Corruption traits in RS2

[warsawabruce]

In RS 1.5 and RS 1.6 all negative corruption traits will start hitting your family members when your economy is at 50.000. Honestly I think that this mark is quite low, especially when you have built an economy and expanded so you have a fairly big empire. I was wondering if you would raise the mark to 150.000, so your family members won't be negative influenced quite early in a campaign?

[General Brittanicus]

There may be a file somewhere that you can change yourself, but i have no idea about these things, so wait till somebody more knowledeable posts something on the matter.

[RJA]

You can do that yourself actually. Just adjust the traits. I've done it before, but to be honest it didn't seem to work very wel actually. So now I just keep under 50.000 by queing buildings. Certainly when your cities become bigger, buildings get a lot more expensive. And if you need more money, just un que them. But I know, it's more of a hassle. The 50.000 limit was meant for vanilla Rome total war, not for RS. So maybe they have changed that in RSII. I hope so actually. Not too much, but something like 100.000. That way your can keep enough money to build a couple super expensive buildings in your biggest cities without being afraid that all your family members become hugely extravagant. Those bastards. -3 managment is a real pain in the ass. Why can't they just be responsible with all that unused gold in their treasury.

RJA

[General Brittanicus]

Sorry to slightly hijack this, but speaking of traits and whatnot is there a list of possible traits anywhere and is it possible to get a general to become 'the great' as in getting a fation leader to Flavius the Great.

[DaddyPro]

It is possible tho its quite hard, you would have to win alot battles or you can just do ~give_trait "Flavius Maxentius" GoodCommander 5, as for corruption traits its easy to get rid of it just edit your traits triggers.

[Everto]

I don't feel that the main question has been answered concerning if in RS2 the corruption in family members will begin to become prevalent after you hit 50.000, so the question remains if the RS2 team will make changes, and secondly, if you can manually edit certain trait files to raise the corruption minimum from 50.000 to 150.000

[General Brittanicus]

Actually DaddyPro mentions that you could edit the trait triggers and since i dont know what will be on RS 2 i cant answer that one.

[apple]

We haven't decided anything just yet.

[Alavaria]

Currently it isn't in, I think.

I checked for that trait (because of the economic system, which has larger numbers) and the file had no trigger on treasury level.

There isn't even a way to gain the Corrupt trait at all...

[Octavius-Augustus]

That's nice... Even if it's a little bit unrealistic.

Most of the time I don't care about corruption traits (I used to hate them, though) but I realised what they are - a way to slow down the economic boom. I've noticed that after you hit 50/100,000 even -3 management and the other bad traits don't really affect the characters that much. With all their other traits and especially ancilliaries (spelling?) most of them are still abled governors and your treasury doesn't get hurt that much.

I also don't like having 80+ percent corrupt characters. Or generally 'virtuous' characters becoming insanely corrupt. Maybe there's a way to tone down the chance that the negative traits appear or link them to certain other traits. I don't know how the current vanilla/RS 1.6 model works, I also don't know how much levels of corruption there could be, but I imagine they should be something like this:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

1. If you have a 'stable' income - no corruption (as is presumed to have been in the Early Republic), Rome (or any other faction) is just not wealthy enough to tempt the characters.
2. If the treasury is starting to get abundant, some characters (maybe 10-15%?) should start getting bad traits at reasonably low levels. That is to mirror the nobility starting to get greedy, but not absolutely corrupt yet.
3. If the treasury now has great amounts of cash - corruption should start to spread. (30-40% of characters?) Immediate measures are in order.
4. If your faction is filthy rich - that's when the real wave of corruption must hit. (Maybe 70-80%) Almost noone could withstand the temptation.

These of course could vary in the number of levels (depending if they're hardcoded or not) and chance of getting the trait (which should control the percentage of affected characters to some degree). As I previously mentioned, I also think it would be realistic, if possible, to link certain traits to corruption. For instance, a 'True Roman' / 'Spartan' / 'Honest Man' (if there are similar traits in RS II) should not be prone to corruption. This should go both ways - characters with 'Sly' / 'Dishonest' / 'Immoral' or similar traits should be much more tempted to go corrupt. Just my thoughts on this, which I've had almost since I've been playing RTW.

Anyway, I still think the 50,000 trigger is too low, especially for RS 1.6. Even though there were some nice adjustements to the (Roman) economy in 1.6, it's still pretty easy to have 50,000 most of the time. I know this could be edited, I have done it myself, actually. Still, if RS II has a different economic model a 50,000 mark maybe reasonable (if that is a considerable amount ingame). I doubt corruption traits will be gone altogether in RS II. It's just not realistic.

Sorry for the long post

[dvk901]

That's nice... Even if it's a little bit unrealistic.

Most of the time I don't care about corruption traits (I used to hate them, though) but I realised what they are - a way to slow down the economic boom. I've noticed that after you hit 50/100,000 even -3 management and the other bad traits don't really affect the characters that much. With all their other traits and especially ancilliaries (spelling?) most of them are still abled governors and your treasury doesn't get hurt that much.

I also don't like having 80+ percent corrupt characters. Or generally 'virtuous' characters becoming insanely corrupt. Maybe there's a way to tone down the chance that the negative traits appear or link them to certain other traits. I don't know how the current vanilla/RS 1.6 model works, I also don't know how much levels of corruption there could be, but I imagine they should be something like this:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

1. If you have a 'stable' income - no corruption (as is presumed to have been in the Early Republic), Rome (or any other faction) is just not wealthy enough to tempt the characters.
2. If the treasury is starting to get abundant, some characters (maybe 10-15%?) should start getting bad traits at reasonably low levels. That is to mirror the nobility starting to get greedy, but not absolutely corrupt yet.
3. If the treasury now has great amounts of cash - corruption should start to spread. (30-40% of characters?) Immediate measures are in order.
4. If your faction is filthy rich - that's when the real wave of corruption must hit. (Maybe 70-80%) Almost noone could withstand the temptation.

These of course could vary in the number of levels (depending if they're hardcoded or not) and chance of getting the trait (which should control the percentage of affected characters to some degree). As I previously mentioned, I also think it would be realistic, if possible, to link certain traits to corruption. For instance, a 'True Roman' / 'Spartan' / 'Honest Man' (if there are similar traits in RS II) should not be prone to corruption. This should go both ways - characters with 'Sly' / 'Dishonest' / 'Immoral' or similar traits should be much more tempted to go corrupt. Just my thoughts on this, which I've had almost since I've been playing RTW.

Anyway, I still think the 50,000 trigger is too low, especially for RS 1.6. Even though there were some nice adjustements to the (Roman) economy in 1.6, it's still pretty easy to have 50,000 most of the time. I know this could be edited, I have done it myself, actually. Still, if RS II has a different economic model a 50,000 mark maybe reasonable (if that is a considerable amount ingame). I doubt corruption traits will be gone altogether in RS II. It's just not realistic.

Sorry for the long post

This was the problem with the corruption traits......and the reason I had asked to Calvin to remove them. My arguement is that just because you have a lot of money doesn't mean you are corrupt. You could actually be a very competent Governor who manages well and deserves a bonus for it...not a corruption penalty. But RTW's tendency was to punish Governors for having a lot of money, especially as the game proceeded on. I'm not saying that a Governor couldn't be corrupt....a lot of them surely were, but the system for getting such a trait should be tied into other traits....such as 'dishonest'. Thus if you were dishonest, lazy, or had a bunch of other bad traits AND a lot of money, then you could get the corruption trait. But the system was never finished.

[Brusilov]

The trigger may well be embedded within the game engine. I've been aware of the 50K trigger for a while. However, others have posted that there are other progressive thresholds that generate even worse traits (which can't be moved to another sacrificial general/family member).

[General Brittanicus]

Do the bad traits only appear when you are earning over 50,000 a turn or if you have 50,000 in your treasury, because if it were the latter you could do the cheat add_money -40000 or sumthin like that.

[Alavaria]

The trigger may well be embedded within the game engine. I've been aware of the 50K trigger for a while. However, others have posted that there are other progressive thresholds that generate even worse traits (which can't be moved to another sacrificial general/family member).

The trigger is only "embedded" within the descr_character_traits.

As far as I can tell, it is gone and there is no way to gain "Corrupt" as of yet.

So, my idea is possible to realize, just not finished? Isn't there a new recruit in place of the late Calvin? (R.I.P. ) I know he was great in what he did, but surely someone could at least try to take the challenge?

My final question is: will there be any representation of corruption in case the old traits are gone for good?

1) Yes, someone is working on traits (eg: Roman military career ...)
2)The trait itself is still there, just no trigger to gain it. Probably like DVK suggested it could be linked to various things, eg: personality AND money (gotta have money to be corrupt ^___^)

You could imagine that a good governor (and a growing state/faction treasury) grows to be liked by the people for his good ruling/public works whereas a not so good one tends to ... uh, steal money if given the chance. Could be an interesting governor dynamic.

[Octavius-Augustus]

Okay, new question. If the corruption triggers are removed altogether in RS II, can I just remove them in RS 1.6? Yes, my governors will all be superheroes, but so will the AI's! It seems like a nice idea to me. Carefully considering everything said in this thread, the current RS 1.6 mechanism is useless. So I would like to fix that myself.. Do I just remove the corruption lines in the trait text file?

[Octavius-Augustus]

So, my idea is possible to realize, just not finished? Isn't there a new recruit in place of the late Calvin? (R.I.P. ) I know he was great in what he did, but surely someone could at least try to take the challenge?

My final question is: will there be any representation of corruption in case the old traits are gone for good?

[Alavaria]

Just remove the trigger for it ...

[Octavius-Augustus]

Thanks, Alavaria. I thought that would work, just had to ask..