So, global warming debate started to pick up over the course of 2009, they 'tried' to make some deal that would change co2 emissions which humorously failed, before that of course was the equally funny climate gate scandal, and of course the arctic ice actually growing but upto 30%, But what really got me going was the record snowfalls this year, in almost every part of the world even in some of the hottest, remotest places, From america all the way over to china, while the summit what happening too! .
And thus Nature starts to laugh at our attempts to master it, or the ludicrous conceit that we have already done so. It's warmer, it's cooler, the ice grows, the ice melts, the wind blows, just like it always has, im no scientist, but doesnt this atleast show the climate swings in either direction, instead of constantly warming up like is forced down our throats at the barrel of the tax gun ? Well atleast The frauds and despots who want drastic and costly changes to human behavior are being exposed as the greedy, dishonest fools they are
But maybe the incredibly high temperatures lateley have been messing with my brain
Heres pictures and a nice description of the huge record snowfalls around the world.
AMERICA
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Freezing weather gripped large parts of the U.S. early this morning - with no relief in sight for the rest of the week.
Wind chill took the temperatures in Minneapolis, Minnesota, down to -17C.
While the upper Midwest is used to frigid weather, the sunshine state Florida is also suffering freezing temperatures.
The Panhandle and much of northern Florida is under a hard freeze warning, the National Weather Service says. The warning extended almost down to Tampa along the Gulf Coast.
Florida officials have been urging residents, visitors and farmers to prepare for temperatures near or below the freezing mark this week.
Along with the dangerously cold temperatures, residents in Montana are braced for blizzard conditions with snowfall of 12 to 20 inches possible across parts of the state.
In Chicago, residents bundled up on another bitterly cold day.
Despite the dangerous cold, some people ventured out - especially parishioners at Holy Name Cathedral.
'It's God first. Even though weather is terrible, we've still got to go to church,' Alez Alverez told CNN.
In the Northeast, the Weather Service warned that a large storm off the New England coast would continue to bring heavy snow to much of central New York state.
CHINA
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Snow storms today have caused chaos in China's capital of Beijing, bringing aeroplanes to a halt and causing severe traffic delays.
Around 90 per cent of all flights were either delayed or cancelled, leaving thousands of passengers stranded.
In addition, major roads in Beijing and Tianjin, as well as nearby provinces Hebei, Shanxi and Inner Mongolia, were forced to close due to the heavy snow.
The snow shows no sign of stopping, however, and temperatures are expected to drop to -16C in Beijing on Monday and Tuesday, causing more problems for those attempting to returning to work after a three-day New Year holiday.
Authorities in Beijing and Tianjin announced today there will be no classes at primary and middle schools tomorrow as the snow had caused traffic chaos.
SOUTH KOREA
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
In Seoul a blizzard dumped more than 25cm of snow today – the heaviest snowfall since Korea began conducting meteorological surveys in 1937, the state weather agency said.
INDIA
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Not a country usually associated with snow, India has experienced severe problems since Saturday when snowfall and a dense blanket of fog began to cause chaos.
More than 30 people died in cold-weather related incidents in Northern India over the past 24 hours, with 10 of those losing their lives in train accidents caused by the fog.
Meanwhile, 24 homeless people have also died in the Uttar Pradesh state since Saturday due to the severe drop in temperature.
Srinagar, Jammu and Kashmir were all hit with heavy snow, while Gujarat, Rajasthan, Punjab, Haryana and Delhi also recorded snowfall over the past 24 hours.
Flights from New Delhi were grounded or delayed yesterday because of poor visibility, Shashanka Nanda, a spokesman for the Delhi International Airport Limited said, before adding that conditions had improved today.
GERMANY
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
The snow caused more problems with flights in Germany, with one jet veering off the runway at Dortmund airport in western Germany.
The Air Berlin Boeing 737-800 broke to abort the take-off due to a 'technical irregularity', but none of the 165 passengers and six crew members were injured.
The plane was not damaged but flights from the airport were cancelled or diverted for a large part of the day.
Airline spokeswoman Diane Daedelow said: 'A combination of the snowy weather and the speed the plane was travelling at forced the plane to skid off the runway.'
Over 30 flights from Frankfurt airport were also cancelled this morning.
Snow covers the trees on the mountain Schauinsland in the Black Forest, Germany
RUSSIA
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
A country much more used to dealing with high levels of snow, Russia saw temperature lows of a chilling -20C in Moscow today.
Those travelling on trains at stations near the Russian city of Vorkuta, attempted to continue their journeys despite the freezing conditions.
A worker tries to clear the train tracks while a man, unaware of the train approaching him, attempts to cross
AUSTRIA
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
While they are much more accustomed to dealing with snow, even native Austrians were struggling to cope with the freezing lows of -8C at night and -3C during the day.
But one creature happy to bound around in the fluffy snow was a mix breed dog called Lotta, who seemed entirely unconcerned as she became coated in snow during her run in Unken, in the Austrian province of Salzburg.
Meteorologists have predicted continued light snowfalls for the upcoming days in Austria.
Last edited by Martin N; January 04, 2010 at 09:08 PM.
"I may not like what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - Voltaire(1694–1778)
Somebody needs to check dubious source material and learn what cherry picking is. The ice grew 30% ? My arse
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
,
sure It's larger than 2007, but thats because 2007 is the hottest year ever(on record).
You talk about climate gate? If anything climate gate shows us the media will use any opportunity to attack global warming. 2000 emails were leaked, 5 of those when read out of context seems dubious, but if you actually read the entire conversation it all becomes clear. (Hide the decline was talking about tree rings not temperature)
As for the record snowfall? If you bother to listen to the warnings of climatologists they say that would happen so yay them, another prediction come true.
Last edited by Erlinggra; January 04, 2010 at 10:45 PM.
Somebody needs to check dubious source material and learn what cherry picking is. The ice grew 30% ? My arse
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
,
sure It's larger than 2007, but thats because 2007 is the hottest year ever(on record).
You talk about climate gate? If anything climate gate shows us the media will use any opportunity to attack global warming. 2000 emails were leaked, 5 of those when read out of context seems dubious, but if you actually read the entire conversation it all becomes clear. (Hide the decline was talking about tree rings not temperature)
As for the record snowfall? If you bother to listen to the warnings of climatologists they say that would happen so yay them, another prediction come true.
So... at worst the ice is unchanging since roughly 1979. What's all this crap about accelerating melting ice caps?
Sure I've been called a xenophobe, but the truth is Im not. I honestly feel that America is the best country and all other countries aren't as good. That used to be called patriotism.
Look at the graph. 2008 is the best example, but 09 isn't too far off either. 05 looks to be the outlier. The physical amount of ice in July and November is statitistically unchanging from what it has been since 1979. The ice may melt more in the summer, but as far as the actual amount of ice we are par for the course.
This is a poorly setup graph though, I would have stretched it out for the whole year and offered multiple 4 and 5 year averages plus the over arching 1979 to 2009 one.
As a total aside: I'm still trying to figure out what standard deviation has to do with this question given we're not talking about a 'sample' of the ice cap and instead considering the whole damn thing and the fact that a minimum straight 20% of it has melted. Maybe someone can explain this to me.
From 1979 to 2009, the Ice typically fluctuates that much around the average. There clear and concise.
Last edited by JP226; January 05, 2010 at 09:51 AM.
Sure I've been called a xenophobe, but the truth is Im not. I honestly feel that America is the best country and all other countries aren't as good. That used to be called patriotism.
Yeh i got the year wrong my bad, it was 2008, not 2009 that it grew 30%
And i did read the emails, taken out of context my ass, why would anyone say they would hide the decline of tree rings, in discussion of global warming ?
And i dont care if scientists predicted heavy snowfall or not, anyone can predict it with a satelite reading in most cases, its the point that the temperatures dropped sharp and that weve had record snowfalls since records actually began in the 20s/40s, the point is its different to the official line that temps are rising and if we dont stop them with taxes that do nothing but line the world elites pockets the earth will be in danger and meh, well you know the rest.
Last edited by Martin N; January 04, 2010 at 10:49 PM.
"I may not like what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - Voltaire(1694–1778)
Yeh i got the year wrong my bad, it was 2008, not 2009 that it grew 30%
And i did read the emails, taken out of context my ass, why would anyone say they would hide the decline of tree rings, in discussion of global warming ?
And i dont care if scientists predicted heavy snowfall or not, anyone can predict it with a satelite reading in most cases, its the point that the temperatures dropped sharp and that weve had record snowfalls since records actually began in the 20s/40s, the point is its different to the official line that temps are rising and if we dont stop them with taxes that do nothing but line the world elites pockets the earth will be in danger and meh, well you know the rest.
Dendrochronlogy (the study of tree rings) was and is used to calcualte tempreture before we have reliable measurements (before anyone had a thermometer and wrote stuff down basically) So if tree rings are not following the pattern we previously measured for when we had both (the base line from which we extroplated back) then somethings wrong and that somethings needs explaining.
To go into more depth (and this is a self educated lay man talking so take it as you will) trees put on more growth in warm wet years than in hot dry years, and they also put on less growth in cold years (basically moisture lots of sunlight = lots of growth) now, we can take a piece of wood from a known date and place, and look at the tree ring pattern (say a 20 year old tree cut down yesterday in the New Forest) We know what the climate was like for those 20 years, we look at the pattern, log it, repeat this a feww hundred times for different ages, different places, (dated wooden panel paintings, ship hulls, wood framed buildings etc provide a historical basis as well) we can then use that data on wood from pre-thermometer ages, by seeing the same types of growth and having a large enough sample base, we can get an idea of the climate, even better than that we can start dating things accuratly (even if people didn't have thermometers they wrote down what the weather had been like, or big events like the years without summer after large volcanic eruptions) combine this with carbon dating and viola, a good guide to what weather had been like in the lifetime of the tree and location of that tree. Get enough samples globally from the same time frame and we have a best fit global climate for, say the middle of the C14th (you get to a point ofc when not enough wood survives to give you a good indication)
So tree ring growth patterns not following the previously constructed model means something has gone weird, some other factor is at work, THAT is what needs explaining, the decline in tree ring growth while the world was getting warmer and wetter for instance, would need explaining.
Last edited by justicar5; January 05, 2010 at 06:08 AM.
You know when I was a kid, back in the late Eighties, around here it used to be snow on the ground and genuinely cold from something like September-October to around March, or longer. These days ? I first had to start wearing more clothes than my fairly light fall/spring transitional garb around Christmas, to go with the first real cold spell and persisting snowfall of the year...
So, yeah. PROTIP: "global warming" in practice means screwy weather patterns, not consistent warm weather.
My parents live in Alaska - I'm actually in Alaska right now - and my father is in the oil business up there. It's hilarious watching these WWF commercials of the polar bears being in danger. My dad sees polar bears on the North Slope a lot. He pointed out to me an interesting fact that no one would know what the "numbers" of animals up there if it wasn't for the oil business up there. In fact, these numbers weren't known until animals were studied up there a few decades ago. So how the hell does someone figure out what a "healthy" population is?
Recently many politicians visited Alaska to see the climate changes. They went to look at the glaciers down by Seward, and of course they did this in the summer when the glaciers calve (when the edges of the glacier breaks off and falls into the water). If you watch anything on TV about global warming there is a 100% chance that you'll see a video of a glacier calving. To the uneducated, they see the huge chunks of ice falling into the ocean as a sure sign of global warming. This is not the case. It is a sign of warming, but only the warming of the summer. Glaciers whose tongues touch the ocean will calve every single summer. It's what they do. Yes, the glaciers - but not all of them - are retreating fast, but they've been retreating since an event in Earth's history known as the Ice Age (starring Denis Leary). So, for thousands of years glaciers have been retreating, and for every summer of every year of those thousands of years, glaciers have calved.
Does anyone remember when there was a big hubbub about the caribou populations in Alaska, because of the oil companies' evil, environmentally destructive projects? Well, the caribou up here love the pipeline up here and their numbers are huge. Jesus, I even eat reindeer meat on pizza...
I have six inches of global warming outside right now and a temp of -10 deg C.
"If a man has a tame white bear, then he is to handle it in the same way as a dog and similarly pay for damages it does." Grágás, the Icelandic book of Laws
I love how people say "Look! Snow! See, global warming is fake!" If only all clear problems were so easy to dismiss. Eh, maybe they are for some people.
Nevermind that this decade was literally the hottest ever recorded.
Nevermind that so much arctic ice has melted that it's sparked an entire geo-political crisis over shipping and natural resources in the previously un-navigable Northeastern Passage. I'm pretty sure that if Russian fisherman and merchants are looking at the situation and going "WTF?" it's a bit more pertinent than some guy looking out his window at some snow.
So... at worst the ice is unchanging since roughly 1979. What's all this crap about accelerating melting ice caps?
Sure, if you can call a million square kilometers "unchanging." We'll just ignore the melting going on in the Himalayas and other mountain ranges.
It looks to be within the standard deviation, so yes it's unchanging. The world is an awfully big place.
Sure I've been called a xenophobe, but the truth is Im not. I honestly feel that America is the best country and all other countries aren't as good. That used to be called patriotism.
It looks to be within the standard deviation, so yes it's unchanging. The world is an awfully big place.
While you go on and on about standard deviation you haven't discussed what said standard deviation actually is. You've just ranted about how it's within it. Back up your statement.
One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
-Neil deGrasse Tyson
Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.
While you go on and on about standard deviation you haven't discussed what said standard deviation actually is. You've just ranted about how it's within it. Back up your statement.
I wiki linked it. It's the + or - 3 points that the president gets with his polling numbers.
Sure I've been called a xenophobe, but the truth is Im not. I honestly feel that America is the best country and all other countries aren't as good. That used to be called patriotism.
Im in Beijing at the moment and i'd kill for some global warming right about now. Its 10pm and already minus 14 degrees (Celsius of course). The snow dump here on the weekend was the biggest in 50+ years. It was absolutely amazing.
EDIT: I am well aware that local Beijing weather has nothing to do with global warming. I just wanted to be involved.
Last edited by Dr Zoidberg; January 05, 2010 at 08:50 AM.
Young lady, I am an expert on humans. Now pick a mouth, open it and say "brglgrglgrrr"!
Except it's not unchanging for the reasons that I just enumerated, so thoughtfully ignored in favor of useless patronizing.
Again it's standard error, it's noise, it's movement with no discernable pattern. If it were't it would be outside of that confidence interval but it's not. God damn people, did they quit teaching statistics in school?
Sure I've been called a xenophobe, but the truth is Im not. I honestly feel that America is the best country and all other countries aren't as good. That used to be called patriotism.
Again it's standard error, it's noise, it's movement with no discernable pattern. If it were't it would be outside of that confidence interval but it's not. God damn people, did they quit teaching statistics in school?
Did they quit teaching reading comprehension?
Nevermind that so much arctic ice has melted that it's sparked an entire geo-political crisis over shipping and natural resources in the previously un-navigable Northeastern Passage. I'm pretty sure that if Russian fisherman and merchants are looking at the situation and going "WTF?" it's a bit more pertinent than some guy looking out his window at some snow.
What a year for global warming.
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, 
Originally Posted by Erlinggra
who's making this mass 
We'll just ignore the melting going on in the Himalayas and other mountain ranges.
