Mary's role in the family

[basics]

Isn’t it wonderful that on a day uncertain a baby was born to a virgin just as the prophets had foretold, an event that was to turn the world outside of Judaism upside down, even beginning in that religion.

She was the betrothed of a man who on hearing of her situation was as honour, his honour as well as hers, to privaly send her away for embarrassment’s sake. He had not yet known her, so who had was only divulged by a dream.

She had been chosen by God to be the vessel in whom our Saviour and hers would be carried to manhood this being explained to her betrothed. And so it was that Joseph put his own feelings to the side to follow that which he had been given.

Technically in the Jewish system of marriage, it was not marriage until consummation, nonetheless Joseph for the time being accepted all that God, through the angel Gabriel, asked of him. Once the babe had been born nature resumed its course and other children were given in the natural course of events.

Now how do we know this to be the case? Well by the census that three beings were entered as a family, Bethlehem being Joseph’s home town. At His circumcision it was accepted that they were a family, the divine element being known only to a few persons. In other words the marriage could not be called marriage in the eyes of God and Mary a single mother, something not appropriate to the way of the Jews.

And so it was written, “ Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife : And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son : and he called His name Jesus.”

By those words we must accept that he, Joseph, did know her after the birth of Jesus. That Mary fulfilled her marital obligations as laid down by God to that separated people to give us His brothers and sisters just as it is written. It is a falsehood to suggest anything else.

And so it was that Jesus became known as the son of the carpenter, even that He was by learning through growing one of that trade Himself. It is strange that them who say that Joseph was the father of James, Jude and others from another marriage, not one of them was ever noted to be a carpenter in the tradition of father and son.

Comments please?

[Gromovnik]

The last paragraph makes no sense at all.

[basics]

" The last paragraph makes no sense at all."

Pannonius,

It makes sense in that James, Jude and the others were supposed to be children of Joseph by another marriage, that being before Mary came on the scene. But as it is written that makes no sense at all because had they been in that mould surely they would have been known as carpenters before Jesus, and Scripture would have told us so since He, Jesus, would have been following in their footsteps.

Following the order in which Scripture tells, it was Jesus that was named the son of the carpenter, his siblings probably being still too young to carry the name assuming that they did learn the trade from their father. In the course of human nature not one item said to have been made by Joseph, Jesus or the others has been preserved, even found, that men might claim to have a momento from that family.

[Jan III Sobieski]

I believe Mary (In my terms), is our mother.
BTW, Also, I'm a practicing Catholic

[basics]

" I believe Mary (In my terms), is our mother. BTW, Also, I'm a practicing Catholic."

CountDooku,

As far as I am aware there are only two places in Scripture where mother takes on the meaning you advocate and it is not to Mary that this refers. Eve is the mother of us all, Genesis and Revelation being the sources, but I could be corrected on that as I am going by memory at the moment of writing.

It could also be said that Sarah, being in type and shadow, Mary, was her mother, since through the promises given to Abraham it was Sarah's offspring to which the promises were meant. Both women were to give birth by extraordinary means yet both women needed God as their Saviour that these things came about.

Nonetheless, Scripture is quite adament that there is only one mediator between God and man, the man Jesus Christ. Indeed Mary in her song to God had this to say, Luke 1:46-49,

" And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord, and my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour. For He hath regarded the low estate of His handmaiden : for, behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed. For He that is mighty hath done to me great things ; and holy is His name."

For sure all generations know of the girl Mary but not all generations admit to what her destiny was. That she was chosen to bring God into the world as one of us is only acceptable to them that know God, yet dismissed as an impossible dream by others, some going further than that in the most derogatory way.

And if Scripture stands without interference she went on to produce brothers and sisters to Jesus, albeit by Joseph. She never held the same distinction of the male disciples because in Jewish tradition women did not carry the same weight in terms of Spiritual matters and as Paul was to lay down, women were to remain silent in church. As for the Scriptures, Mary went on into obscurity and nothing within tells of her saving anyone, nor even preaching the Gospel to any.

[lord o kelly]

As far as I am aware there are only two places in Scripture where mother takes on the meaning you advocate and it is not to Mary that this refers. Eve is the mother of us all, Genesis and Revelation being the sources, but I could be corrected on that as I am going by memory at the moment of writing.

You are forgetting while on the cross Jesus said in John 19:26-27
26When Jesus then saw His mother, and (AQ)the disciple whom He loved standing nearby, He said to His mother, "(AR)Woman, behold, your son!" 27Then He said to the disciple, "Behold, your mother!" From that hour the disciple took her into (AS)his own household.



This is one of the Points we as Catholics use when we refer to Mary as our Mother. During one of Jesus' last moments on earth, he offers his mother to not only be his mother but act as a mother for all mankind. Allowing us to reference her as a source for purity and how we should live our lives.

[Caucasus]

Muslim version.


1. Do Muslims believe he was a Messenger of One God? YES
Belief in all of the Prophets and Messengers of God is a fundamental article of faith in Islam. Thus, believing in Prophets Adam, Abraham,Jesus, Moses, and Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon them) is a requirement for anyone who calls him or herself a Muslim. A person claiming to be a Muslim who, for instance, denies the Messengership of Jesus, is not considered a Muslim.
The Quran says in reference to the status of Jesus as a Messenger:
"The Messiah (Jesus), son of Mary, was no more than a Messenger before whom many Messengers have passed away; and his mother adhered wholly to truthfulness, and they both ate food (as other mortals do). See how We make Our signs clear to them; and see where they are turning away!" (Quran 5:75).

2. Do Muslims believe he was born of a Virgin Mother? YES
Like Christians, Muslims believe Mary, Maria in Spanish, or Maryam as she is called in Arabic, was a chaste, virgin woman, who miraculously gave birth to Jesus.
"Relate in the Book the story of Mary, when she withdrew from her family, to a place in the East. She screened herself from them; then We sent to her Our spirit (angel Gabriel) and he appeared before her as a man in all respects. She said: I seek refuge from you in God Most Gracious (come not near) if you do fear God. He said: Nay, I am only a Messenger from your Lord, to announce to you the gift of a pure son. She said: How shall I have a son, when no man has ever touched me, and I am not unchaste? He said: So it will be, your Lord says: ‘That is easy for Me; and We wish to appoint him as a sign unto men and a Mercy from Us': It was a matter so decreed" (Quran 19:16-21).

3. Do Muslims believe Jesus had a miraculous birth? YES
The Quran says:
"She (Mary) said: ‘O my Lord! How shall I have a son when no man has touched me.' He (God) said: ‘So (it will be) for God creates what He wills. When He has decreed something, He says to it only: ‘Be!'- and it is" (3:47).
It should also be noted about his birth that:
"Verily, the likeness of Jesus in God's Sight is the likeness of Adam. He (God) created him from dust, then (He) said to him: ‘Be!'-and he was" (Quran 3:59).

4. Do Muslims believe Jesus spoke in the cradle? YES
"Then she (Mary) pointed to him. They said: ‘How can we talk to one who is a child in the cradle?' He (Jesus) said: ‘Verily! I am a slave of God, He has given me the Scripture and made me a Prophet; " (19:29-30).
5. Do Muslims believe he performed miracles? YES
Muslims, like Christians believe Jesus performed miracles. But these were performed by the will and permission of God, Who has power and control over all things.
"Then will God say: ‘O Jesus the son of Mary! recount My favor to you and to your mother. Behold! I strengthened you with the Holy Spirit (the angel Gabriel) so that you did speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. Behold! I taught you the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel. And behold: you make out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, by My leave, and you breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by My leave, and you heal those born blind, and the lepers by My leave. And behold! you bring forth the dead by My leave. And behold! I did restrain the children of Israel from (violence to you) when you did show them the Clear Signs, and the unbelievers among them said: ‘This is nothing but evident magic' (5:110).

6. Do Muslims believe in the Trinity? NO
Muslims believe in the Absolute Oneness of God, Who is a Supreme Being free of human limitations, needs and wants. He has no partners in His Divinity. He is the Creator of everything and is completely separate from His creation.
God says in the Quran regarding the Trinity:
"People of the Book (Jews and Christians)! Do not exceed the limits in your religion, and attribute to God nothing except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, was only a Messenger of God, and His command that He conveyed unto Mary, and a spirit from Him. So believe in God and in His Messengers, and do not say: ‘God is a Trinity.' Give up this assertion; it would be better for you. God is indeed just One God. Far be it from His glory that He should have a son. To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and in the earth. God is sufficient for a guardian" (Quran 4:171).

7. Do Muslims believe that Jesus was the son of God? NO
"Say: "God is Unique! God, the Source [of everything]. He has not fathered anyone nor was He fathered, and there is nothing comparable to Him!" (Quran 112:1-4).
The Quran also states:
"Such was Jesus, the son of Mary; it is a statement of truth, about which they vainly dispute. It is not befitting to the majesty of God, that He should beget a son. Glory be to Him! When He determines a matter, He only says to it, ‘Be' and it is" (Quran 19:34-35).

8. Do Muslims believe Jesus was killed on the cross then resurrected? NO
"“They did not kill him, nor did they crucify him, but they thought they did.” (Quran 4:156) “God lifted him up to His presence. God is Almighty, All-Wise” (Quran 4:157)

[removeduser_487563287433]

Teenaged bit of alright.

[motiv-8]

It is strange that them who say that Joseph was the father of James, Jude and others from another marriage, not one of them was ever noted to be a carpenter in the tradition of father and son.

Er, well, there's a lot that goes unsaid about James, Jude, and the others, given that they weren't the central figures of the narrative. That's simply common sense.

[Zenith Darksea]

It is strange that them who say that Joseph was the father of James, Jude and others from another marriage, not one of them was ever noted to be a carpenter in the tradition of father and son.

So what was their profession?

[Strelok]

Isn’t it wonderful that on a day uncertain a baby was born to a virgin just as the prophets had foretold, an event that was to turn the world outside of Judaism upside down, even beginning in that religion.

I would say it would be very interesting if it we were able to prove it to have happened.