Lost campaign in 2 turns

[Qis]

LOL I'm not even joking...

My friend and I talk on Skype and play the campaign together (not the same campaign, but we play separately as the same faction and talk and joke about what is happening). Well we've been playing M2TW but I decided to try Rome again and found this mod and it seems awesome, and I'm impressed with the enemy AI...

But literally in my first campaign playing as Numidia on VH/VH with "Sinuhet's_AI_Battle_Formations_Mod" installed... I lost in 2 turns.

On my second turn, Carthage betrayed me, sacked my capital and destroyed my army along with it. The other half of my army, which was preparing to besiege the rebel settlement to the west, was awaiting reinforcements from my only remaining city (and now new capital) when Carthage intercepted that reinforcing army and destroyed them. Then I tried besieging the rebel settlement without reinforcements and died, maybe because they had a unit of elephants in round 4? Then Carthage besieged my only remaining city, and in the next turn they offered me a deal to become protectorate... I accepted of course thinking "oh this isn't so bad I guess"... yet as soon as I accepted (yes in the very same turn) they betrayed me and killed my only remaining army and also took my city... I think it was ~6 turns total when I got the shameful message that I was defeated and my only option was to "return to the main menu"... But after turn 2 my capital was lost and my armies defeated, so I knew I couldn't come back anyways... Oh and to top it off, my cities were making negative money per round and by the 3rd round I was in a negative which continued that way until my death.

So, I guess what I'm trying to say is... "WHAT THE " . . .

HAHAHA awesome mod, I've never met such a challenging AI before in my life (except maybe 'Deep Blue' Chess computer) although I think Carthage in RTR beats Deep Blue.

Thanks, looking forwards to some explanation and comforting.

[kepper]

Never play RTW in VH/VH, the AI go crazy, and attack you it no mercy, and it a crazy bonus in there units.
Next time pick the Celtiberian more time to relax and expand before get attack. And it M/M.

[Qis]

Never play RTW in VH/VH, the AI go crazy, and attack you it no mercy, and it a crazy bonus in there units.
Next time pick the Celtiberian more time to relax and expand before get attack. And it M/M.

No, I like a challenge, but that wasn't even a challenge, that was just a massacre. No amount of skill or knowledge could have prevented that.

I think there is a major bug with either this mod or with "Sinuhet's_AI_Battle_Formations_Mod" (or both mods)...

I've had a couple of random CTD (crash to desktop)... my friend had a bug where he couldn't right click units in barracks and view their stats... And when I double-right click (to charge) with multiple-selected units (in a group with each other) then only one unit charges, the other does nothing at all as if I didn't have him highlighted (but I do obviously).

And I sent all of my troops in to charge and storm the center of the city, but rather than charge all the way to the center, they stopped at about half way and turned around and started walking out of the city for no reason, and they weren't white-flagged and retreating either, they were still in combat and not taking casualties. No matter how hard I tried to make them turn and rush the center of the city, they refused...

Could it be because I'm trying to play with 260 unit size? (huge) Or what ??

I really am tired of all of these mods I've downloaded and none of them work properly, I don't know why, I install them properly but then I run into so many errors. But these mods look so cool and could be so much fun, I just wish I could fix whatever the problem is... I really like RTR... please help.

Thanks

[kepper]

You have last version FOE 1.3?

[Qis]

You have last version FOE 1.3?

FOE? I'm using Rome Total Realism (RTR) Platinum Edition, the latest downloaded from their official website.

Oh, Fate of Empires, I see your sig now... no I don't have that... Is it better than RTR? I like how difficult RTR is but I'm worried if there's some bug... Units don't seem to respond like I'm used to.... they are acting strangely.

[kepper]

Sorry, i as under the impression you are playing FOE 1.3.
If you what a challenge, play FOE in M/M and you gone see.

[Qis]

Sorry, i as under the impression you are playing FOE 1.3.
If you what a challenge, play FOE in M/M and you gone see.

Have you played Rome Total Realism (RTR)? If not, then it is highly improbable that you can make an unbiased and accurate comparison between the two. My friend and I have never had such a tough campaign nor have we ever fought such powerful AI as in RTR with the "Sinuhet's_AI_Battle_Formations_Mod" but I'm just curious if it is full of bugs or if it is just RTW itself that sucks compared to M2TW which I'm used to now, with charging actually working and not stopping and running away like girls I don't understand what my units are doing sometimes, they don't seem to respond to any of my commands.

[edit] Nevermind what I said about you and RTR, I just realized FOE is an expansion of RTR...

[Pat89]

Sorry, i as under the impression you are playing FOE 1.3.
If you what a challenge, play FOE in M/M and you gone see.

Or try Numidia again on VH/VH

Have you played Rome Total Realism (RTR)? If not, then it is highly improbable that you can make an unbiased and accurate comparison between the two. My friend and I have never had such a tough campaign nor have we ever fought such powerful AI as in RTR with the "Sinuhet's_AI_Battle_Formations_Mod" but I'm just curious if it is full of bugs or if it is just RTW itself that sucks compared to M2TW which I'm used to now, with charging actually working and not stopping and running away like girls I don't understand what my units are doing sometimes, they don't seem to respond to any of my commands.

[edit] Nevermind what I said about you and RTR, I just realized FOE is an expansion of RTR...

RTR VII: Fate of Empires (in short FoE or FOE) is the latest version of RTR. It's not really an expansion to previous versions, but instead a completely new mod made from scratch. Compared to Platinum (which is a great mod too - I've played it a lot myself) I think FoE is probably more difficult. So if you're really in for a challange, try Numidia in FoE on VH/VH.

Here's some more general info about FoE I gathered:
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RTR VII - Fate of Empires (FoE) is a mod set in the Western Mediterranean during the era of the Punic Wars. As a team, we have worked hard to introduce new gameplay challenges, especially at the strategic level, without compromising the open-ended campaign feel. The player will have to master new ways of settlement integration, economic development and expansion and, additionally, face tough challenges in the form of financial crises and hostile invasions, which will occur throughout the entire period covered by the mod.
----------

And the "feeling" of M2 battles, is very different to that in RTW. At times there are long discussions about which one should be the better, but I think it's all a matter of personal taste. And ones you're used to them, I think both styles will be ok to you.

[Qis]

Or try Numidia again on VH/VH


RTR VII: Fate of Empires (in short FoE or FOE) is the latest version of RTR. It's not really an expansion to previous versions, but instead a completely new mod made from scratch. Compared to Platinum (which is a great mod too - I've played it a lot myself) I think FoE is probably more difficult. So if you're really in for a challange, try Numidia in FoE on VH/VH.

Here's some more general info about FoE I gathered:
----------
RTR VII - Fate of Empires (FoE) is a mod set in the Western Mediterranean during the era of the Punic Wars. As a team, we have worked hard to introduce new gameplay challenges, especially at the strategic level, without compromising the open-ended campaign feel. The player will have to master new ways of settlement integration, economic development and expansion and, additionally, face tough challenges in the form of financial crises and hostile invasions, which will occur throughout the entire period covered by the mod.
----------

And the "feeling" of M2 battles, is very different to that in RTW. At times there are long discussions about which one should be the better, but I think it's all a matter of personal taste. And ones you're used to them, I think both styles will be ok to you.

Thanks for the nice reply. I have already installed RTR Platinum along with the Extended Realism mod (which I followed instructions to make it compatible without BI expansion).

I think these mods have completely written over my Vanilla RTW so I don't think I can play any other mods now. My friend and I are struggling to survive as Numidia on VH/VH with the advanced UI formation mod in RTR, I don't think it is possible to be honest... I get my capital sacked in under 6 turns every time... He is doing better than me but he plays his turns SLOOOOWWW and I think he is going to get owned soon too.

Is it possible to install FoE without messing up RTR? I think, as I mentioned, Vanilla is gone for me, so I don't know.

[Alavaria]

Compared to Platinum (which is a great mod too - I've played it a lot myself) I think FoE is probably more difficult. So if you're really in for a challange, try Numidia in FoE on VH/VH.

Oh I did that!
Bum-rushed Carthage with some Numidian Infantry and a bunch of slingers and kicked them outta Africa in no time.

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Then I tried besieging the rebel settlement without reinforcements and died, maybe because they had a unit of elephants in round 4?

That rebel settlement starts off with its elephants at the very start.

No, I like a challenge, but that wasn't even a challenge, that was just a massacre. No amount of skill or knowledge could have prevented that.

Oh, NOW you've done it. Hmm, what did you use? Platinum + the AI formations? What version of ExRM?

I haven't played Platinum in some time.. OOOHHH, I see. In plat, there are these mercenaries, like half a stack worth. Carthage grabs these mercs, that's how they get such a huge army together. I suspect you can get around this problem with clever use of forts ... if the AI hires the mercs with a character near Carthago, and you block the ways over - allowing you to grab the two settlements south of the river.

Specifically, you block the ways from Carthago going south. The two settlements south of there have a family member each inside, so siege them both (so they can't get out and grab mercs). Of course you have to blatantly begin forting up stuff in Carthage's land before declaring war.

Grab those two settlements and enslave - so your population increases in the starting settlements. Continually spam tons of infantry (desert warriors as linemen, and a swarm of javelinmen to do flank missile attacks and just ... swarm [they're cheap, no worries]). Then probably try to get the enemy to attack you on a bridge. Have lots of javelinmen and one unit of archers (for fire arrows) and pound them.

BTW, the Javelin guys are awesome as garrison and missile troops. Compared to the cost of slingers (~140 for 120), you can get more (~72 for 240). Something like 4x the men. And they have 10 attack (5 for slinger). So spam spam spam, heh.

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This is an interesting challenge. Better than the FOE one, where, like I thought, it's possible to start stomping people with Epirot's starting armies (Italy & Sicily). Of course, I used forts to basically "trap" the Carthaginian stack, allowing me to take Libybaeum (though I can't hold it). And I haven't even really gotten far in massing slingers in FOE yet..

And I sent all of my troops in to charge and storm the center of the city, but rather than charge all the way to the center, they stopped at about half way and turned around and started walking out of the city for no reason, and they weren't white-flagged and retreating either, they were still in combat and not taking casualties. No matter how hard I tried to make them turn and rush the center of the city, they refused...

Could it be because I'm trying to play with 260 unit size? (huge) Or what ??

Yeah, basically what happens is the unit is screwed up and has people stuck on the outer parts of the town, the whole unit is spread out along the road, and it is trying to "reform" into a proper rectangle formation.

Particularly obvious when they're in defensive formation, but regardless, the engine hates it when formations are messed up. It is rather bad on huge formations, as they get tangled up on one another in places like narrow streets very easily.

[Qis]

Oh I did that!
Bum-rushed Carthage with some Numidian Infantry and a bunch of slingers and kicked them outta Africa in no time.

----------------------------------------------------------

That rebel settlement starts off with its elephants at the very start.

Oh, NOW you've done it. Hmm, what did you use? Platinum + the AI formations? What version of ExRM?

I haven't played Platinum in some time.. OOOHHH, I see. In plat, there are these mercenaries, like half a stack worth. Carthage grabs these mercs, that's how they get such a huge army together. I suspect you can get around this problem with clever use of forts ... if the AI hires the mercs with a character near Carthago, and you block the ways over - allowing you to grab the two settlements south of the river.

Specifically, you block the ways from Carthago going south. The two settlements south of there have a family member each inside, so siege them both (so they can't get out and grab mercs). Of course you have to blatantly begin forting up stuff in Carthage's land before declaring war.

Grab those two settlements and enslave - so your population increases in the starting settlements. Continually spam tons of infantry (desert warriors as linemen, and a swarm of javelinmen to do flank missile attacks and just ... swarm [they're cheap, no worries]). Then probably try to get the enemy to attack you on a bridge. Have lots of javelinmen and one unit of archers (for fire arrows) and pound them.

BTW, the Javelin guys are awesome as garrison and missile troops. Compared to the cost of slingers (~140 for 120), you can get more (~72 for 240). Something like 4x the men. And they have 10 attack (5 for slinger). So spam spam spam, heh.

----------------------------------------------------------

This is an interesting challenge. Better than the FOE one, where, like I thought, it's possible to start stomping people with Epirot's starting armies (Italy & Sicily). Of course, I used forts to basically "trap" the Carthaginian stack, allowing me to take Libybaeum (though I can't hold it). And I haven't even really gotten far in massing slingers in FOE yet..

Yeah, basically what happens is the unit is screwed up and has people stuck on the outer parts of the town, the whole unit is spread out along the road, and it is trying to "reform" into a proper rectangle formation.

Particularly obvious when they're in defensive formation, but regardless, the engine hates it when formations are messed up. It is rather bad on huge formations, as they get tangled up on one another in places like narrow streets very easily.

Thanks a lot for the great reply.

I thought that may have been the case in taking over a town. I guess the only way to prevent it is to lose some men by taking longer to let them regroup at the gate and then march them slowly through the streets unit-by-unit.

As far as your suggested strategy... I don't know how well a swarm tactic would work because by the 2nd or 3rd round I am in a downwards spiral of negative income. The only way to alleviate this would be to capture some rebel settlements, but then that would require having an army large enough to do so, which in turn allows Carthage to easily overrun my weaker forces back home. And I would still be in debt after capturing the settlement... The one southeast of the Numidian capital only offered 3 denarii for capturing it, lol. I'll try to make this swarm tactic work though, I don't want to give up.

*Numidia in Rome Total Realism (RTR) Platinum Edition version 1.9 combined with "Sinuhet's_AI_Battle_Formations_Mod" (which the download of RTRPE1.9 includes in its optional mods folder) has to be the hardest campaign experience I've ever had in any of the TW games or mods.




Well done, RTR team! - From America

[Arkaeyn]

RTR Platinum/ExRM has a front-loaded difficulty. Its economy is such that the first 40-50 turns are almost always difficult, especially if you switch the strategic AI to Hard or Very Hard. On those difficulty levels, the AI pretty much instantly declares war on the human anytime they share a border, and throws all its troops and resources against the player.

If the player survives those first few turns, however, the strategic weakness of the AI combined with the difficulty in tweaking the economy almost always means that the game turns much easier.

FOE's economic system helps balance out the difficulty, so that it's a little bit easier at the start, but significantly harder as the game goes on.

[Qis]

RTR Platinum/ExRM has a front-loaded difficulty. Its economy is such that the first 40-50 turns are almost always difficult, especially if you switch the strategic AI to Hard or Very Hard. On those difficulty levels, the AI pretty much instantly declares war on the human anytime they share a border, and throws all its troops and resources against the player.

If the player survives those first few turns, however, the strategic weakness of the AI combined with the difficulty in tweaking the economy almost always means that the game turns much easier.

FOE's economic system helps balance out the difficulty, so that it's a little bit easier at the start, but significantly harder as the game goes on.

That sounds interesting. But is there a way to install FoE without ruining my current installation of PE+ExRM?

And is there any way to restore Vanilla to its original 1.5 state without reinstalling the whole game again?

[Pat89]

That sounds interesting. But is there a way to install FoE without ruining my current installation of PE+ExRM?

And is there any way to restore Vanilla to its original 1.5 state without reinstalling the whole game again?

So you don't have the Barbarian Invasion expansion pack? I'm afraid it then isn't possible to play FoE...

[Arkaeyn]

FOE is modfoldered, so yes. Installing it won't break anything else in the game.

Are you playing on 1.5? That might be the cause of some of your crashes - BI should be at 1.6.

[Alavaria]

Where's the issue, is it just the slavs? Or are there other BI functions in it?

[Chicken]

Where's the issue, is it just the slavs? Or are there other BI functions in it?

the macedon horde?

[Pat89]

Where's the issue, is it just the slavs? Or are there other BI functions in it?

- slavs/macedonian horde
- BI battlemap unit abilities
- religion

I think that's more or less it, but it's a lot of work to remove all that...

[AtlasGR]

I only play VH/VH. It isn't difficult if you exploit the AI's blunders.

[Alavaria]

Yes, you can pull off some ridiculous stuff if you know how to make use of the AI. This fort abuse will probably be able to stop Carthage in the case of VH/VH Numidia.

An example would be this one full Carthaginian stack on Sicily (The one headed by Mago). Danced around it, and it lost both the main settlements. As you can see in the image, I can easily take Liby (which I do the next turn). However, I took both the major settlements before, but lost them due to revolt, lawl.






Due to how Panormus is blocking the coast, I was hoping to siege that settlement from the right, and that the AI would put Mago on the left (can't get past). I would then kill the whole stack via the wall towers. Sadly, it didn't happen, and since Panormus is safely under my control, it's no go.

EDIT: OOh, I didn't realize the AI broke bits off its full stack for some reason. That makes it easier if the armies stay apart.

My friend and I are struggling to survive as Numidia on VH/VH with the advanced UI formation mod in RTR, I don't think it is possible to be honest... I get my capital sacked in under 6 turns every time...

I PMed you. This will make for some fun, and a lot of javelin & desert warrior spamming.