America's Greatest Strength

[Farnan]

The summer before last I went to a program called LeadAmerica. When you got there they divided all the students there into groups. In my group there was 17 people and we got together greatly. So, what does that have to do with America's Greatness, well in this group were people who in other circumstances may be killing each other at one time or another. There were Muslims, a Jew,Atheists, Seik (sp), Catholics and Protesants in our group. There were an Arab, India Indians, caucasians, and a Korean. There were liberals and a few conservatives (I was always outnumbered) Every Ethnicity was present in LeadAmerica proper. The fact we all got along and became friends shows the greatness of America. The greatest strength of America is not is military, or its economy. The greatest strength is its diversity. Though we have skinheads and the KKK they represent the most despicable minority and do not represent the vast majority.

[Tom Paine]

The greatness of America? What, do you reckon we don't do that in Europe? You'd possibly be right; we don't bother trying to put people together in specific groups, just stick them all in a classroom. And let me tell you, it works; knowing the members of the group that you are being told to hate by whoever is a great incentive nt to, in general. Diversity is a strength of the West, not just America.

[Hanno the Navigator]

Diversity is a strength of the West, not just America.

IONO... from what I've seen or heard, racial hatred is not the basic human condition. It can be invoked quite easily, but generally, people will not discriminate that much just-so.

Also, to us, East Asians or Black Africans or Arabs might look 'very alike', but believe me, there's just as much diversity down there as over here, methinks it's just that Westerners make more of an issue out of it. A country like, say, Thailand, has nearly as much ethnic diversity as the whole of Western Europe!

It needs some organization or government or such to stir up prejudice, fuel anger, or by some other mean, intentionally or not, stir up ethnic hatred for things to go ugly.

Here in Germany, there's a lot of knee-jerk prejudise, and it's bound to increase as the Conservatives who are most likely to win the general elections speak of preserving the ethnic purity of Germany. They are ignorant of the fact that neo-Nazis already hold sway over entire settlements in the northeast; in fact, a Conservative hopeful used the Vichy regime's motto "Work, Family, Fatherland" as an election slogan!

But an "ethincally pure" Germany is myth that was popularized by the Nazis and never went away since. For one thing, there was no "Germany" in the modern sense before 1871, and the very idea of an unified Germany as we know it was virtually nonexistent before the Napoleonic era - people were Prussians, Bavarians, Palatines, Slesvigians, Sorbs, Silesians, whatever, but not Germans.
And then, the Germans are a people born from immigrants, and have been ever since the German tribes migrated through Central Europe: our ancestors were Romans, Gauls, Danes, Goths, Francs, Suebians and any number of other Germanic tribes of course; Swiss, Swedes, Poles, Russians, Huguenots, Dutch, Ashkenazi Jews, Italians, in modern times Turks, Portugese, Greek...

I might continue this list for a long time, but suffice to say that the difference, methinks, is less that of some cultures being more able than others to integrate immigrants, than whether they are aware of it or not, and also, whether they embrace it like the US (which is indeed their greatest strength) or have not quite come to terms with it like Germany. The only exception might be island cultures like the Japanese or others that have been isolated by effects of geography etc for a long period of time.

And now I'll head over to the Banghladeshi kiosk for a pack o'smokes, or if he's closed today, to the Bulgarian chica, and then grab me some garlic sausage at the Persian guy's, who always works long hours - a welcome relief if you return home from a party and find the guy's still open to grab a quick snack. They all speak German OK, their kids are fluent in German and their parents' native tongue. I don't think that these guys would consider themselves German, but they surely they are people of my country, not just in my country, and for that I'm proud. And these folks are not well-off or something; I live in a fairly blue-collar part of town; I'd say that they're the average immigrant who has been given a chance to try and make it. Sure you get a few rotten apples every now and then, but I'd say 95% of immigrants are good, decent folks, and if you give them a chance to make a living, they'll fully integrate themselves within 2 or 3 generations. And as they come from differing cultural backgrounds, the assumption they're "stealing jobs" is not true in general either: rather, most immigrants open small businesses in niches that are unused so far. The times of the Ruhr heavy industry "guest-worker" are long past.

[MaximiIian]

Diversity is a strength of the West, not just America.

Most americans, sadly, see no difference between the two terms.

[Farnan]

I live in rural America, and diversity is not to present here, which is why I talked about LeadAmerica. I commented on America, because I have not had the ability to visit Europe. If it happens in Europe then I agree it is a strength of the west and not just America.

[Tom Paine]

The same sort of thing does, yes. And I can see how out of a city it might be better to have an institution or group for increasing and encouraging mutual support and friendships. Long live the West in that respect.

[PacSubCom]

I fancy a guess that this has nothing to do with the West or America at all. Put 17 young people who have never seen each other before in a room. Then give them a task to accomplish, maybe in competition with another group. Tell them that they are to be nice people and "the good leaders of the future".

Tralalala, all are nice, and doing their job.

And why on earth should you 17 people kill each other in other circumstances? Do you think that human beings become furious if they see someone with different political views on sight? That does never happen, and anywhere I went on this planet and met different people it was exactly as you describe. Whether whites/blacks/south americans/chinese /japanese/indians/americans/europeans/russians/africans/persians whoever came together they all got along. That's civilization at large, not the West.

And if some girls were among them, things went even smoother

[Farnan]

I think you misunderstood me. I was saying that because in other situations people who were ethnically and religously the same as them, if in some non-western nations would be killing each other. One example was an Arab Muslim and a Sicilian Jew got along together. In the middle east they would have been enemies. Do you get the point, maybe someone else can make it clearer.

[Tom Paine]

A few words for you, from history and the present: apartheid, nazism, racism, stalinism. All of those are intolenrances of various forms; and from different world areas. And some are alive and well today. The fact is, there is an instinctive xenophobia (in the literal meaning, fear of strangers/others) in all mankind as a survival instinct; and that can be chanelled very destructively. So we do need this sort of thing; if the first time you met, say, a black guy was when you were middle aged and had been told that they were subhuman or whatever, what would yopur ninstinctual reaction be? Well, look at America in the first half of this century to find out, eh?

[Erik]

I once saw a program where they put Israeli jewish kids and Palestinian muslim kids together.
They did have a language problem, but apart from that they got along very well.

The point is: most people can get along with most other people on a personal basis, no matter where they came from or what their political background is.

[CaptainCernick]

I once saw a program where they put Israeli jewish kids and Palestinian muslim kids together.
They did have a language problem, but apart from that they got along very well.

The point is: most people can get along with most other people on a personal basis, no matter where they came from or what their political background is.

Most kids can get along. That's because they haven't been as fully brainwashed into political, religeous and ethnical views as adults are.
Put a bunch of Israeli and Palestinian adults together and you get fireworks most of the time.

[Erik]

Most kids can get along. That's because they haven't been as fully brainwashed into political, religeous and ethnical views as adults are.
Put a bunch of Israeli and Palestinian adults together and you get fireworks most of the time.

I don't beleive most adult are brainwashed, just a considerable percentage.
But kids are indeed usually more openminded.

[CaptainCernick]

I don't beleive most adult are brainwashed, just a considerable percentage.
But kids are indeed usually more openminded.

On the contrary, every adult is brainwashed, including you, me, him, everybody.
You have a set of religeous, political, cultural,... ideas and you won't give them up. These ideas aren't "inborn", they grow on you and are caused by external factors (parents, friends, personal experiences, education,...)
For example: the discussion on these boards between atheists and christians, between left and right, pro- and anti-war. Can you be ABSOLUTELY certain you are right and the other side is wrong? No, because if you were right, there wouldn't be a discussion.
I know this may seem far-fetched, but sleep over it for a night and you'll see what I mean.

[Atheist Peace]

Are you serious dude? Some people who are from different demographics the media loves to throw around got along, and that shows the greatness of America? I dont see how, there are people with differences everywhere, and surely kids who are different can get along. Seriously, this is a horrible example of why a country would be great. For example: The kids in my school are 90% dumb :wub:s who can't tolerate anyone who is different from them, a bunch of stupid, rich, white kids. Does that mean everyone in America is like that? No.

[Tom Paine]

Ye, but try it with adults. Is why you need to do it with kids.

[DrakKassleron]

Interesting.....though I agree with Squeakus Maximus, it isn't just America. Europe is equally as tolerant. Even myself, I do not always like, or even respect the political views of some people, but I don't want to kill them simply because they aren't hard-line communists.

I sometimes have problems with people who are very religious, but that is not common.

[Tom Paine]

AP: I think you miss the point. That there is such tolerance and diversity in a nation which applies across the west by the way) is a signal of greatness for those who have it, surely? Not greatness as in power, but as in rightness; as in how it is better than other nations.

[Atheist Peace]

Squeakus:
Yes yes i know. I dont usually miss a point unless i decide to really.

I guess I just dont like when countries are singled out for greatness, and i absolutely hate hearing people whine to kids about tolerance and all that, when really...well i wont get into that.

[Virgo Vestalis]

I don't believe that America's diversity is a "strength" at this point in time. In fact I think it is a root cause of much of our social issues.

America is incredibly diverse, culturally speaking. However those diverse cultures are hardly seemlessly integrated are they?
I have little doubt that one day the US will become a shining example of racial and cultural diversity; "the great melting pot" that many would like to believe it already is. We have made great strides in the last 50 years, but I think we still have a long way to go before we can make such a claim.
Be rightly proud of what we have achieved thus far as a society, but the struggle against intolerance is far from over.

As a multicultural nation we are still finding our feet.

[DrakKassleron]

I don't believe that America's diversity is a "strength" at this point in time. In fact I think it is a root cause of much of our social issues.

America is incredibly diverse, culturally speaking. However those diverse cultures are hardly seemlessly integrated are they?
I have little doubt that one day the US will become a shining example of racial and cultural diversity; "the great melting pot" that many would like to believe it already is. We have made great strides in the last 50 years, but I think we still have a long way to go before we can make such a claim.
Be rightly proud of what we have achieved thus far as a society, but the struggle against intolerance is far from over.

As a multicultural nation we are still finding our feet.

I agree. I would say that Europe is more multicultural than America, but that doesn't mean America is bad. America still has some racism, and IMHO, too much religious conservatism. Religious conservatism isn't a bad thing in itself, but it doesn't work very well in the modern world, especially the western world. And America is less liberal because of the strong influence of religion, and thus, the United States government is more intolerant of communism, different beliefs sometimes even.............