misc. family tree info
This is just some things I found out looking around in pack file manager, esf editor, and dbeditor, with a specific focus on family tree/ faction characters.
What USE this information is I can't say. But every little bit helps.
portion of a relevant dialog I had recently ;
kesa - "Though heirs are generated randomly, it draws the information from a LIMITED STOCK of data.
For Example , in files ( in debeditor ) there is a file, " royal names. " all the factions are in a list, and every faction has ONLY a certain number of names on the list. That is, no matter how many times the dice is rolled, you will never have a Polish king named "Anwar Sadat " because there is no Anwar Sadat on the list of Polish Royal names.
So, maybe someday someone will figure out how to modify the odds , the source data, in such a way that you can, with reasonable predictability, modify the succession from 1700 to 1800.
For example , if you wanted to impose Salic law on your faction, delete all females from the pool of source data for your faction , and no female will ever come to the throne ???? "
But I could be wrong. I don't know enough yet to say for sure. "
Isabelxxx - " It's possible. I have seen a mod which do exactly that, in this case for Spanish generals. I will ask who made it (I'm interested in doing something similar). "
concerning ancillaries and traits -
( At the moment I can't remember the exact names of the tables, and Im not on my own computer.so I'll add the exact titles later. )
In db editor there is a table with a name like , " character traits to threshold modifiers " and " ancillaries to character traits " I don't know precisely what the columns and numbers on the right side of the screen in these tables signify. But taken together, these two tables seem to indicate that a character will acquire an ancillary once their trait score / number is high enough.
( note : some traits appear in the tables that are not visible on the character information screen in the game. For example, at the beginning of the game, in 1700, the Austrian faction has a minister, Tobias Shindler , according to dbeditor and esf editor Tobias Shndler has " C._feck_vice. " But there is no reference to any vice in his in-game information. Indeed, nothing listed in print on the in-game info screen for Tobias Shindler at all. He does have a mistress, and of course that does appear on screen. My researches indicate, by the way, that the mistress ancillary and C_feck_vice have a direct corralation. Where you find C_feck_vice, you'll find a mistress )
So, it would appear that if you wanted a minister to have a mistress, give him C_feck_vice and in the column on the right side of the screen, ramp that number next to C_feck_vice up to 2 , or, for good measure, 4 , and a mistress should show up in his retinue directly ?
Fun with numbers, and traits -
Every character seems to have an invisible base command number / star of 1.
To use Tobias Shindler of Austrian faction again as an example; About the only thing Shindler has going for him is C_feck_vice ---but Feck vice has no effect on his command stars ( more about that in a second ) . Anyway, he has three stars in the game, but his mangement number in character array, his trait modifiers, don't seem to add up to 3, but only to 2. So what I said above must be true. Of course the likely answer is there is another modifieing number appearing in the tables that I haven't discovered yet.
In the columnes on the right side of the screen in esf editor and dbeditor you often run across a number like "-1 " so I assumed if the triat modifier numbers were negative, then, likewise, they would show up in the columnes as "-1" "-5" etc. NOT SO.
At the start of the game, in 1700, Austrian faction's king is Leopold. If we give Leopold the invisible command star mentioned above, add up the numbers in the columes next to his traits, and add the number next to "mangement" in Character array , we come up with 8 stars for leopold. But Leopold only has 4 stars in the game. What is this ?one of Leopolds traits has the number "5" next to it. No minus sign. We go into the game, and read the in-game description of this trait. The in-game description gives the impression that this is a rather negative trait. It is in fact a negatively impacting trait. The " 5 " in fact has the effect of -5 on his command stars. So, now when we add up the numbers, enstead of adding the 5, we subtract the 5, and, sure enough, Leopold should have 4 command stars, and indeed 4 command stars is what he has in game.
As mentioned above , some traits apparently have no impact on command stars. There seem to be quite a few of these traits in fact. But my particular interest at the moment is the Bishop and Mistress ancillaries , and how to add them to my royal family characters, so those are the ones I know and remember.
As I said, where you see " C_feck_vice" in a kings or ministers traits you invariably seem to find a mistress. As I said, C_feck _vice does not show up in any form as a trait in Character information in the game, but the mistress, with her pretty little portrait, does show up in-game. So we hover our cursor over her portrait, and start reading. Possession of a mistress gives our character a +1 popularity boost with the nobility, and a -1 to popularity with the peasants. It says nothing about management or command effects. And, indeed, as mentioned earlier, in adding up the numbers that seem to effect command stars in esf editor , C_feck_vice --- "1 " adds nothing, subtracts nothing, from command stars.
the case of the invisible minister
I was studieing the mistress ancillary. In a saved game 1704 I had two ministers with mistress ancillaries, Tobias Shindler and Otto Lauberbach. ( this in Austrian faction ) I Compared Shindler and Lauberbach in the esf editor tables, looking for factors they had in common. When I was finished, I loaded the saved game, and went into the game to look at them there.
there was no Otto Lauberbach in the game ! Not as a minister, not as general or a priest, nothing.
unfortunately I played that saved game weeks ago, so I can't remember exactly what happened. The best theory I can come up with is that in that game I replaced one minister with another, and then Lauberbach popped up as a candidate replacement. ( in the tables I have looked at so far in esf editor ministers do not appear in the tables UNTIL they become candidate ministers. Just like children in the royal family do not appear in the tables until they are born. ( exception ; as I mentioned at the beginning of this thread, there is a table in DBeditor " royal names " that lists EVERY name I have ever seen pop up as a faction heir or claimant in the game, regardless of whether they are present in 1700, 1710, or 1740. )
anyway, so I theorize that i replaced a minister , Lauberbach popped up then as a candidate. then I made him a minister, and then I replaced him.
There are only so many ministers in the character array tables. The number, I learned, is always 13. in the game though, only 11 ministers are represented ; the king, 5 ministers, and 5 canditates.
Hmmm, so why are there 13 ministers listed in character array ? Perhaps two replaced ministers remain in character array even though they are not in play ?
I tried an experiment. I went into the game, and I replaced a minister with another minister named Balthazar Fuchs. I advanced a turn, saved, and went back to esf editor. otto lauberbach was still there, but the minister balthazar Fuchs replaced had disappeared. He was now gone from the list of 13 ministers in character array. Hmmmm
I habitually play as Austrian faction, so I have many times now started a new campaign as Austria. the Cabinet Minister lineup is always the same in 1700, and otto Lauberbach is not one of them. not as an acting minister, not as a candidate.
I went back to my saved games and esf editor. I saved my way through 8 years of ministerial changes, every turn replacing a minister, advancing a turn, saving, and going back to esf editor to look at the list. Every replaced minister disappeared, but Otto Lauberbach remained.
While going through this cycle of changes, after I had advanced one turn an event message popped up, telling me that ( the invisible ) Otto Lauberbach had acquired the trait, " no sense of shame " !
One more thing, in character array , next to management, the number is 5.
So Otto Lauberbach would be a 5 star minister going into office.
Anyway, curious case.
I hope you find some information of utility in all this. As for myself I have not as yet attempted any family tree / character modifications. But just studieing the subject has proven fascinating. I hope you find it so as well. there are a thousand pages that will tell you how to create a unit of Grenadiers .
But this field, my consuming interest, is so far rather neglected.
A real shame. the BAI in TW has always sucked, and I predict with great confidence that it always will suck. Units ---- there are so many units now, ( we are slightly less than a full year from game release ) that the largest possible army could not contain one example of every unit available.
But where ETW really falls down in comparison to previous titles is in character development and immersion.
----and our expert modders aren't interested.
so if the subject does interest you, if you do know something about it, please do post something.
you won't clutter this forum. Like i said, there are a thousand pages, hundreds of threads, on the ONE subject units.
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Originally Posted by Isabelxxx
