How Do You Use Shock Infantry Effectively????

[hpsauce13]

Ive been playing Medieval 2 for a long time now and still haven't found an effective use for heavy shock infantry large attack values, and defence values lower than normal heavy infantry.

When i try to use them they just charge in, never really kill as many men as i would expect from their charge value, and then die quicker than the rest of my battle line (ok they do take out more enemy than others)
This isnt very useful because they always end up being the units that need the most retraining on a campaign, but often (because they're usually unique to each faction) they are hard to retrain.

Add to that the fact that their low defence makes them vulnerable to arrow fire and cavalry charges.

so i was wondering has anyone got a useful way of using shock infantry???

[Anaatti]

Not really sure, but if you first go with some light/heavy infantry and then charge with shock infantry, it might do the job. Or should shock be used first and then with light/heavy infantry to backup them

[cuo]

When I'm defending in a field battle I place them behind spearmen or heavy infantry. When the enemy troops are fighting my first row I flank them with my shock infantry. You could say that I use them as... erm poor mans cavalry.

[Holy winter]

You mean units like Canons of the Holy Sepulcher.
I never use chock infantry in the first line because of the same reasons you told.
But I think they can be useful to attack the flanks and start a rout just like cavalry. (Also they have a bonus when fighting cavalry.)
EDIT: like cuo said.

[hpsauce13]

I agree they could be used like cavalry, to out flank, but why not just use cavalry. cavalry is more mobile has a better charge and units like Canons of the Holy Sepulcher have high upkeep and recruitment costs (almost as much as some cavalry).

[Holy winter]

I agree they could be used like cavalry, to out flank, but why not just use cavalry. cavalry is more mobile has a better charge and units like Canons of the Holy Sepulcher have high upkeep and recruitment costs (almost as much as some cavalry).

Canons of the Holy Sepulcher are expensive because they have a lot of bonuses
Bonus when fighting cavalry, bonus when fighting in woods, excellent moral, powerful charge, very good stamina.

I agree if you don't use those bonuses they are too expensive. But they are legendary.

[hpsauce13]

there must be some way to use them well without losing half the uit each battle, otherwise historically they wouldnt have been used and so wouldnt be in the game

[JorisofHolland]

Use the -_-_-_- formation. The first line (-) composes of spears and heavy infantry, the second (_) of shock infantry. Charge in during combat.Aat best at a place you are winning first, then charge enemy units that are doing well, but are close to the routing unit, this way you can quickly spread the panic and rout 'em all.

[hpsauce13]

Use the -_-_-_- formation. The first line (-) composes of spears and heavy infantry, the second (_) of shock infantry. Charge in during combat.Aat best at a place you are winning first, then charge enemy units that are doing well, but are close to the routing unit, this way you can quickly spread the panic and rout 'em all.

Thanks, i think i'll try it out, do some tests, i suppose you have to charge the shock infantry fairly quickly after the initial engage otherwise you could lose a fair few men.

[Halbard]

Excuse me, but which units classify as shock infantry? muire?

[PerXX]

Excuse me, but which units classify as shock infantry? muire?

Generally hardhitting twohanded troops. I.e. Varangian Guard, Zweihänders and such.

[JorisofHolland]

Generally hardhitting twohanded troops. I.e. Varangian Guard, Zweihänders and such.

Most troops that wield two-handed weapons, axes and maces. Crosbows, Longbows and firearm units too.

[PerXX]

Most troops that wield two-handed weapons, axes and maces. Crosbows, Longbows and firearm units too.

Waitwhat?

Shock troops = units intended to lead the charge, and disrupt enemy formations..

[JorisofHolland]

Waitwhat?

Shock troops = units intended to lead the charge, and disrupt enemy formations..

The better ones (Janissaries, for example) of those are also very capable of charging. But don't let them lead the charge, it doesn't work for Shock Infantry. Hand Gunners are especially skilled in close combat and have high armour, they can serve as Shock Infantry very well.

[Navajo Joe]

hpsauce13,
In my Sicilian Campaign,

1st Line, Italian Spear Miltia, Serjeant Spearman, Andalusian Infantry, Mercenary Spearmen
2nd Line, Dismounted Siclio-Norman Knights

1st Line engages with enemy infantry and takes enemy cavarly charge, as they tire and the enemy, 2nd line moves into battle and first line retreats. Now the killing begins, the enemy are very tired and the heavy infantry take them apart.

I remember one stat was a unit of Knights lost 5 men, killed 170 Spearmen of the enemy!

I use the Hastati/Principes/Triari formation, it worked for the Legions, it works for me.

[Enomine]

hpsauce13,
In my Sicilian Campaign,

1st Line, Italian Spear Miltia, Serjeant Spearman, Andalusian Infantry, Mercenary Spearmen
2nd Line, Dismounted Siclio-Norman Knights

1st Line engages with enemy infantry and takes enemy cavarly charge, as they tire and the enemy, 2nd line moves into battle and first line retreats. Now the killing begins, the enemy are very tired and the heavy infantry take them apart.

I remember one stat was a unit of Knights lost 5 men, killed 170 Spearmen of the enemy!

I use the Hastati/Principes/Triari formation, it worked for the Legions, it works for me.

I have found that this is the best way to use shock inf, when I use them at all. Put them in the second line, wait for your front line of defensive troops to tire the enemy, then send in your fresh shock troops at the tired enemy. It's very very effective; they take minimal losses but inflict many. Normally though I just use defensive infantry, archers for fire arrows and heavy cavalry (although I do make an exception for Zweihänders, those guys are amazing). I tend to stick to factions with good heavy cavalry though. Who needs shock infantry when you can break the entire line with a well timed cavalry charge ?

[JorisofHolland]

My mistake, I should have said some. Shall I edit my post?

[Abyrvalg]

Add to that the fact that their low defence makes them vulnerable to arrow fire and cavalry charges.

You should use shock absorbers. Cheap infantry or infantry with high defensive stats/shieldwall ability.
And avoid archers.

In my recent battle as Norvegian against Teutonic Order I used some cheap low-tier infantry and mercs (hired before battle) to absorb charge of those 'German Panzers', then moved my 2H Huskarls forward. They were quite effective and survived even better than cavalry bodyguards (I lost 2 of 3 generals, I whish in that battle my generals had heavy infantry bodyguards), and killed a lot of knights and infantry.

Later, when I was beseiged, they were quite useful in combination with militia and mercs spearmen in chopping down knights rushing through gates.

In M2 shock infantry could not be used to charge enemy without support, they are not unstoppable terminators, like legioners in RTW, they trade off defense for attack value.
First engage enemy with cheap/defensive unit, then send your shock troops in melee. If you could flank it works even better.

Of course, if you play faction with full access to heavy cavalry and prefer battles in open fields you can forget shock infantry and use them only to defend your key settlements during sieges.

[meese]

Yeah basically I either use them as cavalry for rear charges or in the second line to make a frontal charge against the tired infantry. They're particularly useful for attacking the backs of pikes.

[Titus001]

When battles begins I'm in the double line. Spearmen in front with Swordsman in the back. Try to make the double line a little tighter compared to default. When my spearmen are engaging the enemy front line I leave my swordsman in reserve for 30 seconds or so. All missile fire should be directed at enemy weak areas. After 30 or so seconds are up my swordsman charge. The only swordsman that do not charge with the rest to reinforce spearmen are the ones on the edge.

I select two units of swordsman who keep running straight ahead to set up flank attack. After they get in position they charge and attack the flanks. By this time my cavalry are on the way ready to pull off a pincer maneuver. Shock infantry should be held in reserves for 20-40 seconds to let spearmen deal with cavalry/ front infantry.