Machiavelli's Discourses

[Cornelius Plautus]

I picked up a copy of Machiavelli's discourses a little while ago, and while it is a very dense book, I enjoy it greatly, and specifically, his prologue to the second book sparked my imagination and thought process.


http://www.constitution.org/mac/disclivy2.htm

The first couple of paragraphs on this page are the prologue. I found them particularly interesting, because they discuss a more philosophical than historical matter, of how people generally tend to praise the time of their youth, and condemn the time of their old age.

How true this is, and how well has it stood up through time! I see this sort of behaviour in all parts of society, from grandfathers telling teenagers to get haircuts to baby-boomers lambasting the music listened to by their children. (The latter should be taken into account specifically, because those baby boomers were criticized by their parents in turn for listening to their favorite music).

Here Machiavelli claims that he is a lover of the past, though he tries to justify himself by saying that his opinions are obvious truth, which I find hilarious, and interesting at the same time.

Anyways, I was not trying to prove a point here, but I just wanted to bring this up because I found it interesting. Good health!

[Amorphos]

Sounds interesting though i didnt read the link [sorry]. If I get you right then I would say the age old transferral of roles from one generation to another is actually changing.

Many people of my generation and the former, do not take on the roles quite so easily, I for example expect my kids to treat me as a person and I treat them as ‘little adults’, I don’t much like even being called ‘dad’ too often. self empowerment is inportant for childrens moral growth in my opinion, whereas in the old days people were just taught in parrot fashion kinda.

I think children are unique entities rather than something that belongs to me or is part of me in a more literal sense, so I guess as our understanding of how things work changes, so to will our attitudes.


good post!

[Cornelius Plautus]

Many people of my generation and the former, do not take on the roles quite so easily, I for example expect my kids to treat me as a person and I treat them as ‘little adults’, I don’t much like even being called ‘dad’ too often. self empowerment is inportant for childrens moral growth in my opinion, whereas in the old days people were just taught in parrot fashion kinda.

good post!

That's how I was raised; my parents never talked down to me, and always engaged in conversation with me (even as an infant), and as a result, I was very articulate from a young age. It's good to see that the parenting style is still alive!

Additionally, I tend to dislike those who 'get off on' having people call them titles, and raising children without teaching them to be ashamed or to think themselves lesser than others certainly seems to be an excellent and nurturing strategy!

Oh, and thanks for the compliment!

[motiv-8]

If I get you right then I would say the age old transferral of roles from one generation to another is actually changing.

Well of course it is. Historically it always has. At various times during the Roman Empire legislation had to be enacted forcing sons to follow their father's professions, because so many were simply dying out.

One of the most classical literary and, later on cinematic, plot devices has been the rebellious son turning away from his father's path.

[Amorphos]

One of the most classical literary and, later on cinematic, plot devices has been the rebellious son turning away from his father's path.

For sure, I was on about family roles more than anything, people I know generally just want to be thought of as people rather than by their roles ~ which themselves are changing and always have as you say.

Over the last few generations more than any other, labels have been stripped away, we are no longer as racist, nor do we think our bosses are superior etc, eventually this de-labelling has reached the inner circle of the family. As I was saying, a foetal cell is a unique entity, so in a sense we are all adopted! This an many other aspects of newer knowledge, makes a whole lot of difference about how we conceive of one another.

[Ó Cathasaigh]

I read The Prince a few years back and really enjoyed Machiavelli. He paints a rather grim, yet realistic picture of the world.

[Baron Thunder-ten-tronckh]

I actually picked up His Discourses on my latest trip to Canberra. I haven't read it yet - slogging through the iliad - but I have read The Prince and enjoy machiavelli. The paragraphs you've picked up here are indeed insightful. Good find, I enjoyed reading it.

It is curious to me that few around me in real life know of machiavelli, but on the internet, especially here in the philosophy forums, Machiavelli is one of the more commonly read philosophers - maybe because the size of the Prince is so small. But it does reflect the psyche of the internet I think. There is no bull-, and although opinionated, the internet paints a much more realistic and brutal reality than we experience in other media formats or even in sheltered lifestyles.

[Cornelius Plautus]

I actually picked up His Discourses on my latest trip to Canberra. I haven't read it yet - slogging through the iliad - but I have read The Prince and enjoy machiavelli. The paragraphs you've picked up here are indeed insightful. Good find, I enjoyed reading it.

It is curious to me that few around me in real life know of machiavelli, but on the internet, especially here in the philosophy forums, Machiavelli is one of the more commonly read philosophers - maybe because the size of the Prince is so small. But it does reflect the psyche of the internet I think. There is no bull-, and although opinionated, the internet paints a much more realistic and brutal reality than we experience in other media formats or even in sheltered lifestyles.

You would be surprised, without doubt. Please, read the Discourses whenever you are able; while The Prince is fascinating, it was written satirically. (Many points prove this, for example, it was written in the common language -Italian-, rather than the intellectual language -Latin-, and that Machiavelli used mythological examples rather than real examples for the Prince). The Discourses were more a reflection of Machiavelli's opinions, as they were an analysis of an ancient text (I believe the first part of Ab Urbe Condita).

[Denny Crane!]

I read the Prince and have went some way through the discourses but (perhaps due to translation) I find him overly verbose, his grammar slightly vexing and thus the reading slightly tedious even if I like the content.

[Amorphos]

Would be nice if those who have read Machiavelli could post some of their favourite quotes or other ideas from his works.
I for one havent read any of his stuff and I rarely read, so I probably wont, but a summary of meanings would be very nice.

It's good to see that the parenting style is still alive!

Indeed, I think its actually moreso these days and increasing ~ I certainly hope the trend continues.

Additionally, I tend to dislike those who 'get off on' having people call them titles, and raising children without teaching them to be ashamed or to think themselves lesser than others certainly seems to be an excellent and nurturing strategy!

Well they are empowered by small minded people claiming one-upmanship by extension, it’s the same reason as to why some people like royalty. People like power, the little people think they get more by following the ‘big man’, whilst the big man collects power from his support and the masses.

This all seams to be crashing to the ground [thankfully], and I think polititians etc will have a hard time in the future, I mean who want to listen to some dick stood on his box giving inane speeches that never actually say anything.