Make correct lances, please.....

In this picture we can clearly see lancer units bearing their lances. And the lances are still historically incorrect (like in Empire Total War).

Lances according to the CA:

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Can somebody explain me why the in-game lancers' lances have a crossbar below the spike? Not only is it incorrect (I have never seen source depicting this kind of weapon), but also illogical (Fighting with crossbar-lance must be difficult - you must avoid catching on your mates).

In the history, the lance didn't have any crossbar... In my opinion in game it should rather have a pennon below the spike as it is depicted in some historical sources (paintings etc.).

Lances in the history:

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CA have said that they have changed the model of the lances a few month ago. These pictures are quite old, we are expecting new screens with the new model... For the moment nobody has seen it yet. Be patient...

"Can somebody explain me why the in-game lancers' lances have a crossbar below the spike? Not only is it incorrect (I have never seen source depicting this kind of weapon), but also illogical (Fighting with crossbar-lance must be difficult - you must avoid catching on your mates)."

Actually, a spear with a cross-bar is used when hunting bear or pig (also by the tigreros in S. America), but usually only when afoot (they are too front-heavy, due to the cross-bar, to be easily used on horse-back). In Robert Louis Stevenson's novel The Black Arrow, one of the outlaws is said to be carrying a boar spear, which would probably be of that type. I don't know where CA got the idea that European cavalry ever used something like that, but I have a vague memory (possibly wrong) of a description of some Sudanese cavalry using such lances (in Churchill's The River War, I think).

Originally Posted by IAB1789

"Can somebody explain me why the in-game lancers' lances have a crossbar below the spike? Not only is it incorrect (I have never seen source depicting this kind of weapon), but also illogical (Fighting with crossbar-lance must be difficult - you must avoid catching on your mates)."

Actually, a spear with a cross-bar is used when hunting bear or pig (also by the tigreros in S. America), but usually only when afoot (they are too front-heavy, due to the cross-bar, to be easily used on horse-back). In Robert Louis Stevenson's novel The Black Arrow, one of the outlaws is said to be carrying a boar spear, which would probably be of that type. I don't know where CA got the idea that European cavalry ever used something like that, but I have a vague memory (possibly wrong) of a description of some Sudanese cavalry using such lances (in Churchill's The River War, I think).

It's a spontoon.

Why did CA arm their lancer cavalry with spontoons? The colour guard in ETW doesn't carry them (might have been a nice touch if they had; could be modded, I suppose). It makes even less sense to put them on horseback. Same sort of silliness as the fatigue caps for the drummer boys.

Yep, panzerchreck, Jack told us a while ago that those models will change, just hasn't got around to it, he's probably done it by now so if any new screenshots come out, we'll see!

THIS IS A GAME BREAKING PROBLEM!

Originally Posted by Cozur

THIS IS A GAME BREAKING PROBLEM!

Stop taking the mic
These little errors can be irritating to some players don't you know. I myself would prefer it if these minor details were correct, it helps make up for the AI's flaws

I can't see any of the pictures of the historical lances.

Why does CA use Spontoons as lances anyways?

Wouldn't a crossbar prevent piercing the target?

That's no good right? , or is it so that you can repeatedly stab without getting the lance stuck?

Originally Posted by Greve Af Göteborg

Wouldn't a crossbar prevent piercing the target?

That's no good right? , or is it so that you can repeatedly stab without getting the lance stuck?

Once the lancers made an initial impact, they would draw swords and forget the lance, so it didn't matter about it going through or not.

Originally Posted by EmperorBatman999

Once the lancers made an initial impact, they would draw swords and forget the lance, so it didn't matter about it going through or not.

For a full on scrap this makes sense, because the once the enemy was past the point anyway, then the lance only got in the way. But what about pursuit, the endless running down of a fugitive army. The lance is a good weapon for this, I suppose when in pursuit the lance can be controlled with a short thrust.

I have also read that the penant could be rolled and bound up tight for combat, and this in it'self would help prevent penetration of the lance being deeper than what one required.

Originally Posted by Greve Af Göteborg

Wouldn't a crossbar prevent piercing the target?

Thats actually the point (no pun intended )

The main problem for lancers was the fact that if they were not careful and controlled the speed on their mount and the depth of their thrust the head of the lance could be driven so far into the victim that it was impossible to withdraw, and ultimately the lancer sufferred a broken wrist, dislocated shoulder, or in extreme cases was catapulted over the head of his horse, or shot out of the saddle over its rump.

During training lancers were taught to approach their victims at a controlled canter and when within range to thrust the lance point no more than a few inches into the target by extending their arm, and then to withdraw it rapidly before the weight of the body could drag them down with it.

However, this proved hard to perfect and many lancers suffered wrist and shoulder injuries during training as a result of getting it wrong. As an aid to avoid disasters some models of the French lance were fitted with a large ball shaped block just below the blade which was designed to stop the head of the lance penetraing the victim too far.

It was shaped like a ball rather than a 'T-piece' or a flat disc simply because a 'T-Piece' would be just as likely to get snagged in the body as the blade, and a flat disk if pressed with force against a wound could actually be held in place by suction. The ball was found to be the best shape to stop penetration and allow the blade to be withdrawn quickly.

At Waterloo for example the attack of Jaquinot's lancers was made by a single unbroken line of lance armed men who literally advanced into the action at the trot herding the British cavalry ahead of them by constantly thrusting their lance points into the nearest to keep them at bay. Some bodies were found to have over ten seperate lance wounds before they actually fell from their horses.

Only the front ranks of a lancer regiment used their lances, for obvious reasons, the vast majority used their swords.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Originally Posted by Didz

Thats actually the point (no pun intended )

The main problem for lancers was the fact that if they were not careful and controlled the speed on their mount and the depth of their thrust the head of the lance could be driven so far into the victim that it was impossible to withdraw, and ultimately the lancer sufferred a broken wrist, dislocated shoulder, or in extreme cases was catapulted over the head of his horse, or shot out of the saddle over its rump.

During training lancers were taught to approach their victims at a controlled canter and when within range to thrust the lance point no more than a few inches into the target by extending their arm, and then to withdraw it rapidly before the weight of the body could drag them down with it.

However, this proved hard to perfect and many lancers suffered wrist and shoulder injuries during training as a result of getting it wrong. As an aid to avoid disasters some models of the French lance were fitted with a large ball shaped block just below the blade which was designed to stop the head of the lance penetraing the victim too far.

It was shaped like a ball rather than a 'T-piece' or a flat disc simply because a 'T-Piece' would be just as likely to get snagged in the body as the blade, and a flat disk if pressed with force against a wound could actually be held in place by suction. The ball was found to be the best shape to stop penetration and allow the blade to be withdrawn quickly.

At Waterloo for example the attack of Jaquinot's lancers was made by a single unbroken line of lance armed men who literally advanced into the action at the trot herding the British cavalry ahead of them by constantly thrusting their lance points into the nearest to keep them at bay. Some bodies were found to have over ten seperate lance wounds before they actually fell from their horses.

Only the front ranks of a lancer regiment used their lances, for obvious reasons, the vast majority used their swords.

That makes sense, dislocating your shoulder in the initial charge would make you a sitting duck as you wouldn't be able to defend yourself.

Ca should implement the ball shaped one and perhaps even make it so that only the front ranks uses the lances.

The lance in this picture would be perfect

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I watched the movie "Waterloo" today and they had this awesome scene
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vlcuvrM1po
Near the end you can see the french lancers pursue the grey scots, and the lances has those flags as mentioned earlier and it would seem they don't have a crossbar.
watch the clip, it's worth it.

Originally Posted by Greve Af Göteborg

I watched the movie "Waterloo" today and they had this awesome scene
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vlcuvrM1po
Near the end you can see the french lancers pursue the grey scots, and the lances has those flags as mentioned earlier and it would seem they don't have a crossbar.
watch the clip, it's worth it.

The clip has a lot of good referances for CA (how marching bands should look/sound, proper uniforms, proper lancers etc.), too bad they don't seem to be used.
A few hours of watching and analyzing that could appease a good portion of their fanbase. Doesn't seem hard at all.

Those lancers were cool!

I did notice two spontoons there carried by some infantry, however the lances carred by the french cavalry there seem to be very spear-like. Lancer cavalry in NTW should definitely have lances, like the ones carried in that movie I suppose.

Greve Af Göteborg are you from Göteborg? If so, awesome, so am I!

Originally Posted by The_Nord

Those lancers were cool!

I did notice two spontoons there carried by some infantry, however the lances carred by the french cavalry there seem to be very spear-like. Lancer cavalry in NTW should definitely have lances, like the ones carried in that movie I suppose.

Greve Af Göteborg are you from Göteborg? If so, awesome, so am I!

I've had that question lots of times, no i'm not from Göteborg.
I only picked it because Göteborg is awesome i'm from Motala.

And yes, the ideal lancer would be the ones seen in the clip.

I think the lancers look pretty good.

Originally Posted by Abspara

I think the lancers look pretty good.

i totally agree
i wouldnt like a flag on the top of every lance of the 45 soldiers...