Difficulty: SS vs Vanilla

[Saint_of_Battle]

Hello internets,

I formated my PC and cant find my Kingdoms expansion to play SS, so im forced to play the lame vanilla. But after playing for a while some campaigns, the following question occured:

Which is more difficult? Vanilla (un-patched, un-everything) or SS (6.2 compilation)?

In vanilla, you get MEGATONS of Rebels, (half stack, in 1100 they have armored swords, chivalric knights), no stable alliances, leaving you vulnerable almost to everyone, anytime, bad reputation, income, merchants are useless.


In SS, its the opposite, the AI is quite difficult, but its satisfying...

Your opinion gents?

[Anaatti]

But in Vanilla, you can overrun everyone very easily but in SS, not possible.

[Rolling Thunder]

SS. By 1100 in Vanilla, the Byzantine Empire owns most of the known world. By 1100 in SS, the Byzantine Empire owns most of Hungary and two cities in Asia Minor*.


*The Hungarians went psychotic and attacked my fortress at Sophia. So I crushed them.

[Santeri]

I think SS with with latest rr/rc is easier than vanilla MTW2. SS is just more rational as vanilla is something else

[cuo]

Protip:

Install SS 4.1. It works without Kingdoms.

[Chyeaaaa111]

SS is definately harder (and better). With the latest RR/RC and BYG's mod, its truly hard and a masterpiece

[Saint_of_Battle]

Yea, SS is a masterpiece, especially with the fixed RR, its now man-to-man, no uberarmies. But what pisses me off mostly in Vanilla, is that you cant get a good alliance, you can expect them to attack you in a few turns, relations degrade very fast (if you even manage ta raise them to a satisfying level). Its true, you can overrun the enemy very quickly, but, if youre France for example, or HRE, if everybody attacks you due to the Loved up diplomacy, you get overrun quickly.

That wont happen in SS, and pretty much this is the main point of the arguement, because of that, is it easier or harder?

[JorisofHolland]

SS is way harder than vanilla! In vanilla I never get past the first 20 turns out of boredom, I'm overpowered too soon. In 6.2 (I still can't get RR/RC working) I always fight till turn 40-50 or so. That should say enough.

[threealls]

I played with ss 6.1 installed with rr-rc compilation ticked and supply system removed..it's so easy on VH/VH setting..playing as turks I easily took all of anatolia..I took byzantine castles but they never attacked me..they just sat around..other nations also seemed quite passive..I played 30 turns and just me and byzantium and moors and some christian factions were at war..no war at central and eastern europa at all..my treasury was also in very good condition, from the very beginning I had no problem with meeting my army expenses from the poor anatolian regions( approximately 2k florins of net gain each turn) ..I expected Khawerzmshahs or Cumans to attack me while I collected all my soldiers in the west but they were just enjoying peaceful life..and after 30 turns, I left the game because it was much easier than vanilla..I don't know if this is due to the removal of supply system..I just don't like supply feature of the mod..

now I am downloading 6.2 version..it's said that it is much more difficult than 6.1..

[Lord Derfel]

I have not played vanilla for almost 2 years. From what I remember the campaigns would all end up the same. I would control the west and the mongols would control the east until the Timurids came. Also I remember the ai spaming stacks of spear militia, so in 1400 when my armies consisted of elite quality troops the ai would still be throwing stacks of spear militia at me. The only thing I miss about vanila is being able to go the Americas, that is pretty much the only thing about vanila that was good in my opinion.

[Saint_of_Battle]

Yea Joris, Im playing England in vanilla . Turn 55, have Citadels with Elite Infantry/Bows fighting French stacks of Town militia, everyone betrayed me, im too uber, hitting End Turn every 20 seconds. I guess its either you manage to set up to a steady pace or not, in order to win or lose. SS is has a more cunning ai. Alliances do count, as long as i have played, you dont fight often, but when you do, you get in very deep man...

[threealls]

Yea Joris, Im playing England in vanilla . Turn 55, have Citadels with Elite Infantry/Bows fighting French stacks of Town militia, everyone betrayed me, im too uber, hitting End Turn every 20 seconds. I guess its either you manage to set up to a steady pace or not, in order to win or lose. SS is has a more cunning ai. Alliances do count, as long as i have played, you dont fight often, but when you do, you get in very deep man...

when I play with HRE in vanilla, I fight against french, milan, denmark and possibly hungary and venice at the same time..this is why vanilla is more difficult than ss6.1.. I installed 6.2 for more difficult game but I uninstalled it again because I couldn't distinguish my castles from my cities as turks due to the new castle-city models..now, I installed ss6.1 with BGRIII+RR ticked..I played 10 turns now, and AI seems pretty active (not any war yet) I hope that this will be real challenge..

[Rolling Thunder]

when I play with HRE in vanilla, I fight against french, milan, denmark and possibly hungary and venice at the same time..this is why vanilla is more difficult than ss6.1.. I installed 6.2 for more difficult game but I uninstalled it again because I couldn't distinguish my castles from my cities as turks due to the new castle-city models..now, I installed ss6.1 with BGRIII+RR ticked..I played 10 turns now, and AI seems pretty active (not any war yet) I hope that this will be real challenge..

Basically....you prefer the mechanics of vanilla? Fair enough, but that dosen't change the fact that SS is harder...though I agree with you on 6.2. It's actually easier than 6.1

[Saint_of_Battle]

I forgot to mention something: SS has NO Inquisitors, the piety boost is kinda useless now, lol

[JorisofHolland]

In vanilla I'm overpowered by turn 20. As England I hold all of British Isles, (almost) all of France and many other lands are direct or indirect under my control. At that stage, I usually get bored and quit.

[threealls]

In vanilla I'm overpowered by turn 20. As England I hold all of British Isles, (almost) all of France and many other lands are direct or indirect under my control. At that stage, I usually get bored and quit.

in vanilla, it is very easy to play with the scots or the english after you take the island..so, england shouldn't be criteria for measuring diffuculty of vanilla game..you gain huge money from trade and expand from your citadel in caen..simple and easy strategy..

for turks, yeah in vanilla I took anatolia and constaninople without much effort (as was in 6.1)..but when I began to fight against hungarians and venice then it is quite difficult..while I could produce poor sipahi cavalries ( kapıkulu is not available yet) they produce very strong cavalry and infantry units(their experience and blacksmith level is also higher than me)..(I play with autoresolve to make it harder )..so, it is quite difficult to expand in balkans considering that there is no alliance system in vanilla..venice, hungary, hre all of them attack you.

in vanilla, generally after 20 turns, I have been fighting against byzantines, egypt and hungarians plus crusades against antioch..in ss 6.1 after 20 turns I have been fighting against byzantines alone and they just sat around and watched their castles taken by turks..

[JorisofHolland]

No it's not. Try the HRE, Late Era, Hard or Very Hard. You start excommunicated, at war with the Pope and with terrible relations with your neighbours.

[Tidybeard]

I normally play Vanilla on N/N (I'm pretty useless at these TW games but enjoy them, it's the right difficulty setting for me to win without it being ridiculously easy - even though N/N is probably stupidly easy for most people here). Is SS 6.1 N/N difficulty more-or-less the same as Vanilla? I've just started a campaign as The Moors on this setting on SS 6.1 and am curious to find out if I'll fair roughly equally or will I be routed off the map after turn 50?

[JorisofHolland]

N/N should probalby be M/M? (Medium/Medium, I don't know what an N would be)

No, you won't be swept of the map (at least, I wasn't on VH/VH 6.2 R4, which makes thing quite a bit more though)

[Tidybeard]

Yeah, sorry, N/N is "Normal/Normal" i.e. Medium, don't know why I used that one!