"Fire by Rank"

[Tim_Ward]

Was Rank Fire, the key military technology in ETW, a real thing? I've never found anywhere that talks about real history talking about 'fire by rank' or suchlike.

[43rdFoot]

Not that I know of. I doubt it existed anywhere other than on paper either. It is just too demanding on anybody facing the stress of actual combat. There are records of British infantry, arguably the most well trained troops in the world in fire discipline, being unable to maintain solid volleys past the 2nd shot. The first shot was always the most effective, but by the 3rd fire discipline would break down into nothing but individual pot shots. I find it hard to believe a group of infantry would ever be able to maintain the fire demonstrated by the in game soldiers after more than one volley.

[Hannover]

Alas I only have reference material to American (both Colonial and Republic) and British Manuals of Arms with a limited knowledge on German (mostly Prussian).
Line Infantry drill was mostly based on the Prussian Model.
One Paticular Manual of Exercise that may intrest you is, bear with me, paticular long titles (which is common place in the time period),
Manual of Exercise, Evolutions, Manoeuvers & c. To be Observed and Followed by the Militia of the Province of New York: With Some RULES and REGULATIONS for Their IMPROVEMENT; & c. And An Explanatory PLATE.
By Colonel Guy Johnson dated from 1773

Regulations for the Order And Discipline of The Troops Of The United States.
By Baron von Steuben

Pickering's Plan for the Discipline of the Militia,
by Thomas Pickering

Firing by rank was common, front rank taking a knee while the man behind him would press his knee into the small of the back of said man. While the man behind him would put his firelock over the 2nd ranks left shoulder.
Common orders of the day were first rank kneel,
2nd and 3rd rank come up
1st rank fire
1st rank reload
2nd rank fire
2nd rank reload
3rd rank fire
3rd rank reload
1st rank fire
1st rank reload
etc. etc.

[Tim_Ward]

So, that's like the rank fire in empire, except they don't do the kneel/stand/kneel/stand thing?

[Hannover]

somewhat but I have never seen three ranks firing in ETW nor do they really even use 18th c. marching orders, ETW is really a bad representation for the use of 18thc. tactics. No wheeling, no open columns, no firing by divisions or paltoons, no passage of defile, no withdrawing except in skirmish mode, they do have advance but not a withdraw how is it possible to enflide ones enemies, a regiment is really made of two or more companies, and up to I believe twenty compinies but the standard was eight. Up until the 1780's there was a grenadier and a light company with each regiment flanking on the wings. No Pioneers.
The rank and file are really screwed up the Capt was to the far right facing and a Lieutant to the far left facing.

[43rdFoot]

Does anyone have any primary accounts of fire by rank actually used in battle? I have doubts that it was in any way actually practical in combat.

[emperorpenguin]

It was used in battle but as others have said, maintaining that level of discipline beyond the first few volleys was nigh impossible. Once smoke begins to obscure things and men get panicked it almost always devolved into "fire at will". Fire by rank didn't work like in the game however (kneel, kneel, stand) but as Hannover explained above. Platoon fire became the prefered method for Britain and Prussia, France accepted firing at will as being more realistic.

[Hannover]

As stated in the book Brown Bess and Redcoats the men of the regiment feared the Sergeant with his halberd more than they feared the enemy.

"Drill drill drill more drill that will keep these farming bastards in line during a fight." von Stueben through aids. He had to have the commands translated from German to French from French to English.

[userstupidname]

fire by rank no never really heard of however platoon fire now that is what i mostly hear, it being used first in the 30th years war under Gustav II Adolphus.


At least according to wikipedia, my illustrated history book and several books written about that period.

[Didz]

Was Rank Fire, the key military technology in ETW, a real thing? I've never found anywhere that talks about real history talking about 'fire by rank' or suchlike.

Nafziger describes the various firing systems employed by the warring nations in the Napoleonic War and firing by rank was certainly being practiced then, so it was probably in use earlier.

The mistake CA have made is in having the front rank fire first and then kneel down. In fact, this was tried but rapidly abandoned as too dangerous to your own troops. The problem the French discovered was that when formed in three ranks, if the first rank fired first then there was a high risk in the excitment of action that the men would anticipate the command to reload and stand up before the third rank had discharged, thus getting shot by their own comrades.

The firing sequence was therefore changed so the the rear rank fired first and could then begin reloading immediately whilst the middle and front rank fired. The front rank would fire standing up rather than kneeling and the entire sequence would restart from the rear with the rear rank firing over the shoulders of the men in front.

Other interesting facts, were that the shortest men were actually placed in the rear rank, the reason being to protect the ears of the men in front as they would hold their musket lower at the present than a tall man who would tend to be discharging his piece right next to the ear of the man in front him.

Napoleon eventually abandoned this system of firing when Larry pointed out that there were still a significant number of injuries involved in firing from three ranks, mainly caused by the men in the rear rank injuring the elbows of the men in front of them when bringing their muskets to the present. By the time of Waterloo the French had adopted a system of voluntary firing in which only the men in the first two ranks actually fired and the men in third rank were supposed to hand their loaded muskets forward to the men in the second whilst they reloaded their muskets for them.


There is a rather nice picture above of the French Imperial Guard using the new 'Voluntary Fire System'. As you can see the men in the first two ranks are firing and reloading at their own pace (all remain standing) and on the left you can see a loaded musket being passed forward from the third rank to the man in the second rank. Either that or he is passing his discharged musket to the rear for reloading.

By comparison the British were still using a platoon firing system based upon a set of five firing platoons which would fire in sequence at approximately four second intervals, either as volley's or 'by files' as directed by their platoon commanders. There would be ten platoons per battalion, and so fire usually commenced in the centre with the central platoons and flowed out towards both flanks or on the flanks and flowed in towards the centre. The men reloaded in their own time and then waited for their platoon commander to order them to fire again, this being timed to occur after the prevoius platoon in the sequence. Though the five divisions usually meant that each platoon completed their reloading just as the previous platoon fired anyway.

These firing systems probably broke down under severe stress, however, eyewitness accounts certainly confirm that they were used at least in the opening stages of a fire fight. And the French report seeing British volleys rippling back and forth along the face of their lines as each platoon fired in sequence during their opening volley's.

[Tim_Ward]

Rep for Didz for the most comprehensive answer.

[Mong]

According to Osprey the British abandoned kneeling to fire in the front rank in 1759.

[Didz]

According to Osprey the British abandoned kneeling to fire in the front rank in 1759.

Yes, the British adopted a system of staggered files instead. The second rank taking one half-step to the right and the rear rank a full step to the right, so that they could effectively fire over the shoulders of the men in front of them. The French abandoned the three rank system completely in 1791 when regulations introduced the two rank voluntary fire system I described earlier.

The Prussian Army were still using three ranks with the front rank kneeling in 1792, but the fire was delivered by whole platoons (halb-compagnien) alternately all along the line, rather than by ranks or files.

[kesa82]

On a side note ; among the British at least the textbook - ideal was to fire two volleys and charge with bayonets. But commentators of the time oft complain that in the stress of battle the two lines would just root in place and fire volley after volley into each other.

[Didz]

On a side note ; among the British at least the textbook - ideal was to fire two volleys and charge with bayonets. But commentators of the time oft complain that in the stress of battle the two lines would just root in place and fire volley after volley into each other.

The problem was that soldiers of all sides were reluctant to close with the bayonet against a steady opponent. There were a number of pretty obvious reasons for this but the two main ones were:

a) The closer you get to an enemy with a loaded musket the more likely he is to kill you.

b) Even assuming that the enemy cannot shoot you at close range, his bayonet is just as long as yours and so there is only an even chance at best that you will survive the encounter, and a pretty good chance that you will actually stab each other.

Consequently, the usual approach for the British was that they would blaze away until it was obvious that the French had had enough and were on the point of bugging out. Then the order would be given to cease fire, fix bayonets and charge to finish the job.

There were attempts at Waterloo to pre-empt this moment by trying to charge before the French turned their backs and started to fall back, but invariably the British soldiers simply advanced a few paces and when it became obvious that the French weren't going to back down they stopped and started firing again.

Even on the one occassion when a company of British and French bumped into each other by accident, the result was little more that a fencing match with the two sides batting each others bayonet points back and forth for a few minutes and then the British were allowed the fall back.

[ottomanfan]

very interesting stuff guys - id often wondered about how this fire by rank actually worked in practise...

[Jihada]

There's a lot of argument on whether eastern factions,Ottomans,Marathas etc had developed more advanced firing drills at this period. Perhaps some of you know more details.Personally I just modded janissaries and Sikh infantry to have fire by rank but I don't really know.
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=331408