New Humanist/Atheist Bus Campaign

[Tankbuster]

Even though it's starting to become commonplace now for messages by non-religious groups to be used on billboards and around the world (although almost always strongly opposed by various fundamentalist groups), I find the new campaign by the British Humanist Association very interesting:



This time, it's a message that I wholeheartedly support and applaud, and I think you can figure out what it means. And why it's again going to spark a wave of controversy

So, comments?

[Helm]

It would be difficult to bring them up in such a way so that they don't end up believeing in roughly the same thing you yourself believe in.

[removeduser_487563287433]

I do support the message. A young child is no more a Christian than he is a member of the Postal Workers Union.

However, I really do not think it is appropriate to put pressure on parents to not teach their children their religion. These people only want the best for the children in the way that they understand the world, and it would be grossly intrusive to try to stop that. And after all, I am baptised and have done the church thing, and it did not stop me making my own decisions when I was old enough.

[Tankbuster]

I do support the message. A young child is no more a Christian than he is a member of the Postal Workers Union.

However, I really do not think it is appropriate to put pressure on parents to not teach their children their religion. These people only want the best for the children in the way that they understand the world, and it would be grossly intrusive to try to stop that. And after all, I am baptised and have done the church thing, and it did not stop me making my own decisions when I was old enough.

I agree.
I think the goal is clearly not to be intrusive and to stop parents from instilling values into their children (which will be partly religious values as well). Obviously parents have the right to raise their children more or less the way they want.
The merit of this message is that it sensibilises parents that there's a fine line between brainwashing and education, and that parents should be careful not to cross this.
It's the line between taking your kids to Christmas Mass on one hand, and sending them for an indoctrination week at Jesus Camp.

These lines are clear when talking about for example capitalism: parents understand the distinction between teaching their children values like freedom and brainwashing them to subscribe for Capitalist Magazine by the time they are 16.
It's just that this distinction is not clear when talking about religion, and that's what the merit is for me.

[Nietzsche]

However, I really do not think it is appropriate to put pressure on parents to not teach their children their religion. These people only want the best for the children in the way that they understand the world, and it would be grossly intrusive to try to stop that. And after all, I am baptised and have done the church thing, and it did not stop me making my own decisions when I was old enough.

This is quite possibly the most reasonable thing I have ever seen you post. +rep to you sir.

OP: Please. Stop with the nonsense. A parent has every right to raise their child as they see fit. This new ad speaks of nanny state nonsense. It's not in the interests of humanists and/or atheists to stand in the way of a parent and their child. Honestly, it's none of their god damn business. If their desire is to begin interfering with the parent/child relationship, my deep wish is they fail miserably and exposed for the meddling arrogant bastards they are.

[Helm]

Though if you're a Christian and your child dies as a non-Christian you have to deal with the the fact that as far as you're concerned they're in Hell and you'll never see them again, so that's why parents with a religious faith often like to get their children started with that faith as soon as possible. Also the reason why babies are baptised that's your insurance policy.

[removeduser_487563287433]

Yes. But they will consider saving their child's soul to be good parenting. It's not really in the same league as female genital mutiliation or anything.

[The Dude]

Absolutely 100% in support.

I've always considered religious upbringing a sort of child abuse anyway.

Though if you're a Christian and your child dies as a non-Christian you have to deal with the the fact that as far as you're concerned they're in Hell and you'll never see them again, so that's why parents with a religious faith often like to get their children started with that faith as soon as possible. Also the reason why babies are baptised that's your insurance policy.

Unfortunately that's true, and it's the whole reason behind raising a child into a certain religion in the first place. Unfortunately it's a process that will repeat itself ad infinitum unless the cycle is broken somewhere along the line. Which is precisely what must happen now. Because the atheist child who will grow up and raise children of his own will not be concerned with primitive fairytales like hell and in turn will raise children who won't be either. The world will be better off for it.

[Monarchist]

I've always considered religious upbringing a sort of child abuse anyway.

I don't think this is really useful. Let parents decide how to raise their children. Most people just ignore those silly bus slogans. A parent who sees the slogans is either already an atheist who loves them or already a religious person who is irritated by them. They never change any minds, but only add yet more fire to the polemics.

[Ciabhán]

I don't think this is really useful. Let parents decide how to raise their children. Most people just ignore those silly bus slogans. A parent who sees the slogans is either already an atheist who loves them or already a religious person who is irritated by them. They never change any minds, but only add yet more fire to the polemics.

Truth be told boyo, although the advertisement itself implies it is speaking to the parents in reality it is speaking to the children themselves much more powerfully. The ad succeeds if only one child asks their parent/s what it means. Provoking thought in the young is much more likely to succeed than asking us old folks to change.

[S.L.I.G]

Truth be told boyo, although the advertisement itself implies it is speaking to the parents in reality it is speaking to the children themselves much more powerfully. The ad succeeds if only one child asks their parent/s what it means. Provoking thought in the young is much more likely to succeed than asking us old folks to change.

Thought provoking in the young? The young dont work that way. They dont bother with abstract intellectual issues. Whatever their parents response will be will suffice cause they'd much rather go out and play at the park or whatever, than give a rats ass about a billboard.

[Tiberius Tosi]

Truth be told boyo, although the advertisement itself implies it is speaking to the parents in reality it is speaking to the children themselves much more powerfully. The ad succeeds if only one child asks their parent/s what it means. Provoking thought in the young is much more likely to succeed than asking us old folks to change.

You expect a kid like this or any other to give a flying what some billboard tells him about a concept he/she can hardly understand in the first place?

They wouldn't even know it is about religion in the first place, granted they even know religion exists or that non-religion or any other religion besides their own exists. Kids are not that smart.

For example when George of the Jungle II came out, there was a scene of CAT tractors ripping down trees, and prior to the release of the film CAT got scared that kids would associate CAT tractors with destroying the environment, so they did some studies and what they found was kids actually liked CAT better because seeing tractors rip down trees is badass and kids could care less what company it is, nor did they hardly understand the fact that CAT was making the tractors in the first place. Kids don't put two and two together.

[Helm]

Yes. But they will consider saving their child's soul to be good parenting. It's not really in the same league as female genital mutiliation or anything.

Phtsically harming a child in the name of religion is one thing but I would never tell anyone how they should be brininging up their own children, I don't see why it should be any of my business.

[removeduser_487563287433]

Phtsically harming a child in the name of religion is one thing but I would never tell anyone how they should be brininging up their own children, I don't see why it should be any of my business.

Well... I don't think it's strictly tabboo. Certainly a tricky area. I would not be impressed at anybody who did it to me, unless it was a pretty specific circumstance. If the shoe was on the other foot and some bus station preacher came up to me scaring my children about hellfire he would certainly receive a punch to the throat.

[Dr. Croccer]

I love the hypocrisy in this. As if Atheist parents don't bring up their children with some of their own beliefs. And I love how this is coming from the same group of people who supported the ''Atheist summer camp''. Even if you don't actively raise a child to follow whatever belief, it will accostum itself to your rituals and speech. Young children learn everything they now through human interaction. A child who has not experienced human speech in the first 5 years or so of it's life, will not develop speech. Children copy most of what they know through human interaction with and by their parents.

And telling parents how to treat their children is ing disgraceful. I doubt any here would support it if there was a big massive billboard stating: ''Parents! Send your children to church every sunday, or you and them will perish in the flames of eternal damnation!''

[Helm]

However I do see "atheist child" on the banner amoung others, it's fair enough if this is aimed at everyone.

[removeduser_487563287433]

Mmmm, no, I agree with Croccer. It would piss me off to have posters telling me to convert my children.

But then again this poster isn't saying that, it's saying let them choose...

This is difficult.

[Helm]

If you go to church every Sunday is it alright to drag your children along?

[removeduser_487563287433]

Yes, it is alright.

[Helm]

But it isn't really letting them decide for themselves as being exposed to religious teaching from a young age will program them to believe in that particular religion, unless they undergo a sudden radical change of faith as an adult but that's fairly rare.