View Poll Results: Are the muslim media representatives in your country far to concervative then what who they represent?

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  • I concider myself muslim and the answer is yes.

    3 11.11%
  • I concider myself muslim and the answer is no.

    2 7.41%
  • I concider myself non-muslim and the answer is yes.

    9 33.33%
  • I concider myself non-muslim and the answer is no.

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Thread: Liberal muslims goes on the barricades

  1. #1
    Kjertesvein's Avatar Remember to smile
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    Default Liberal muslims goes on the barricades

    Liberal Muslims in the network LIM believes conservative Muslims have come to dominate the public in Norway. Now they go on the barricades to say that they are not offended by the cartoons.

    Sylo Taraku, Tina Shagufta Kornmo and Shakil Rehman is all originally from Muslim countries. they believe the conservative Muslims have been given a disproportionate amount of power in Norway.

    Is the main focus of Norwegian Muslims deeply religious and reactionary without respect for democratic values, or do they confess themselves to freedom of expression as much as the majority? The answer is not as obvious as you can get the impression in the media, said participants in the network LIM (Equality, Integration and Diversity).

    - Those who stand out as advocates for immigrants, as the Islamic Council, Muslim Students Society and Osman Rana, are traditionalists. They construct a Muslim identity that gives the impression that most Muslims are more conservative than they actually are. When the media interviews the leader of the Islamic Council, believes people quickly that only those Muslims who live in Norway. But we are many who do not feel offended by the cartoons.

    ...says the hospital doctor and Liberal Party politician Tina Shagufta Kornmo, interpreter and writer Shakil Rehman and senior advisor Sylo Taraku. The three are all 30-40 years. They are not born in Norway, but have immigrated to Norway at a young age from Muslim countries. They met last spring after a debate in the House of Literature in the direction of Aftenposten. There they found together because they all wanted to show solidarity with the controversial Sarah Azmeh Rasmussen, who burned her hijab on Women's day to mark abhorrence against oppression of women in the name of Islam.

    (Ahmed Esmaili, Imam comitee of Islamic council with his statement about muslim woman who wish to work in the Force.

    Counterweight
    Since then, they established the liberal network LIM, together with some Norwegians. After the attack against the Danish cartoonist Kurt Westergaard, believes they are necessary to highlight that the Muslim identity is not unambiguously conservative. They are considering doing so loose network into a more formal organization.

    - Norwegians need to know that we are many liberal immigrants, and that we form a counterweight against traditionalism. Not least that we are many who do not feel offended by the cartoons, so you can get the impression in the newspapers, "says Tina Shagufta.

    The three challenges now both the Islamic Council and the Muslim Students' Society to organize together a demonstration against the use of violence in religion's name, and for freedom of expression.

    - The demonstration must include support for Kurt Westergĺrd right to express himselves. It concerns us all how the extremists are allowed to discredit Islam and Muslims, "said Sylo Taraku.

    He thinks not, however, such a demonstration will bring together as many as the protests in 2006, where thousands of Muslims around Europe demanded respect for their religion, in protest against the cartoons.

    - It is much easier to mobilize those who feel offended. How many Norwegians can you mobilize to demonstrate their solidarity with Westergaard? Surely not many, for it does not feel as strong. But it is nevertheless important to highlight support for freedom of expression as the value, "says Taraku.

    Critical
    (Akhtar Chaudhry, SV)
    Shakil Rehman is very critical of Parliament's Vice-President Akhtar Chaudhry, who he believes are not showing enough solidarity with the Danish cartoonist.

    - Chaudhry said it was wrong to press the drawing. But I do not think it was wrong, it was an utterance. He equates the printing and violence when he said both sides must calm themselves. All agree that the design should not result in violence, but I want the debate: Was it at all wrong that he draw it? The Muslim leaders who believe it, live in a different time. We live in times where there shall be freedom of speech. They also misinterpret Islam. Muhammad did not want people to make drawings of him because he did not want his followers to worship him. To draw him to show his human aspects, however, is in line with his teachings, "said Rehman.

    - You blame the media and said it created a wrong picture. But why have you not even been on the pitch earlier?

    - When the first Muslims came to Norway, they were quick to gather around places to pray. It was totally legitimate. They also discovered that they received financial support for it. Therefore, many organizations are religious. We are secular, have neither the financial or places to meet. But now we see that this shall not go further. The Conservatives' statements only create greater gap between Norwegians and immigrants. There was also an eye-opener for us to discover that well-educated, second generation immigrants as Osman Rana marked themselves as conservatives, "said Rehman.

    Link: http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/ir...cle3450695.ece
    Are the general muslim media representatives in your country far to concervative then what/who they represent?
    Last edited by Kjertesvein; January 06, 2010 at 05:31 AM.
    Thorolf was thus armed. Then Thorolf became so furious that he cast his shield on his back, and, grasping his halberd with both hands, bounded forward dealing cut and thrust on either side. Men sprang away from him both ways, but he slew many. Thus he cleared the way forward to earl Hring's standard, and then nothing could stop him. He slew the man who bore the earl's standard, and cut down the standard-pole. After that he lunged with his halberd at the earl's breast, driving it right through mail and body, so that it came out at the shoulders; and he lifted him up on the halberd over his head, and planted the butt-end in the ground. There on the weapon the earl breathed out his life in sight of all, both friends and foes. [...] 53, Egil's Saga
    I must tell you here of some amusing tricks the Comte d'Eu played on us. I had made a sort of house for myself in which my knights and I used to eat, sitting so as to get the light from the door, which, as it happened, faced the Comte d'Eu's quarters. The count, who was a very ingenious fellow, had rigged up a miniature ballistic machine with which he could throw stones into my tent. He would watch us as we were having our meal, adjust his machine to suit the length of our table, and then let fly at us, breaking our pots and glasses.
    - The pranks played on the knight Jean de Joinville, 1249, 7th crusade.













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    This is the only forum I visit with any sort of frequency and I'm glad it has provided a home for RTR since its own forum went down in 2007. Hopefully my donation along with others from TWC users will help get the site back to its speedy heyday, which will certainly aid us in our endeavor to produce a full conversion mod Rome2.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Liberal muslims goes on the barricades

    nice poll...
    Optio, Legio I Latina

  3. #3
    Kjertesvein's Avatar Remember to smile
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    Default Re: Liberal muslims goes on the barricades

    DEAM!!
    What are you talking about? It has been fine all along.

    EDIT: 50+ views, a handfull of votes and a rep, but not a single comment? Ohh... I guess it's not enuff muslim hatred and violence on the police barricades to fuel the passion of expectation then... Lesson learned.

    ~Wille
    Last edited by Kjertesvein; January 06, 2010 at 07:49 AM.
    Thorolf was thus armed. Then Thorolf became so furious that he cast his shield on his back, and, grasping his halberd with both hands, bounded forward dealing cut and thrust on either side. Men sprang away from him both ways, but he slew many. Thus he cleared the way forward to earl Hring's standard, and then nothing could stop him. He slew the man who bore the earl's standard, and cut down the standard-pole. After that he lunged with his halberd at the earl's breast, driving it right through mail and body, so that it came out at the shoulders; and he lifted him up on the halberd over his head, and planted the butt-end in the ground. There on the weapon the earl breathed out his life in sight of all, both friends and foes. [...] 53, Egil's Saga
    I must tell you here of some amusing tricks the Comte d'Eu played on us. I had made a sort of house for myself in which my knights and I used to eat, sitting so as to get the light from the door, which, as it happened, faced the Comte d'Eu's quarters. The count, who was a very ingenious fellow, had rigged up a miniature ballistic machine with which he could throw stones into my tent. He would watch us as we were having our meal, adjust his machine to suit the length of our table, and then let fly at us, breaking our pots and glasses.
    - The pranks played on the knight Jean de Joinville, 1249, 7th crusade.













    http://imgur.com/a/DMm19
    Quote Originally Posted by Finn View Post
    This is the only forum I visit with any sort of frequency and I'm glad it has provided a home for RTR since its own forum went down in 2007. Hopefully my donation along with others from TWC users will help get the site back to its speedy heyday, which will certainly aid us in our endeavor to produce a full conversion mod Rome2.

  4. #4
    Big War Bird's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Liberal muslims goes on the barricades

    When moderate muslims start burning palestinian flags, stabbing to death radical imams and blowing themselves up in terrorist training camps, I'll be impressed.
    As a teenager, I was taken to various houses and flats above takeaways in the north of England, to be beaten, tortured and raped over 100 times. I was called a “white slag” and “white ****” as they beat me.

    -Ella Hill

  5. #5
    Treize's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Liberal muslims goes on the barricades

    Islamic Media too concervative?

    Prehaps, although they don't really broadcast anything radical.
    They do have a lot of dicussion, but that's hardly negative.
    Miss me yet?

  6. #6

    Default Re: Liberal muslims goes on the barricades

    All three of them?
    "When I die, I want to die peacefully in my sleep, like Fidel Castro, not screaming in terror, like his victims."

    My shameful truth.

  7. #7
    razor-'s Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: Liberal muslims goes on the barricades

    Hmm I think a big part of the problem in my country and probably others too is that average muslims never vocally object to the radicals, so it is very easy to generalize them negatively. On the other hand liberal muslims are often under fire from mainsteam Islam. I don't know why it is like that, perhaps they are more afraid to seem unfaithful to principles than being viewed as overzealous.




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  8. #8
    Heinz Guderian's Avatar *takes off trousers
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    Default Re: Liberal muslims goes on the barricades

    These liberal muslims are agents of the west.




  9. #9
    Farnan's Avatar Saviors of the Japanese
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    Default Re: Liberal muslims goes on the barricades

    Quote Originally Posted by Big War Bird View Post
    When moderate muslims start burning palestinian flags, stabbing to death radical imams and blowing themselves up in terrorist training camps, I'll be impressed.
    Umm...

    So they have to burn a nation's flag (since when has hating people who have done nothing wrong, the vast majority of Palestinians, been a good thing), commit murder (I don't see you calling Christians to stab Pat Robertson, who has advocated murder, to death), and kill themselves (by the way more Muslims than Christians are fighting against terrorists in the War on Terror).
    “The nation that will insist upon drawing a broad line of demarcation between the fighting man and the thinking man is liable to find its fighting done by fools and its thinking by cowards.”

    —Sir William Francis Butler

  10. #10

    Default Re: Liberal muslims goes on the barricades

    Quote Originally Posted by Future Redleg Officer View Post
    Umm...

    So they have to burn a nation's flag (since when has hating people who have done nothing wrong, the vast majority of Palestinians, been a good thing), commit murder (I don't see you calling Christians to stab Pat Robertson, who has advocated murder, to death), and kill themselves (by the way more Muslims than Christians are fighting against terrorists in the War on Terror).

    Noo.. But they actually have to do something to solve the problem that is radical Islam.
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  11. #11
    Farnan's Avatar Saviors of the Japanese
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    Default Re: Liberal muslims goes on the barricades

    They do.

    Moderate Muslim Leaders have repeatedly issued Fatwas against terrorism, sadly ignored by terrorists and the Western Press.
    “The nation that will insist upon drawing a broad line of demarcation between the fighting man and the thinking man is liable to find its fighting done by fools and its thinking by cowards.”

    —Sir William Francis Butler

  12. #12

    Default Re: Liberal muslims goes on the barricades

    I'm going to guess that a outspoken liberal Muslim would have more to fear from radicals than any non-Muslim saying the same thing.

    I knew a very liberal Iranian Muslim, he was cornered by 7 other muslims (literally) in my gradschool and told he had to stop doing/saying/not praying etc, or don't call yourself a muslim. He said I won't call myself a Muslim and they let him go, but he was rather shaken (actually scared ). The thing is the guys who did it are really the 'best of the best', there were doctors and PhD students from 'good' familes and wealth and generally nice guys. Being that leaving the muslim faith is considered punishable by death by some interpretations and traditions, I'm sure it could have been worse for him. These guys just wanted to intimidate him a bit.

    I wouldn't be surprised if its a US thing, surrounded by us seductive infidels, but there is a constant sort of peer pressure to make sure everyone is acting 'muslim' in the ones I know here, the closest like group I can think of here would be the Mormons.

    As for the Iranian, last I heard he married his rather hot white christian girlfriend (who I guess what part of the 'problem') and is living in California.
    "When I die, I want to die peacefully in my sleep, like Fidel Castro, not screaming in terror, like his victims."

    My shameful truth.

  13. #13
    boofhead's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Liberal muslims goes on the barricades

    Oh for God's sake a ''muslims are normal people who dress like dorks and smile stupidly for adverts'' campaign is out.

    Norway, suck it up, you asked for it.

  14. #14
    Big War Bird's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Liberal muslims goes on the barricades

    I'm sure a fatwa from a moderate muslim leader makes UBL sleep with one eye open.

    Moderates are worthless. A moderate goes with the flow. There is no courage, no iron will. Otherwise they wouldn't be moderates.
    Last edited by Big War Bird; January 07, 2010 at 10:46 PM.
    As a teenager, I was taken to various houses and flats above takeaways in the north of England, to be beaten, tortured and raped over 100 times. I was called a “white slag” and “white ****” as they beat me.

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  15. #15

    Default Re: Liberal muslims goes on the barricades

    There is a concerted effort among Islamists to become representatives of the Muslim community without their consent..

    The poster above has a point, it's not easy to count on moderates to do anything that requires effort. Fanatics are so successful because they're fanatic, they have zeal, they know what they want and are willing to slay and be slain in pursuit of it. Moderates just want to be left out of the conflict altogether, and we're usually happy with that because at least it means they're not joining the fanatics. Their assistance instead of frequent anti-american grumblings would be a huge help.
    Last edited by Gauvin; January 07, 2010 at 10:46 PM.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Liberal muslims goes on the barricades

    Based on what I've seen I'd have to say yes, especially when it comes to Islamic women.
    "Midway upon the journey of our life
    I found myself within a forest dark,
    For the straightforward pathway had been lost." Dante Alighieri

  17. #17

    Default Re: Liberal muslims goes on the barricades

    As most Muslim organizations in Western countries are privately funded, one just needs to follow the money.

    In the U.S., most Muslims feel self-secure in normal society to not incessantly need to shoe-horn themselves into a 'be-more-Muslim' lifestyle. It's a weird phenomenon I've noticed in several Jewish communities here, and from accounts of those who've visited Israel for some length of time. So most American Muslims are more worried about their kids' grades and college letters than actively participating in a Muslim organization. And when they do, they mostly just drop a few bucks in the collection boxes every other Friday they decide to actually go to the mosque. Those with a more religious bent and/or activist mind about the Muslim American community join these organizations, setting up events and jummah prayers at convention centers, etc.

    Membership, however, is limited to a local zone of influence, of which a small percentage are active in a religious-political lobby or advocacy group. The local town/city Muslim organization, basically. Positions in state and national level groups, however, are filled with an even smaller minority pulled from the previous rank. Funding, however, is now even more limited to those who really care to give it...

  18. #18
    Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Liberal muslims goes on the barricades

    Quote Originally Posted by Big War Bird View Post
    When moderate muslims start burning palestinian flags, stabbing to death radical imams and blowing themselves up in terrorist training camps, I'll be impressed.
    My Oxymoron Sense is tingling... Do you quite understand what "moderate" means, pray tell ?

  19. #19

    Default Re: Liberal muslims goes on the barricades

    Quote Originally Posted by Big War Bird View Post
    When moderate muslims start burning palestinian flags, stabbing to death radical imams and blowing themselves up in terrorist training camps, I'll be impressed.
    So let me get this straight...

    You won't be impressed until "moderate" Muslims, who by definition have renounced violence and condemned such acts by some of their co-religionists, engage in violence to stop them?

    Really?
    قرطاج يجب ان تدمر

  20. #20

    Default Re: Liberal muslims goes on the barricades

    Quote Originally Posted by Big War Bird View Post
    When moderate muslims start burning palestinian flags, stabbing to death radical imams and blowing themselves up in terrorist training camps, I'll be impressed.
    maybe not that extreme but i concur with the line of thought.
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