetting complex effects' in the collision tab - but has that option been removed or moved somewhere else with the current version? I don't see it under there.

It is also not to do with the lighting because, in answer to your questions, it is not a night battle (but has a dark mordor-type skybox), and yes, there is a torch lighting effect underneath it, but the black texture bug persists when the light is turned off, and has been present before I put that light there. I've attached hopefully clearer pictures below.

Re the 'shading for internal corners' type of shaping, yeah it might be. But where do I play around the options for it? Is it with the importing of the model - I see in ms3d that the objects can be assigned to the 'darker' or 'lighter' joints. I've always assigned them to the lighter joint, but maybe it's a creature and residue of exporting a model from IWTE itself? Like how object groups retain their naming system when exported to ms3d format. What would be the way to change this vertex shading assignment?

Picture of dark texture in Battle Editor, seen on a sunny day:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Picture of joints assignment in milkshape:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Sauron puppet of Saruman]

P.s. In that first picture, the clearest indication of the bug can be seen on the two metal walls + towers on the front right side. The one at the back is much brighter, whereas the test set at the front is very dark, even when it is not underneath any shadows.

Thanks!

[makanyane]

Hi Sauron, please could you send me the .world .worldcollision .animinstances and the textures for the effected bits so I can have a look?

I'm wondering if it might be a problem with your model normals, but it would be easier to look at the files than keep asking questions....

[Sauron puppet of Saruman]

Hi makanyane,

I suspect something with the normals as well; wish I started with 3ds max which would have been much easier for me to check, but milkshape is easier for moving building parts around. A bit rusty with milkshape as the last time I did m2tw modding was a few years ago...

I have uploaded the files: a clear example of the 'dark texture' is structure 132; as compared to the same type of model + texture in structure 128. I am convinced it happens at the milkshape stage of the model, not IWTE settings applied after; I have tried regrouping a 'dark texture' object into the same group as a normally working object, but still the part of the mesh that was bugged before continues to be bugged and dark; the normal part of the mesh remains normally shaded. Note the meshes in structures 128-130 used to be dark as well, but after some merging, they are now shaded properly.

Link to the 3 binaries:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

https://we.tl/t-raPAkes3Yg
(file is larger than the 10mb upload limit so used a link instead)

Thanks!

[Sauron puppet of Saruman]

I think I accidentally replied without logging in: if the message is lost, I have pm'ed you as a backup makanyane

[wilddog]

Hi Sauron. Which version of milkshape and which version of IWTE were you using please?

Ok saw it was 1.8.4 Mak will respond but you aren't setting the light/dark bone weights.

[Sauron puppet of Saruman]

I was using milkshape 1.8.4. Maybe that's the reason?

[makanyane]

OK - it's definitely the bone weighting light/dark thing, at some point you've got them set to 100% darker what you're viewing in your milkshape pic you posted is the smoothing group colour - you need 'draw vertices with bone colours' selected to see the bone assignment:



Your problem one shows clearly as assigned to darker, I switched that over to 100% lighter and replaced the structure then re-wrote it out again and IWTE seems to be behaving itself and returning what it was given...


Let me know if you need any help on how to change the weighting.

You could run the re-shading thing on it but that will get you a slightly different result as it darkens around any acute angles:


The buttons for that are on the animations tab: Obj world shading/effects inc anims, or Full world shading/effects inc anims, but be warned if you've not designed the buildings to suit that you might not get results you like (e.g. you can get unexpected dark/light bits if the way planes intersect is inconsistent)

[wilddog]

Sauron, one other thing. Depending on how much you really like milkshape and or want use/avoid blender you may want to try using the blender interfaces as you can do things on a larger scale within that.

[Sauron puppet of Saruman]

Thanks Makanyane, that was exactly the trick - it works now quite fine, but there's still a puzzle in that in the ms3d file before I import into IWTE, the mesh is assigned to 'lighter' and not darker. When I write ms3d in IWTE, and view that file, yes, it becomes all assigned to 'darker' and by reassigning to lighter it works. So I'm wondering whether there's some corruption in the reading of the original ms3d file and it's joint labels? Does IWTE work off identifying the name of the joints in ms3d or does it do something more technical than that? I may have been using my ms3d files in many iterations, merging things over and disassembling them to make some other structure again.

I got a picture here showing the assignment in the original ms3d file to the 'lighter' bone when I press 'show' (darker bone is purple coloured - and I know this is the case because when I assign some vertices to 'darker' it does change colour to purple). Unless I'm direly missing something?

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Two more things: could I ask what do the values in the 'Obj world shading/effects inc anims' table mean? Everything I view seems to have +11.00 +9.00 +1.50 +2.00 reading the table left to right, top to bottom. Are these parameters for determining how shading is done in a manner that respects corners &c?
Also re blender, would I just use an ms3d exporter each time I do a model? I have to admit I find blender quite unfamiliar atm, because my primary modeling program is 3ds max. Is there anything equivalent for 3ds max? (Though, afaik, one thing I prefer ms3d over 3dsmax for doing these building models is the ability to select vertices across multiple groups with ease and do stuff with them.)

Thanks for all the help

[makanyane]

If you've got a repeatable problem, e.g. you've still got a copy of the ms3d that goes in light and comes out dark can you send me that ms3d file. At the moment the bits I've tested seem to work OK.

I think it is supposed to work just on the lighter/darker name, so having multiple bones due to merging shouldn't be a problem.

The to Blender/Max and back function doesn't use any of the ms3d buttons.
https://wiki.twcenter.net/index.php?...nts_in_Blender
Instructions are written for Blender as we don't have a copy of Max... but xHolyCrusader has tested in max.
I did open the whole .world you sent in Blender earlier - it will open as one file, which you might find useful!

The saving/adjusting shading system in Blender/Max uses 'vertex coloring'. In Blender you can only view/edit that on one group at a time.

In Blender you can select multiple groups in 'Object Mode' and then go into 'Edit Mode' for all of them - which gives you the ability to select/change verts across multiple groups at least for positional stuff. (I can only get the coloring/weighting to work for one group at a time though)

[Sauron puppet of Saruman]

Thanks for the info - I will muster the courage to switch to Blender/3ds on the next settlement I do.

Spent the day properly assigning vertex colours, and I've noticed that none of the other models have that problem (of the original ms3d not going into IWTE properly and ending up dark). Anyhow, I've attached the model I had trouble with in case you want to examine it yourself. Probably an oversight on my end.

Mesh File:
carn_dum_complex_24 f carn_dum connector.zip

P.s. As an aside, would you happen to know what files are needed to bring in a new sound as an effect through the 'collision effects' in IWTE? Have made successful visual effects before; just that new sounds are mute when loaded up in game. Been playing around with descr_campfires_brasiers for the effect_set, descr_structure_effects for effect (I gather effect_set and effect can be done in a number of files), descr_sounds_generic for the event, a .evt file in the sounds/effect_evt made using notepad++, and of course the actual .wave file inside the /sounds folder.

Thanks!

[AnthoniusII]

Question: _Tartaros_ tried to import new houses types and new textures. He put all techtree buildings under the name "roman" in a separated folder.
The result was that all those buildings (greek=southern european for game) were not in the battle model of the settlement.
When i renamed that folder. I saw these pictures.



What you see in new textures was missing when techtree buildings were in their own folder named "roman" before building's name.
What you see in vanilla textures were replaced by new houses models but the settlement looked empty.
Question inorder to re-texture all vanilla buildings in "roman" aka byzantine style what should i do?
Find all buildings one by one?
Retexture them and place them in southern_european folder (we have another set of textures for that culture different from byzantine).
In any case all buildings (random and techtree folder of them ) should be inside each culture's settlements folder?

[Sauron puppet of Saruman]

AnthoniusII,

You would have to first find the texture files of the texture you want (I presume byzantine?)
To my knowledge, there's several ways from there.

Copy the textures you want and put them in the main blockset/textures folder, but with a unique name. You could then try edit the .world file for the settlements and go to "Structures" tab -> find the texture names which reference the vanilla ones, and rename them to the name of the new texture (using "change texture info")
This way should mean those modified techtree buildings will always display the Roman texture you want.

Alternatively, you could copy the textures into a faction or culture specific folder. Either blockset/textures/variations/<culture_name> or blockset/textures/faction_variations/<faction_name>.

No need to assign textures to the models individually, but you just need to get it pointing to the proper texture. There are only 4-5 normally used in vanilla techtree buildings.