Switching weapons?

[Vkkhamul]

I hear that to switch weapons you have to hold the Alt key before attacking, but most of the time it does not work.

I do realize that it only works for certain units, but do not fully understand it.

Please clarify for me

[Genius of the Restoration]

When you've got any unit that has a secondary weapon, such as a Cataphract's mace or Forester's spear when you click to attack an enemy hold down alt as you do so. The Cataphracts will still charge in with their lances before switching to maces, while the archers will change weapons and charge the selected enemy rather than shooting. Not sure if it uses both left and right alt, I use left and it works so maybe do that if you've having trouble?

Hope this helps.

[blackwatersix]

I hear that to switch weapons you have to hold the Alt key before attacking, but most of the time it does not work.

I do realize that it only works for certain units, but do not fully understand it.

Please clarify for me

This works for units that have two weapons, mainly missile units. Notice that when you hold your mouse over the enemy unit the cursor looks like a javelin. Clicking/double clicking makes the unit attack the enemy with missile weapons. (primary)

Notice also that holding ALT while holding the mouse over the enemy unit changes the cursor to a sword. This is the secondary weapon. Clicking on the enemy in this mode sends your unit to attack the enemy with the secondary weapon. For missile units this means they'll charge with swords.

[eXistenZ]

For example elephants with archers on their back.

[naphack]

Best example here is still legionaires

[Chris Death]

Best example here is still legionaires

Why? When legionaires have been used to their optimum, there were no
need for an alt-attack.

~S~ CD

[blackwatersix]

Why? When legionaires have been used to their optimum, there were no
need for an alt-attack.

~S~ CD

Because it sucks for reinforcing legion cohorts to throw pilum at a mass of struggling friends and foes. Kinda defeats the purpose of reinforcing them, causing friendly fire.

[Chris Death]

Because it sucks for reinforcing legion cohorts to throw pilum at a mass of struggling friends and foes. Kinda defeats the purpose of reinforcing them, causing friendly fire.

But then again they haven't been used at their best - throwing pillas into the backs of the enemy
line would have helped a lot more before reinforcing the melee.

Even if there were now counter arguments - the point i meant is when they have been used
to their 'optimum' there were no need for alt-attack.

~S~ CD

[|Sith| Max]

But then again they haven't been used at their best - throwing pillas into the backs of the enemy
line would have helped a lot more before reinforcing the melee.

Even if there were now counter arguments - the point i meant is when they have been used
to their 'optimum' there were no need for alt-attack.

~S~ CD

you think too much.. there are many scenario's where you do not want them to use pila.

[kylerox3221]

[|Sith| Max]

reminds me of the time a single ribault took out 3 of me lords. that was in mtw2 though.

You also forgot the scenario of running your urbans around an enemy phalanx a phalanx takes long to turn so you can charge em from about 60 degrees and they'll never put the spears down in time. you dont want to be standing still while doing that.

[HanatielHawk]

reminds me of the time a single ribault took out 3 of me lords. that was in mtw2 though.

You also forgot the scenario of running your urbans around an enemy phalanx a phalanx takes long to turn so you can charge em from about 60 degrees and they'll never put the spears down in time. you dont want to be standing still while doing that.

And the scenario that in an epic battle almost at the end you must use your cavalery skirmishers charge to drive away the enemy which is already disheartened. A cavalerycharge is a really heavy moralededucter. You don't want to get a chance of failing to drive away a hoplitebatalion because you don't use your charge into the back of the phalanx.

This is not made up, i got this once when i played with Scythia against Macedon.

[|Sith| Max]

thats not a hard match to win with Scythia. Try beating 2 30 K armies with a 15 K Scythia because they forgot to team up and then you can say you are 1337 with Scythia.

and for a 15 k Scythia a 30 k Greece with upgraded Spartans is a mean ...
more important to the topic though all melee cav get a melee bonus when you use ALT attack. especially Cataphracts since they switch to an armor piercing mace which makes them almost unbeatable to romans.

[mrblack33]

I think that's pretty useful for Praetorians as well...
Maybe the attack rate is faster...

[Chris Death]

@HanatieHawk - could it be that the biggest problem of our understanding is the difference between
multiplayer battles and campaign battles?

In campaign you want to minimize your losses - so my point of view is ok there

In multiplayer everything counts that makes you win the battle - so forget about basic or general stuff in mp - it's
more the momentum which decides the outcome of the battle.

And i don't think i made a counterargument to my own - all i tried to say is that i off course understand what you
are talking about but that it also doesn't matter since i'm talking about something in general and you are talking
about some individual situations.

@Entropy Judge - at which post did you start reading that thread?

~S~ CD

[Entropy Judge]

The first one. Considering the OP has been answered and the topic has degenerated into "should Roman infantry throw pila before entering melee?" I feel it is well within the subject matter to opine that it's better to use Archers to break formations and disregard pila against those formations. I agree with HanatielHawk that use of pila is situational and using just melee against most units is fine.

[cursedronin]

My first line is always set on auto throw pila, with my second line not.
Gotta watch out though, if unworthy enemies go first(spear warband or desert infantry or something crappy like that), I turn first line pila auto throw off aswell.

Mostly I'll go for the flanks/rear of the already engaged enemy, pretty much destroys them, especially phalanxes since they are so tightly bunched.

[HanatielHawk]

My first line is always set on auto throw pila, with my second line not.
Gotta watch out though, if unworthy enemies go first(spear warband or desert infantry or something crappy like that), I turn first line pila auto throw off aswell.

Mostly I'll go for the flanks/rear of the already engaged enemy, pretty much destroys them, especially phalanxes since they are so tightly bunched.

I prefer the second line to auto use their pila, if the first line uses them they're not prepared for the impact or the enemy underestimates the power of the first line while the second lines pila counterattacks that thought. When i'm attacking i alway's use single line and fire at will in the beginning, just to weaken the enemy's front line and then charge.
When facing phalanxes it's quite fun when u use 2 cohorts against 1 phalanx. First charge with cohort 1 from the back, they'll have to turn, then use the pila from cohort 2 to finish it and hamer them.

[HanatielHawk]

@HanatieHawk - could it be that the biggest 1- problem of our understanding is the difference between
multiplayer battles and campaign battles?

In campaign you want to minimize your losses - so my point of view is ok there

In multiplayer everything counts that makes you win the battle - so forget about basic or general stuff in mp - it's more the momentum which decides the outcome of the battle.

2- And i don't think i made a counterargument to my own - all i tried to say is that i off course understand what you are talking about, but that it also doesn't matter since i'm talking about something in general and you are talking about some individual situations.

~S~ CD

I won't mark everything in colour so I marked them with numbers.
1- Ehhhh... no because the strategy i just told you about can be usefull to as wel Campaigns as SPbattles as MP battles, don't waste all your pila because you might need them later. you need to understand that sp-battles you can waste more pila but in mp-battles things change quickly so you might need them badly!
2- Your point of view is that in order to win the battle, you need to weaken the enemy, by using all your pila so the chance is higher you'll win, even if your general charges into the enemy who're being hit by your own pila. I thought you thought this because you were ignoring Dark and my scenario's, they were typical examples of times when you don't want to use pila.
And dude, just wanted to quote this sentence:

but that it also doesn't matter since i'm talking about something in general and you are talking about some individual situations.

If i was not talking in general I wouldn't be talking about this right now and not before. I'm only using my individual mistakes and experience but also my imaginations to think up scenario's and situations why and when you don't want to use your pila.

[{GrailKnight}]

@ Christ Death, yes the shared ammunition also applies to every other missile unit.