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    Default After Americans Visit, Uganda Weighs Death for Gays

    Pretty sure it belongs here

    KAMPALA, Uganda — Last March, three American evangelical Christians, whose teachings about “curing” homosexuals have been widely discredited in the United States, arrived here in Uganda’s capital to give a series of talks.

    The theme of the event, according to Stephen Langa, its Ugandan organizer, was “the gay agenda — that whole hidden and dark agenda” — and the threat homosexuals posed to Bible-based values and the traditional African family.
    For three days, according to participants and audio recordings, thousands of Ugandans, including police officers, teachers and national politicians, listened raptly to the Americans, who were presented as experts on homosexuality. The visitors discussed how to make gay people straight, how gay men often sodomized teenage boys and how “the gay movement is an evil institution” whose goal is “to defeat the marriage-based society and replace it with a culture of sexual promiscuity.”
    Now the three Americans are finding themselves on the defensive, saying they had no intention of helping stoke the kind of anger that could lead to what came next: a bill to impose a death sentence for homosexual behavior.
    One month after the conference, a previously unknown Ugandan politician, who boasts of having evangelical friends in the American government, introduced the Anti-Homosexuality Bill of 2009, which threatens to hang homosexuals, and, as a result, has put Uganda on a collision course with Western nations.
    Donor countries, including the United States, are demanding that Uganda’s government drop the proposed law, saying it violates human rights, though Uganda’s minister of ethics and integrity (who previously tried to ban miniskirts) recently said, “Homosexuals can forget about human rights.”
    The Ugandan government, facing the prospect of losing millions in foreign aid, is now indicating that it will back down, slightly, and change the death penalty provision to life in prison for some homosexuals. But the battle is far from over.
    Instead, Uganda seems to have become a far-flung front line in the American culture wars, with American groups on both sides, the Christian right and gay activists, pouring in support and money as they get involved in the broader debate over homosexuality in Africa.
    “It’s a fight for their lives,” said Mai Kiang, a director at the Astraea Lesbian Foundation for Justice, a New York-based group that has channeled nearly $75,000 to Ugandan gay rights activists and expects that amount to grow.
    The three Americans who spoke at the conference — Scott Lively, a missionary who has written several books against homosexuality, including “7 Steps to Recruit-Proof Your Child”; Caleb Lee Brundidge, a self-described former gay man who leads “healing seminars”; and Don Schmierer, a board member of Exodus International, whose mission is “mobilizing the body of Christ to minister grace and truth to a world impacted by homosexuality” — are now trying to distance themselves from the bill.
    “I feel duped,” Mr. Schmierer said, arguing that he had been invited to speak on “parenting skills” for families with gay children. He acknowledged telling audiences how homosexuals could be converted into heterosexuals, but he said he had no idea some Ugandans were contemplating the death penalty for homosexuality.
    “That’s horrible, absolutely horrible,” he said. “Some of the nicest people I have ever met are gay people.”
    Mr. Lively and Mr. Brundidge have made similar remarks in interviews or statements issued by their organizations. But the Ugandan organizers of the conference admit helping draft the bill, and Mr. Lively has acknowledged meeting with Ugandan lawmakers to discuss it. He even wrote on his blog in March that someone had likened their campaign to “a nuclear bomb against the gay agenda in Uganda.” Later, when confronted with criticism, Mr. Lively said he was very disappointed that the legislation was so harsh.
    Human rights advocates in Uganda say the visit by the three Americans helped set in motion what could be a very dangerous cycle. Gay Ugandans already describe a world of beatings, blackmail, death threats like “Die Sodomite!” scrawled on their homes, constant harassment and even so-called correctional rape.
    “Now we really have to go undercover,” said Stosh Mugisha, a gay rights activist who said she was pinned down in a guava orchard and raped by a farmhand who wanted to cure her of her attraction to girls. She said that she was impregnated and infected with H.I.V., but that her grandmother’s reaction was simply, “ ‘You are too stubborn.’ ”
    Despite such attacks, many gay men and lesbians here said things had been getting better for them before the bill, at least enough to hold news conferences and publicly advocate for their rights. Now they worry that the bill could encourage lynchings. Already, mobs beat people to death for infractions as minor as stealing shoes.
    “What these people have done is set the fire they can’t quench,” said the Rev. Kapya Kaoma, a Zambian who went undercover for six months to chronicle the relationship between the African anti-homosexual movement and American evangelicals.
    Mr. Kaoma was at the conference and said that the three Americans “underestimated the homophobia in Uganda” and “what it means to Africans when you speak about a certain group trying to destroy their children and their families.”
    “When you speak like that,” he said, “Africans will fight to the death.”
    Uganda is an exceptionally lush, mostly rural country where conservative Christian groups wield enormous influence. This is, after all, the land of proposed virginity scholarships, songs about Jesus playing in the airport, “Uganda is Blessed” bumper stickers on Parliament office doors and a suggestion by the president’s wife that a virginity census could be a way to fight AIDS.
    During the Bush administration, American officials praised Uganda’s family-values policies and steered millions of dollars into abstinence programs.
    Uganda has also become a magnet for American evangelical groups. Some of the best known Christian personalities have recently passed through here, often bringing with them anti-homosexuality messages, including the Rev. Rick Warren, who visited in 2008 and has compared homosexuality to pedophilia. (Mr. Warren recently condemned the anti-homosexuality bill, seeking to correct what he called “lies and errors and false reports” that he played a role in it.)
    Many Africans view homosexuality as an immoral Western import, and the continent is full of harsh homophobic laws. In northern Nigeria, gay men can face death by stoning. Beyond Africa, a handful of Muslim countries, like Iran and Yemen, also have the death penalty for homosexuals. But many Ugandans said they thought that was going too far. A few even spoke out in support of gay people.
    “I can defend them,” said Haj Medih, a Muslim taxi driver with many homosexual customers. “But I fear the what? The police, the government. They can arrest you and put you in the safe house, and for me, I don’t have any lawyer who can help me.”
    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/04/wo...uganda.html?hp


    Good job Americans? We put our nose in everything it seems.

  2. #2
    Dr Zoidberg's Avatar A Medical Corporation
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    Default Re: After Americans Visit, Uganda Weighs Death for Gays

    Not American's per se, just three misguided individuals. Lets not blame an entire society for the actions of a few individuals.

    “That’s horrible, absolutely horrible,” he said. “Some of the nicest people I have ever met are gay people.”
    Spoke like a true homophobe who has been caught out....
    Young lady, I am an expert on humans. Now pick a mouth, open it and say "brglgrglgrrr"!

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    Default Re: After Americans Visit, Uganda Weighs Death for Gays

    After American Evangelicals Poison The Soul Of A Nation, The Dude Weighs Death For The Religiously Obsessed.
    I have approximate answers and possible beliefs, and different degrees of certainty about different things, but I’m not absolutely sure of anything, and many things I don’t know anything about. But I don’t have to know an answer. I don’t feel frightened by not knowing.
    - Richard Feynman's words. My atheism.

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    Default Re: After Americans Visit, Uganda Weighs Death for Gays

    Quote Originally Posted by Ballin Colin View Post

    Good job Americans? We put our nose in everything it seems.
    OHH i'm sorry, i should've stopped them when i had the chance now i must deal with depression as this is all my fault along with the entire nation

  5. #5

    Default Re: After Americans Visit, Uganda Weighs Death for Gays

    Please, I wasn't blaming the whole of the U.S. - which would include myself - for things like this. Yes, it was three misguided individuals but I think it is interesting they are from the states and not some other country. Don't be stupid, I worded it poorly. My statement was merely noting my dismay that they are in fact American evangelicals...the best kind of course

    Anyway, their nationality really has nothing to do with the discussion. I guess everyone is ok with death penalty or life in prison for gays there because of an aggressive influence from religion - or at least several representatives of it? (again religion is not to blame here, it's those 3 guys with a wrong take on it)

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    Copperknickers II's Avatar quaeri, si sapis
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    Default Re: After Americans Visit, Uganda Weighs Death for Gays

    Of course i understand there are lots of nutters around and we can't hold their home countries entirely responsible, but... a lot of Americans are quick to insult Africans and Muslims. I seriously did not know that people in the USA could be quite that ignorant. I don't notice too many Europeans preaching death to gays in Africa, also, which is interesting.
    A new mobile phone tower went up in a town in the USA, and the local newspaper asked a number of people what they thought of it. Some said they noticed their cellphone reception was better. Some said they noticed the tower was affecting their health.

    A local administrator was asked to comment. He nodded sagely, and said simply: "Wow. And think about how much more pronounced these effects will be once the tower is actually operational."

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    Default Re: After Americans Visit, Uganda Weighs Death for Gays

    Quote Originally Posted by Copperknickers II View Post
    Of course i understand there are lots of nutters around and we can't hold their home countries entirely responsible, but... a lot of Americans are quick to insult Africans and Muslims. I seriously did not know that people in the USA could be quite that ignorant. I don't notice too many Europeans preaching death to gays in Africa, also, which is interesting.
    muslim people over here that have been to europe have always been disrespected and overheard being insulted. over here in America people leave them alone, viewing a person of another race/religion IS normal 'round here...

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    Default Re: After Americans Visit, Uganda Weighs Death for Gays

    see
    this is why i am against evangelising and missionaries
    these :wub:s should be nailed to a cross

  9. #9

    Default Re: After Americans Visit, Uganda Weighs Death for Gays

    Quote Originally Posted by Exarch View Post
    see
    this is why i am against evangelising and missionaries
    these :wub:s should be nailed to a cross
    yeah, missionary gets boring real fast...
    Optio, Legio I Latina

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    Default Re: After Americans Visit, Uganda Weighs Death for Gays

    Quote Originally Posted by Boyar Son View Post
    muslim people over here that have been to europe have always been disrespected and overheard being insulted. over here in America people leave them alone, viewing a person of another race/religion IS normal 'round here...
    I suggest you come to Europe for a visit, it will be most enlightening for you. Or did you forget that the Imperial period centred around Europe and therefore Britain, France, Spain and also Italy, Germany, Holland, Denmark and the Balkans are crawling with people of all different ethnic backgrounds, more than you could even imagine in the USA where poor black people are 'left alone' in ghettos.
    Last edited by Copperknickers II; January 04, 2010 at 05:18 PM.
    A new mobile phone tower went up in a town in the USA, and the local newspaper asked a number of people what they thought of it. Some said they noticed their cellphone reception was better. Some said they noticed the tower was affecting their health.

    A local administrator was asked to comment. He nodded sagely, and said simply: "Wow. And think about how much more pronounced these effects will be once the tower is actually operational."

  11. #11
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    Default Re: After Americans Visit, Uganda Weighs Death for Gays

    Quote Originally Posted by Copperknickers II View Post
    I suggest you come to Europe for a visit, it will be most enlightening for you. Or did you forget that the Imperial period centred around Europe and therefore Britain, France, Spain and also Italy, Germany, Holland, Denmark and the Balkans are crawling with people of all different ethnic backgrounds, more than you could even imagine in the USA where poor black people live in ghettos.
    hear, hear
    QFT

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    Default Re: After Americans Visit, Uganda Weighs Death for Gays

    Quote Originally Posted by Copperknickers II View Post
    I suggest you come to Europe for a visit, it will be most enlightening for you. Or did you forget that the Imperial period centred around Europe and therefore Britain, France, Spain and also Italy, Germany, Holland, Denmark and the Balkans are crawling with people of all different ethnic backgrounds, more than you could even imagine in the USA where poor black people are 'left alone' in ghettos.
    copper... if you're going to blatantly tell me false 'facts' then don't even reply to me. i don't buy your about europe being nice to immigrants, after how some muslim friends been treated over there, i should call you a liar (but TWC rules says i cant so i won't). not to mention a chart of ethnic populations of europe compared to America calls you a fibber too...

    i can't even imagine how you think USA isn't more mutli-cultural than europe, boy i wish i could call people liars on TWC...

    @exarch: don't call things the truth when you know so little about them.
    Last edited by Boyar Son; January 04, 2010 at 05:37 PM.

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    Acco's Avatar Дијана
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    Default Re: After Americans Visit, Uganda Weighs Death for Gays

    Well, on the bright side, at least Uganda won't be the target of those nasty "God hates [insert country here]" movements perpetrated by Fred Phelps.

    Quote Originally Posted by Copperknickers II View Post
    Or did you forget that the Imperial period centred around Europe and therefore Britain, France, Spain and also Italy, Germany, Holland, Denmark and the Balkans are crawling with people of all different ethnic backgrounds
    Don't forget about Switzerland...
    На Запад масивно сиви облаци
    Од Исток сонце и вистина излези
    Macedonia

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    Default Re: After Americans Visit, Uganda Weighs Death for Gays

    Quote Originally Posted by Acco View Post
    Don't forget about Switzerland...
    dont even bother with copper. anybody who has the same opinion with him on this is truly ing lost and far from reality.

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    Mr. Scott's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: After Americans Visit, Uganda Weighs Death for Gays

    Quote Originally Posted by Copperknickers II View Post
    Of course i understand there are lots of nutters around and we can't hold their home countries entirely responsible, but... a lot of Americans are quick to insult Africans and Muslims. I seriously did not know that people in the USA could be quite that ignorant. I don't notice too many Europeans preaching death to gays in Africa, also, which is interesting.
    Yeah, cause Europeans definitely aren't racist at all towards Muslims.

    Americans are ignorant about the world but they don't hate the world (except iran, north korea, and sometimes france)

    Most Americans just feel that the mid-east and Africa is backwards and it sorta is....
    “When my information changes, I alter my conclusions.” ― John Maynard Keynes

  16. #16

    Default Re: After Americans Visit, Uganda Weighs Death for Gays

    a lot of Americans are quick to insult Africans and Muslims.
    Prove it.

    Or, if you refuse, you open the door for anyone to just make exclamations with no backing. For instance. Jews are quick to drink the blood of wounded Palestinians.

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    Copperknickers II's Avatar quaeri, si sapis
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    Default Re: After Americans Visit, Uganda Weighs Death for Gays

    A new mobile phone tower went up in a town in the USA, and the local newspaper asked a number of people what they thought of it. Some said they noticed their cellphone reception was better. Some said they noticed the tower was affecting their health.

    A local administrator was asked to comment. He nodded sagely, and said simply: "Wow. And think about how much more pronounced these effects will be once the tower is actually operational."

  18. #18

    Default Re: After Americans Visit, Uganda Weighs Death for Gays

    This came up a while ago, and its rather....tenuous, to call this a cause and effect.

    Its Uganda thats messed up here.
    "When I die, I want to die peacefully in my sleep, like Fidel Castro, not screaming in terror, like his victims."

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  19. #19
    Nevins's Avatar Semper Gumby
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    Default Re: After Americans Visit, Uganda Weighs Death for Gays

    Ethnic makeup of the UK

    So the UK is 92.1% white, while the US is 73.1% white. Far more diverse over there in Europe, eh?
    Client of the honorable Gertrudius!

  20. #20
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    Default Re: After Americans Visit, Uganda Weighs Death for Gays

    God my blood pressure....must resist..violent thoughts...not to mention we're talking about entire europe here that has a higher population than the USA

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7559996.stm

    Minority set to be majority in near future



    copperknickers trolled me i think, nobody would say something HUURR DURRR like that. unless they were intentionally being ignorant of the truth for the sake of argument.

    EDIT: oh look coppers ran away.
    Last edited by Boyar Son; January 04, 2010 at 06:10 PM.

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