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    Default Afghanistan war the costs

    http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/1121/p01s03-usmi.html

    WASHINGTON
    Whether troop levels increase in coming months, or decrease, or stay the same, one aspect of the US military effort in Iraq is unlikely to change: It will be expensive.

    The cost of combat in Iraq has now surpassed $300 billion, according to government estimates. Add in activities in Afghanistan, and the total price of the global war on terror is about $500 billion, making it one of the most monetarily costly conflicts in which the nation has ever engaged.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Now the Department of Defense is in the process of drawing up its follow-on request for the remainder of FY 2007. Reports indicate that the Pentagon could ask for $120 billion to $160 billion, which would be its largest funding request yet for the global war on terror.

    After they take control of Congress next year, Democrats will almost certainly investigate both the rate of Iraq spending and the manner in which it has been appropriated. Much of the war has been funded through supplementals, so-called emergency bills whose use in this case has become increasingly controversial in Congress.

    "We're now at $507 billion for the global war on terror and counting, and almost all of that has been pushed through a process that doesn't give proper scrutiny to the budget. Are we spending it wisely?" says Gordon Adams, a fellow at the Woodrow Wilson International Center who was the senior White House official for national security budgets under President Clinton.

    Last month, Congress approved $70 billion in spending intended to pay for operations in Iraq and Afghanistan through the first six months of fiscal 2007, which began Oct. 1 for the US government.

    The size of the request under discussion reflects both the continued nature of the mission and past wear-and-tear. Both the Army and the Air Force need billions to replace expensive hardware worn out by the pace of warfare in Iraq.

    Before the invasion of Iraq, the White House estimated that combat operations there would cost about $50 billion. That forecast, however, was based on a quick end to the war and a rapid drawdown of US troops.

    Three years later, Iraq alone is costing the US some $8 billion a month.

    Estimates of total spending vary, due to the fact that Department of Defense records on obligations do not provide comprehensive specifics, and the supplemental bills voted by Congress do not have the line-item details of regular sending bills.

    Congressional Research Service figures puts the cost of Iraq, Afghanistan, and other war-on-terror activities at $507 billion. Of that, the Afghan campaign has cost at least $88 billion, according to CRS. Iraq accounts for the bulk of the rest.

    The drain of continued fighting in Iraq has meant that the global war on terror has steadily moved up the list of the most costly conflicts in US history (in terms of money, not casualties). In 2005, it passed the Korean war's inflation-adjusted cost of $361 billion.

    Next year it will almost certainly pass the Vietnam War's $531 billion, making it the second most expensive US war ever, behind World War II.

    Given the uncertainty of troop levels, it is very difficult to estimate the US military's future costs in Iraq.

    Overall, each individual soldier deployed in Iraq for a year costs about $275,000, according to CRS. The cost rises to $360,000 if required additional investments in equipment and facilities are added.

    Using a scenario in which US troop levels fall to 73,000 by 2010, and then stay at that level, the Congressional Budget Office estimates that the cumulative cost of the global war on terror could reach $808 billion by 2016.

    Meanwhile, the Pentagon and the Bush administration have continued the practice by which funding for the war on terror is requested in the form of supplemental appropriations. Supplementals are prepared much closer to the time when the money will actually be spent. The Vietnam War, for instance, was funded via supplementals at its outset. Later, Vietnam costs were folded into the regular budget process.

    Supplementals provide much less detail as to where money will be spent than do regular budget documents, and receive less congressional oversight than do regular budget bills.

    So far, the White House has shown little inclination to fund Iraq and Afghanistan via the regular budget, despite some pressure from Congress to do so. In addition, the nature of items paid for via these war spending bills may have begun to expand, to include items related to peacetime missions as well.

    A Democratic-controlled Congress will almost certainly look for ways to increase pressure on the White House to abandon the flexibility and opaqueness of the emergency bill approach.
    Please use a spoiler on long quotes -- VP

    That's from 2006. Now maybe around $750-900 billion maybe?
    Last edited by Viking Prince; January 06, 2010 at 05:16 AM.

  2. #2
    Heinz Guderian's Avatar *takes off trousers
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    Default Re: Afghanistan war the costs

    But at least we have a stable non-corrupt universally popular government in Kabul which doesnt partake in fraud, drug smuggling, and nepotism. Women are now free and walk safely all about and all the warlords are in jail.

    Thats why it doesnt hurt when a British soldier dies for these heroes of Afghanistan




  3. #3

    Default Re: Afghanistan war the costs

    Quote Originally Posted by Monopolist View Post
    That's from 2006. Now maybe around $750-900 billion maybe?
    $750 billion. Spread over a decade.

    Guess how much GDP the US generated over that time. Guess how insignificant $750 billion is relative to that number.
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    Prince of Yunderup's Avatar Tiro
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    Default Re: Afghanistan war the costs

    People with shares in the armament business (including the Bush family) are laughing their way to the bank.

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    green tea's Avatar Ducenarius
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    Default Re: Afghanistan war the costs

    http://www.costofwar.com/

    "Only" more than 235,000,000,000 $ for Afghanistan, together with Iraq, soon the cost will reach 1,000,000,000,000 $.
    Last edited by green tea; January 06, 2010 at 08:48 AM.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Afghanistan war the costs

    I don't think anyone with the mildest principles could willingly return swaths of Afghanistan to Taliban rule. It amounts to selling thousands of men women and children into slavery at the hands of brutal, insane, and repressive masters. The Taliban is a fascist organization, it seeks a totalitarian society where all that is permitted is compulsory and all that is prohibited carries a death sentence.

    I'm forced to detect a cruel and bitter irony in the fact that the people who have traditionally criticized american realism are now advocating it in place of american idealism. Its amazing to me to see the so called left in the same strategic camp as Henry Kissinger.

    If you want to talk about the cost of the war, ask yourself what is the cost of liberty? How much does the liberty of the afghans cost? Would you sell them to the Taliban for 235,000,000,000 dollars? Would you sell your own family for that amount?

    As far as I am concerned you could write me a check for all the money known to man and I still wouldn't sign it.
    "Midway upon the journey of our life
    I found myself within a forest dark,
    For the straightforward pathway had been lost." Dante Alighieri

  7. #7

    Default Re: Afghanistan war the costs

    Quote Originally Posted by Giuliano Taverna View Post
    I don't think anyone with the mildest principles could willingly return swaths of Afghanistan to Taliban rule. It amounts to selling thousands of men women and children into slavery at the hands of brutal, insane, and repressive masters. The Taliban is a fascist organization, it seeks a totalitarian society where all that is permitted is compulsory and all that is prohibited carries a death sentence.

    I'm forced to detect a cruel and bitter irony in the fact that the people who have traditionally criticized american realism are now advocating it in place of american idealism. Its amazing to me to see the so called left in the same strategic camp as Henry Kissinger.

    If you want to talk about the cost of the war, ask yourself what is the cost of liberty? How much does the liberty of the afghans cost? Would you sell them to the Taliban for 235,000,000,000 dollars? Would you sell your own family for that amount?

    As far as I am concerned you could write me a check for all the money known to man and I still wouldn't sign it.
    If they don't want to live under the tyrannical Taliban they can go kill them off themselves. Why must they need some foreign power to come in and save them from themselves?

    Why should that "foreign power" foot the bill.

    At the moment the Taliban can go pose as the heroic liberators against the infidel invaders. Our presence discredits the enemies of Taliban as "foreign" and "uninslamic".

    If the Taliban can no longer claim the patriotic and Islamic high-ground, how much weaker they would be.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Afghanistan war the costs

    Quote Originally Posted by Slayer of Cliffracers View Post
    If they don't want to live under the tyrannical Taliban they can go kill them off themselves. Why must they need some foreign power to come in and save them from themselves?

    Why should that "foreign power" foot the bill.

    At the moment the Taliban can go pose as the heroic liberators against the infidel invaders. Our presence discredits the enemies of Taliban as "foreign" and "uninslamic".

    If the Taliban can no longer claim the patriotic and Islamic high-ground, how much weaker they would be.
    Because unarmed peasants, and women can stand up to jihadist rebels supported with Saudi capital and armed by the Pakistani central intelligence service... On what planet do you spend most of your time?
    "Midway upon the journey of our life
    I found myself within a forest dark,
    For the straightforward pathway had been lost." Dante Alighieri

  9. #9

    Default Re: Afghanistan war the costs

    Quote Originally Posted by Giuliano Taverna View Post
    Because unarmed peasants, and women can stand up to jihadist rebels supported with Saudi capital and armed by the Pakistani central intelligence service... On what planet do you spend most of your time?
    This is the problem with your whole little world. Everyone is so damn passive, needed to be liberated by some foreign army not withstanding that ultimately any freedom that people are unwilling or unable to fight for themselves is doomed in the long-run.

    These unarmed peasants why are they unarmed? Nothing stops you from handing our arms to the opponents of the Taliban in order to counter-act Saudi support for the Taliban. And remember this is Afghanistan, nearly all the peasants are armed to the teeth anyway.

    And your whole argument is a nonsense anyway. The reason is that when we got there the Afghans were already in armed rebellion against the Taliban anyway. Remember the Northern Alliance?

    But despite the massive celebration when they liberated Kabul from the rule of Taliban now with vast amounts of foreign forces they are unable to control the country. Why is that Giuliano?

    Is it not obvious that the very fact the anti-Taliban people cannot manage to capitalize upon the fact the Taliban are well the kind of scum that they are, has a lot to do with the very obviously foreign nature of their rule.

    One does not destroy the Taliban by recreated the very conditions of their birth, that is a foreign invasion by non-Muslims. The Taliban die when there is no foreign invasion, when people get to confront how nasty they really are.

  10. #10
    Tirus's Avatar Tiro
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    Default Re: Afghanistan war the costs

    Bush just flushed all the money Clinton away, without thinking of the consequences..

  11. #11

    Default Re: Afghanistan war the costs

    Quote Originally Posted by Tirus View Post
    Bush just flushed all the money Clinton away, without thinking of the consequences..
    What money?

    Oh, you mean the money saved by neutering the FBI and CIA, which contributed the security gaps that allowed things like, say, 9/11 to happen?

    I wish the world were so black and white, so neat and tidy. It's awesome that the Clinton Adminsitration ran a budget surplus, but that was the cost of other things.
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    Quote Originally Posted by motiv-8 View Post
    What money?

    Oh, you mean the money saved by neutering the FBI and CIA, which contributed the security gaps that allowed things like, say, 9/11 to happen?

    I wish the world were so black and white, so neat and tidy. It's awesome that the Clinton Adminsitration ran a budget surplus, but that was the cost of other things.
    Allright; in this post you state that Clinton hasn't taken good care of the American secret services speaking in terms of funding.. But under Bush Jr. the secret services didn't operate as they should've; because of Dick (most literally speaking) Cheney; he made the FBI and CIA into two rivalising organisations which made efficient exchange of info on the 9/11 attacks impossible, and also resulted in bad comms with the 'Euro's' resulting in around 300 dead in 2 terrible terrorist attacks. The fact that Europe was attacked itself can also be retraced to that bloody, frickin' expensive, and failed, war in Afghanistan; by helping the Americans attack their bases the Euro's are also guilty in the eyes of the Al-Qaeda, triggering attacks on Europe. Furthermore, the 'allies' of the USA have only been drawn into Afghanistan on request of the US; we didn't win anything with for ourselves in Europe (not even extra security, just better diplomatical relations with US).

    On the debt; Clinton made a surplus of money; which you say will pay the nat. debt. sometime. If Clinton made a decent future possible, Bush only completely destroyed it... Btw; better US-Russia relations mean serious economical, diplomatical and military power possibilities in the World, only, due to deteoration, these possibilities have been thwarted.

    So, in the end, there's not much good to say about the Afghanistan war..

    Quote Originally Posted by Giuliano Taverna View Post
    In his second term under pressure from republican majorities in congress. I'm not sure you can credit him with much. My point is that he was absolutely horrible on the subject of the middle east in a way that exceeds the rapacity of his predecessor and the incompetence of his successor. At least Bush 41 saved Kuwait, at least Bush 43 put in a serious effort to rout the forces of Islamic reaction and fascism. Clinton just placated whoever he had to, and followed the advice of people who unlike him knew what they were doing.
    We in Europe see things really different, just like with Obama now..
    BTW; Islamic fascism doesn't exist, seriously, its BS..
    Last edited by Pontifex Maximus; January 06, 2010 at 08:40 PM.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Afghanistan war the costs

    Quote Originally Posted by Tirus View Post
    Bush just flushed all the money Clinton away, without thinking of the consequences..
    Clinton was a war criminal who bombed a pharmaceutical factory in the Sudan to distract people from his sex scandal, I wouldn't endorse him too highly were I you.

    "Midway upon the journey of our life
    I found myself within a forest dark,
    For the straightforward pathway had been lost." Dante Alighieri

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    Tirus's Avatar Tiro
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    Default Re: Afghanistan war the costs

    Well, I guess nobody, not even secret services like the FBI and CIA saw the 9.11 attacks coming, nor could've ever have seen them coming.. And that is not because they've not gotten enough money from the American state. And this 'war on terrorism' is a bit of a farce I think; you don't extinguish terrorism by invading two entirely different countrys.. Yes, Afghanistan might've been the #1 nest for terrorists, but a large scale invasion like 2001 one isn't the way to retaliate. I think Bush should've thought of the consequences of the 2001 invasion. He's gotten his country into economical mess without the spent money being worth spending..

  15. #15

    Default Re: Afghanistan war the costs

    Well, I guess nobody, not even secret services like the FBI and CIA saw the 9.11 attacks coming, nor could've ever have seen them coming..
    Uhh, except for all the plain intel that was received by the FBI and CIA but had neither the means nor the will to communicate the information and connect the dots. Why exactly do you think there is a big deal going on about the attempted bombing on Christmas Day? Because the exact same thing happened, when we were supposed to have learned our lesson.

    I mean, seriously? "Oh, it's okay, they had no way of knowing" is complete nonsense and an abhorrent attitude.
    And this 'war on terrorism' is a bit of a farce I think; you don't extinguish terrorism by invading two entirely different countrys..
    No, you sure don't. But you're wrong if you think that is truly the only thing the United States is doing.
    Yes, Afghanistan might've been the #1 nest for terrorists, but a large scale invasion like 2001 one isn't the way to retaliate.
    Yes, it is. The invasion completed every objective it was meant to, except for capturing Osama bin Laden. Afghanistan is no longer the #1 nest for terrorists and if it weren't for a weak Pakistan, the entire region would be a lot less infested.

    There are many issues to be taken up with the way al-Qaeda and terrorism in general have been handled, but they are later than October 2001.
    I think Bush should've thought of the consequences of the 2001 invasion. He's gotten his country into economical mess without the spent money being worth spending..
    Afghanistan has absolutely NOTHING to do with why the economy is poor.
    Last edited by motiv-8; January 06, 2010 at 11:22 AM.
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    Tirus's Avatar Tiro
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    Default Re: Afghanistan war the costs

    Well, government debt is quite a factor in the deteorating of the US economy. And you say the CIA and FBI got 'plain' intel; what do you mean by that? The means of communicating were quite well, only the FBI and CIA are rivalising which makes decent cooperation less easy. The terrorist have moved to Pakistan, but there are still large concentrations of 'em in the northern/northeastern provinces. But meanwhile the US military and officials are still busy trying to unify the Afghan tribes, keep peace and try to not get killed (and of course fighting those terrorists in the north). Every month at least a couple of US soldiers dies in action; and for what cause? Terrorism hasn't really declined the last decade, nor has it increased significantly, but still; what are they fighting for, and what is the US govt. spending its money on?

  17. #17

    Default Re: Afghanistan war the costs

    Quote Originally Posted by Tirus View Post
    Well, government debt is quite a factor in the deteorating of the US economy.
    Right now, no, that's not the immediate cause. Long-term it is indeed quite a factor, but Afghanistan is not anywhere close to the main contributor.
    And you say the CIA and FBI got 'plain' intel; what do you mean by that?
    See Chapters 3-8 of the 9/11 Commission Report.
    The terrorist have moved to Pakistan, but there are still large concentrations of 'em in the northern/northeastern provinces. But meanwhile the US military and officials are still busy trying to unify the Afghan tribes, keep peace and try to not get killed (and of course fighting those terrorists in the north). Every month at least a couple of US soldiers dies in action; and for what cause?
    You literally just answered your own question, before you ever asked it. Besides, asking why soldiers die in a combat area is a rhetorical question.
    Terrorism hasn't really declined the last decade, nor has it increased significantly, but still; what are they fighting for, and what is the US govt. spending its money on?
    It hasn't declined? Really? Take a cursory glance at terrorist attacks on the United States between 1991-2000 and 2001-2010.
    objectives in Afghanistan were achieved ? very important part of Afghan GDP comes from drug trade..there are many farms in which ordinary people grow up opium for subsistence..US forces mostly don't touch the farms in order not to leave that people without any income and not to cause those people joining Taleban..On the contrary, Taleban burns every farms it finds and kills the farmers..anyway, in both situation, economy is in ruins..Taleban destroys only income source of many Afghans, US forces allow people to grow up opium..
    I have absolutely no idea what you droning on about opium has to do with your questioning that the objectives were achieved. Do you understand what those objectives were?

    1.Remove the Taliban and replace their government with another one
    2.Destroy al-Qaeda bases in Afghanistan
    3.Capture or Kill Osama bin Laden and his associates that perpetrated the 9/11 attacks

    And by the way, what you're saying about the Taliban burning farms is false. They have their hands deep in opium production and trade, but their funds are still declining.

    I'm not going to bother responding to the rest because it doesn't actually address the assertions of the previous post. Everyone knows that the situation in Afghanistan is critical but that has nothing to do with what I am talking about.
    Last edited by motiv-8; January 06, 2010 at 11:45 AM.
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  18. #18

    Default Re: Afghanistan war the costs

    Quote Originally Posted by motiv-8 View Post
    Right now, no, that's not the immediate cause. Long-term it is indeed quite a factor, but Afghanistan is not anywhere close to the main contributor.

    See Chapters 3-8 of the 9/11 Commission Report.

    You literally just answered your own question, before you ever asked it. Besides, asking why soldiers die in a combat area is a rhetorical question.

    It hasn't declined? Really? Take a cursory glance at terrorist attacks on the United States between 1991-2000 and 2001-2010.

    I have absolutely no idea what you droning on about opium has to do with your questioning that the objectives were achieved. Do you understand what those objectives were?

    1.Remove the Taliban and replace their government with another one
    2.Destroy al-Qaeda bases in Afghanistan
    3.Capture or Kill Osama bin Laden and his associates that perpetrated the 9/11 attacks

    And by the way, what you're saying about the Taliban burning farms is false. They have their hands deep in opium production and trade, but their funds are still declining.

    I'm not going to bother responding to the rest because it doesn't actually address the assertions of the previous post. Everyone knows that the situation in Afghanistan is critical but that has nothing to do with what I am talking about.
    look at the graphs showing opium production since 2001..it was more than doubled..here look at that clause ; In 2007, 93% of the opiates on the world market originated in Afghanistan..

    and then look at that ; Afghanistan's economy has thus evolved to the point where it is now highly dependent on opium. Although less than 4 percent of arable land in Afghanistan was used for opium poppy cultivation in 2006, revenue from the harvest brought in over $3 billion—more than 35 percent of the country's total gross national product (GNP)

    here ; Based on UNODC data, there has been more opium poppy cultivation in each of the past four growing seasons (2004–2007), than in any one year during Taliban rule

    economy in afhanistan much depends on opium production..opium banned under taleban rule before the invasion..and even now, Taleban kills opium farmers and burns the farms..

  19. #19
    Tirus's Avatar Tiro
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    Default Re: Afghanistan war the costs

    Wait a second please... So you say that the 'war on terror' is only for the protection of the USA? There might've been less terror attacks on the US last 2 decades, but there's been a rise (more or less 100%) of terrorist attacks (London 7/7/07, Madrid 3/11/04) on Europe by Al-Qaeda. If it only concerns US, why the (big F) have my fellow Dutch countrymen given their lives in Afghanistan then? About US Nat. Debt; the national debt weighs heavy on the taxpaying citizens, because, after all, a debt has to be payed.. by the common man.

    P.S.: why u added other guys text to your quote of my piece?

  20. #20
    Tirus's Avatar Tiro
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    Default Re: Afghanistan war the costs

    @Giuliano Taverna

    Clinton has killed innocent people in Sudan, and had a wierd relationship with some secretary, true, but still, he was a good president for the US; he paid the Nat. Debt, improved or kept intact the international relations (including with Russia and former USSR countries) and provided Bush Jr. with a 'healthy' (well, economically speaking) America.

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