Lore Battles

**kozakk** · January 04, 2010, 05:13 AM

Hey all, i just tried playing the warhammer mod, and though i could not actually play for long due to CTDs an interesting thing happened. When i was playing as the elves and after the turn end my screen moved to an area near my expedition fort where an army of evil (whatever the hell they are) came to attack and my defenders appeared to meet them triggering a battle that apparently is part of the lore.

Now i was thinking could not the exact same mechanism be used to trigger say the battle of Helms deep, or any other notable battle from LOTR.

Lets say you are playing as elves, rohan, or isenguard. If all three of these factions are alive at the time Helms deep is to take place, and if rohan holds Hornburg at this time, and of course if the player is one of these 3 factions. Then a lore acurate army of rohan, some elves on the outside (they will have to get into the city before isenguard attacks on the battle map) and an army of uruk hai could spawn next to Hornburg triggering a battle.

If the warhammer guys can do it there must be a script out there.

I was also thinking about the Rusichi mod and the missions they have, like suddenly at the beginning of a turn your screen also flies over to a Rus army under Igor in the East, it gives a brief description of Igors campaign against the cumans, and gives you a mission to break the Cumans (meaning take 3 of their villages) and if you do you get a sizable reward.

Could not a similar thing be done for say gondor or rohan and the orcish assault on minas tiruth. If gondor holds minas tiruth and mordor holds osgiliath at the time this battle should take place then 2 or 2 and 1/2 or how ever many stacks of mordor, and 1 stack of harad spawns next to minas tiruth. and some gondorian units spawn in the city while a rohan army spawns not far beyond the mountains. As rohan and gondor the mission is to hold minas tiruth for say 5-10 turns whatever would be appropriate. While the mordor stacks would be scripted to attack it. And if you are mordor your mission is to take the city in 5 turns, while the gondorian army would be scripted to stay in the city and the rohan army would be scripted to stand right next to it so they would be present on the battlefield if you attack as mordor.

Anyway just an idea. Let me know what you think, and if this is imposible.

Cheers

**Lordinquisitor** · January 04, 2010, 05:58 AM

So you talk about lore accurate battles and you want elves to take part in the siege of helms deep?

**kozakk** · January 04, 2010, 06:28 AM

Originally Posted by Lordinquisitor

So you talk about lore accurate battles and you want elves to take part in the siege of helms deep?

Ok well i was referring to the film, as i have not read the books. But i do recall reading something in the Tolkien general discussion about elves not being at helms deep so i apologies for the mistake.

Nonetheless that is just a detail i was putting forth a general idea.

**Lordinquisitor** · January 04, 2010, 07:04 AM

Yes i know, it just amused me a bit.

Your idea is certainly acceptable.. But i don`t really see the need of it. Besides, such scripted battles would be quite unrealistic sometimes because every campaign is different. For example, how could Isengard besiege Helms deep if all that remains of it is one little dunlending settlement?

This game plays in tolkiens world, but doesn`t follow the events in Lotr.. This would force the campaign in one direction while requiring overly complicated scripts for every possible situation.

**kozakk** · January 05, 2010, 09:41 PM

Yes every campaign is different and certainly it would not make sense in some cases to have a certain battle happen. So to avoid this you could have more required conditions for a triggers, such as Isenguard owning Isenguard in order for battle to take place.

But i would even concede that maybe its not a good idea to have scripted battles per say, but spawning a force and giving a mission to give the player the option to do a lore accurate battle and consequently get a reward, or divert those troops to more important goals.

For instance sticking to the Helms deep example, when the time comes when Isenguard attached helms deep. If both Isenguard and Rohan are still around, if Isenguard holds Isenguard and Rohan holds hornburg, then an Uruk-hai army appears somewhere between the two strongholds. As isenguard you get a brief event such as Saruman marches on Helms deep, with a brief description on what happened. And you get a missio that says take Hornburg within 5 turns (the garrison Script can serve as the defense), with a reward of 20 000 or some other incentive. So now you have the option of following the lore going forward with the attack and playing out a Lore battle. Or you can use the troops and divert them to your High Elf front if that's what makes more sense for your situation. This is clearlly seen as Saruman can not spare forces to for an attach as he is strained on the northern front, Rohan is safe for the time being. And of course as Rohan you would get a moderate defense force in Hornburg, and the mission would be hold Hornburg for 10 turns with reward of again 20 000 or something else.

This way we stick to the total war ideal of writing your own history/lore, while giving the player a fun way of playing out the lore for a reward if he wishes.

**Twist of Cain** · January 05, 2010, 09:45 PM

While the idea in principle is not bad, why only reward those that choose to re-play the "lore events" of the game over and over?

**Legio** · January 06, 2010, 04:06 PM

Originally Posted by Lordinquisitor

Yes i know, it just amused me a bit.

Your idea is certainly acceptable.. But i don`t really see the need of it. Besides, such scripted battles would be quite unrealistic sometimes because every campaign is different. For example, how could Isengard besiege Helms deep if all that remains of it is one little dunlending settlement?

This game plays in tolkiens world, but doesn`t follow the events in Lotr.. This would force the campaign in one direction while requiring overly complicated scripts for every possible situation.

You can have a script that checks the settlements a faction owns- however such a script would be long to write and could potentially slow the game down immensely.

**Nazgûl Killer** · January 06, 2010, 07:23 AM

Originally Posted by Lordinquisitor

So you talk about lore accurate battles and you want elves to take part in the siege of helms deep?

Uh... The elves were at Helm's Deep, sent by Elrond with the blessing of Galadriel (More like urging, but no matter). So yes, in order to have a lore-accurate battle you need to have Haldir with a bunch of Elves there.

**Ellin Athinaios** · January 06, 2010, 07:25 AM

Originally Posted by Nazgûl Killer

Uh... The elves were at Helm's Deep, sent by Elrond with the blessing of Galadriel (More like urging, but no matter). So yes, in order to have a lore-accurate battle you need to have Haldir with a bunch of Elves there.

No, the elves were not at Helm's Deep. That only happened in the movie, with the blessing of Peter Jackson.