Why doesn't envolpment work in HoI3?

[Sphere]

There doesn't seem to be any penalties when you successfully surround units. As France I allowed 20 or so divisions to slip past my defenses than cut them off completely (no land route, no ports, not even an airbase.) I kept them cut off for about 4 months but they still could re-supply and reinforce, so I cut off them off into 2 separate groups and then eventually 3 separate groups (one on the coast two inland), and then their trapped units go on the offensive and surround Paris (three times actually)?

What gives? In HoI2 when units get cut off, they are doomed if not rescued, now it isn't even an issue. Is there some game play mechanic I am missing, like aerial supply?

[hellheaven1987]

My impression is that:

1. When encircling regions contains IC, it is possible for enemy to produce limit amount of supplies.

2. Even after encirclement, it takes quite sometimes before enemy use all its storing supplies, which always store with spearhead. Hence, your enemy may have like 1000 supplies, which is enough for them to march behind you for at least ten days (each division uses around 5 to 20 supplies per day, depends what troops types). If they are lucky and capture some of your IC regions, they can continue building supplies, which makes the encirclement completely worthless.

Overall, it is necessary to throw your enemy into a very tiny area for quite sometimes, before they cannot move due to lack of supplies.

Edit: I feel it is necessary to explain HoI3 supply system in short way. Basically, supplying system in HoI2 is continuing from a back, with a few deposts for permanunt storing. In HoI3, the system is designed that every spearhead unit has a mobile depost behind or with them, so supplies would store with those units and following them; there are still permanut depost in HoI3, mostly are ports. Hence, it is wise to get some islands first and storing supplies within those islands, before launch a major operation (for example, before I land on Greece as British, I conquer Crete first, wait two months for supplies store up, then launch my operation on Greece mainland. Doing this the supply post would be Crete instead directly from British Isles).

[Sphere]

Two more things I am not getting:

1.) My units in allied territory often get zero supply, even when there is ample local supply (1600+) and no other allied units in the area that might be soaking them up. The curious thing is that my units had been previously in full supply for several months and most had never moved, then all of a sudden their supply just snaps off. The ally is still producing surplus supply, and I have maxed out supply, and as previously noted the local supply is still in good shape. My only recourse has been to fall back into my own territory, let my enemy conquer my ally, and then reconquer the land so it belongs to me, and the supply problems disappear. Again am I missing some game dynamic here?

2.) Is there anything bugged about the envelopment penalty on the tactical battle screen? I've completely surrounded 30 divisions in one province (of which 5 have organization left) with 100 of my own (all in good shape), but the battle always goes poorly (10-20 in the red, with the only a hair on the victory slider in my favor), I never really lose because of the shear number of fresh divisions I have, but the battle just drags on forever. I've noticed that the "envelopment penalty" icon is on my side of the tactical battle screen implying that it is I that am surrounded, which I think might explain it.

[hellheaven1987]

1.) My units in allied territory often get zero supply, even when there is ample local supply (1600+) and no other allied units in the area that might be soaking them up. The curious thing is that my units had been previously in full supply for several months and most had never moved, then all of a sudden their supply just snaps off. The ally is still producing surplus supply, and I have maxed out supply, and as previously noted the local supply is still in good shape. My only recourse has been to fall back into my own territory, let my enemy conquer my ally, and then reconquer the land so it belongs to me, and the supply problems disappear. Again am I missing some game dynamic here?

1. When you are in allied territory, your units are completely depended on allied supply.

2. Your units are always second piority to supply than your allies' own units.

Hence the answer is don't liberate your allies too fast.

2.) Is there anything bugged about the envelopment penalty on the tactical battle screen? I've completely surrounded 30 divisions in one province (of which 5 have organization left) with 100 of my own (all in good shape), but the battle always goes poorly (10-20 in the red, with the only a hair on the victory slider in my favor), I never really lose because of the shear number of fresh divisions I have, but the battle just drags on forever. I've noticed that the "envelopment penalty" icon is on my side of the tactical battle screen implying that it is I that am surrounded, which I think might explain it.

No, there are different type of envelopment penalty, with complete envelopment gives highest penalty. However, terrain, weather and local fortification also play a crucial role. I have once encircle 30 divisions on Metze and I have to spend two months to kill off them (although the casualty for me is 2k).

[thatguy]

Two more things I am not getting:

1.) My units in allied territory often get zero supply, even when there is ample local supply (1600+) and no other allied units in the area that might be soaking them up. The curious thing is that my units had been previously in full supply for several months and most had never moved, then all of a sudden their supply just snaps off. The ally is still producing surplus supply, and I have maxed out supply, and as previously noted the local supply is still in good shape. My only recourse has been to fall back into my own territory, let my enemy conquer my ally, and then reconquer the land so it belongs to me, and the supply problems disappear. Again am I missing some game dynamic here?

2.) Is there anything bugged about the envelopment penalty on the tactical battle screen? I've completely surrounded 30 divisions in one province (of which 5 have organization left) with 100 of my own (all in good shape), but the battle always goes poorly (10-20 in the red, with the only a hair on the victory slider in my favor), I never really lose because of the shear number of fresh divisions I have, but the battle just drags on forever. I've noticed that the "envelopment penalty" icon is on my side of the tactical battle screen implying that it is I that am surrounded, which I think might explain it.

Are too many units stacked ontop of each other? because that can cause problems.