Can't get trebuchets to work in defending..

[Lamias]

I have searched in many threads about ways to destroy enemy siege towers.. I gather that one of the ways to destroy them is using trebuchets from inside.. The thing is, i cannot do it right.. Actually i can't do it at all

When i try to position the trebuchets in battle deployment, they fit nowhere.. They are limited in the square or in some open ground in my castle too far away from the gate. So my only option is to place them far, and then order them to move when the battle starts. Unfortunately that gives enough time for the towers to come and unload the troops.. This is one of the things i hate in M2TW: the fact that in sieges, the defender's troop movement is greatly limited by houses, small streets etc..

Is there any way to fix this? Or perhaps am i doing something wrong..?

thanks!!

[django333]

I would say not being able to use trebuchets inside a city against a sieging army is pretty accurate. These were huge machines that took up alot of space and you can pretty much double the area needed for the swinging motion when projectiles are launched. Trebuchets were used for knocking down walls not defending them.

Having said that. The best way to take down siege towers is with archers on your walls using flaming arrows. It's not a sure bet that you will destroy the tower every time (just as in real warfare) but alot of times two units of archers can burn down a tower before it reaches your walls.

[Abyrvalg]

Trebuchets were used for knocking down walls not defending them.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Well, actually trebuchets were used to defend walls. Some settlements had special towers with trebuchet platforms to counter besieger's siege engines.
Trebuchets were no less than medieval artillery.

[Stephan de St. Omer]

In addition to what the others already said, I always put one or two units of pikemen directly behind my gates. If I am lucky and destroy towers and/or drive back the enemy forces on my walls with heavy infantry, all enemy forces often try to maove through the gate, where my pikemen mostly do an excellent job especially against the charging enemy generals which often breaks the whole attacking army. I usually back the pikemen with three other infantry units and most of the time these unit s hold their line.

Considerign the in-city use of trebuchets and mangonels I oftne tried, but sof the time I either do not get them place advantageous or they kill all my men. I once had a mangonel in my city and was extremely happy to having been able to put it directly behind my gates a little way back. But they roasted my forces on top of the gate quite impressively! BUt if they succeeed in shooting over the gate, the mangonels wreack havon on the enemy usually standing in line in front of the gate. It is a vabanque as always in warfare!

Kritic Stephan

[Lamias]

And what about the archers positioned on the walls? I always found them not as effective as one would think..

I have played custom battles to do some tests.. I am defending a castle and i usually put some archers on the walls. When the enemy gets into their range, only about half of them seem to fire their missiles straight to the enemy, with the other half either firing high (with little accuracy) or not firing at all..

Not to mention that, when the masses of the enemy reach my gates and wait for the ram to break in, the archers don't fire to them at all..

So my questions are:
1) How is it best to position the archers on the walls in order to achieve maximum accuracy and damage for their shots? Should i spread them in 2 rows on the wall, or have them in a tight formation with 5 rows so that more archers can go on the walls?

2) Do archers (and crossbowmen) have some sort of "minimum range" so when the enemy moves past it, they are not able to shoot at him?

[Lamias]

ok that is good to know..!

[QUOTE=Lamias;6571351]1) How is it best to position the archers on the walls in order to achieve maximum accuracy and damage for their shots? Should i spread them in 2 rows on the wall, or have them in a tight formation with 5 rows so that more archers can go on the walls?


any word on that dilemma?

[Vaz]

Cavalry Charging out against the infantry, and then have some cheap militia move in and melee it.

[django333]

Thats pretty risky. Alot of times if you open those gates enemy infantry are going to get in. Plus you are throwing away two units.

[Lamias]

Cavalry Charging out against the infantry, and then have some cheap militia move in and melee it.

and the rest of their army is just watching me while i destroy their way into the castle?

[Vaz]

Yes. Usually.

[Lamias]

Wow if that's the case then i m all fond of that!!

doesn't that seem like an exploit though..?

[Cooltosha]

Best thing to do is to upgrade your cities/castles quickly to at least ballista tower degree, which is Large City/Fortress. Ballista towers tend to fire big projectiles, that kill an armored knight easily, but they are sweet against towers, because when they are fired against towers, they are In Flames (hehe, death melodic metal ftw). Also, if possible, which is, if you have access to gunpowder (I believe it's sometimes about 1240's or a bit later, but certainly it will be generally available at 1280-1290) then you might upgrade your ballista towers to canon towers. The degree of development is logical, Huge City (Metropolis)/Citadel. Canon towers are able to destroy a siege tower with one single well-aimed shot. Ballista towers are second best, though their flaming projectiles do 1% damage per shot. However, a well-aimed ballista tower shot can set entire siege tower aflame, which best when they are at your walls, and enemies are climbing up them. Why, you may ask? Simple, the dumb s keep on climbing a burning tower, and when it crumbles down it kills them all. Therefore, it may kill up to 50% of a company, and send them into rout. Finally, ballista/canon towers are perfect against siege rams and other siege weaponry, such as trebuchets/canons (Turkish monster canons are exception to this because of their sick range). Trebuchets always get inside a ballista tower range, while canons always get inside a canon tower range. However, clever positioning of siege weapons by AI (may happen, especially on very hard difficulty and with boosted battle AI available in some submods) may keep them out of range or well protected by some cheap spearmen, so while your towers are wasting their time against spearmen, peasants or spear militias, AI trebuchets/canons will bring down your walls. This happens due to you not being able to control your towers. That's how the game is made........it's a big mistake for CA.

[Galain_Ironhide]

Wow if that's the case then i m all fond of that!!

doesn't that seem like an exploit though..?

We all play the game how its meant to be around here.

[django333]

In all my experiences defending in this game, if you open those gates then the whole besieging army rushes towards them. So I doubt sending a couple units out to destroy a tower would work.

[sbroadbent]

In all my experiences defending in this game, if you open those gates then the whole besieging army rushes towards them. So I doubt sending a couple units out to destroy a tower would work.

In my current 6.2 VH/VH game, I was able to send my general (faction leader no less) out the main gate, disrupt their siege ladders, and cause some hassle for their siege towers all with the rest of the troops not doing anything unless I targetted them specifically. I did manage to wipe out their light infantry, missile troops, and their captain (no family member or other general in the sieging army), and ultimately when they did finally break down the gates with the ram (spearmen, not going to touch those with cavalry) they got spanked by my glorious Pilgrims and Religious Fanatics!

So long as you get your troops out quickly and none of the soldiers get stuck on the other side of the wall, the AI won't be able to get inside the gates, and from my experience they don't try to rush the gates.

I had another siege battle where the AI was obsessed with getting all their troops up the single set of ladders that I could draw my cavalry out the near gates, and charge at the unprotected backs of the mass of soldiers that never bothered to fight back.

The AI isn't perfect and there are a few glitches that the player can take advantage of.

[Vaz]

In all my experiences defending in this game, if you open those gates then the whole besieging army rushes towards them. So I doubt sending a couple units out to destroy a tower would work.

Side gate. Either way, they don't use Siege Towers. I'd double check by stacking 2H/Sword and Shield Infantry with Phalanx/Spear Wall Pikemen.

[Enomine]

What I do to defend my cities is stick at least 1 mangonel in them. Let the enemy into the gates (after whittling him down with archers from the wall of course) and then funnel his army into a narrow street with spearmen or another good defensive unit at the end. When his men are bunched up tight in the street I open fire with the mangonel, situated just behind the spearmen. One shot is often enough to rout whatever it hits, and when they are so tightly packed into the street it's not uncommon to get 300-500 kills (probably a bit exaggerated, but it inflicts a LOT of casualties) in one well aimed blast. Feels just a tad bit cheap though. Also works wonders on bridges.

[hpsauce13]

What I do to defend my cities is stick at least 1 mangonel in them. Let the enemy into the gates (after whittling him down with archers from the wall of course) and then funnel his army into a narrow street with spearmen or another good defensive unit at the end. When his men are bunched up tight in the street I open fire with the mangonel, situated just behind the spearmen. One shot is often enough to rout whatever it hits, and when they are so tightly packed into the street it's not uncommon to get 300-500 kills (probably a bit exaggerated, but it inflicts a LOT of casualties) in one well aimed blast. Feels just a tad bit cheap though. Also works wonders on bridges.

Whe i was defending jerusalem from a jihad as KoJ i managed to get 3 mangonels in position so they could fire over the 'huge walls' usually they destroyed about 30% of the armies ( made of about 1800 men) and destroy a siege tower sometimes. then when they actually broke through the gates, i gave them a bit of space, repositioned my mangonels and finished off the rest of them. this killed a few of my men, but gave me some brillian screenshots. without them i doubt i would have been able to fend off 5 consecutive jihading armies.

1) How is it best to position the archers on the walls in order to achieve maximum accuracy and damage for their shots? Should i spread them in 2 rows on the wall, or have them in a tight formation with 5 rows so that more archers can go on the walls?


any word on that dilemma?

i usually find that the first row(probably be second as well, cant remember) is the only effective row, because it fires directly at the enemy, whilst the rows behind fire in huge arches that take all the power out, so i put them 2 rows spread out. (but if you have LOADS of archers shove them all on, can't hurt.

[JorisofHolland]

2) When the enemy attacks they'll quit firing, but no other limit. But the enemy may be hiding inside the gatehouse, which ensures they are safe from arrows.

[Lamias]

2) When the enemy attacks they'll quit firing, but no other limit. But the enemy may be hiding inside the gatehouse, which ensures they are safe from arrows.

I thought so too.. But I tried some tests with my archers behind walls, and they stopped firing when the enemy's ladders came close to the walls. Not when they attached the ladders to the wall, but when they got close to the wall... Why is this happening..?