Papal states idea, please read

[Mayan-Man]

okay, just a few ideas that would require some scripting (i cant do, i'm not very good with scripting) but basicly,

1) ive always wondered why the papal states never join crusades unless the faction is controlled by a human player, so i thought it would be a good idea to make it so that they always (maybe not always) joined a crusade, this would also help support the papal states as a faction helping them balance out their econemy if they actually captured the settlement, and thus could build more armies/upgrade existing ones (they have two big stacks supported by 1 city, wich means they are a bit of a chalenge to beat for about 2 turns and then vwala, you can just get rid of any pope you dont like)
2)if playing as the papal states you CAN call a crusade, but the pope almost NEVER accepts your request, some form of script meaning the papal states had maximum papal favour and there crusade requests were always accepted would make it a bit more interesting to play as them
3) and finally, is there anyway to make the papal states a more 'aggresive faction' agains the nearby rebel factions, they must have a HORRIBLE tresury supporting 2 whole stacks from just rome and once there gone they arn't gona produce anymore stacks (as metioned before)

just some ideas, hope that someone has the time to help make this work
Mayan-Man

[Soul Firez]

Ok well i have not scripted any events for papal states but i can say under the AI implemented (heavily modified XCAI) in my coming soon submod the pope will join a crusade certainly not every crusade but i have seen the main man himself (the pope) take cairo . he is more agressive (which can be bad news for milan unless player run and you kiss his you know what early and often for a long time lol) he will go after rebels and or excomed italian or french hre etc factions. He has at times started his own expansion into north africa against the moors backed by the sicilians

He doesnt dominate all or italy and then onto the rest of europe but it is not uncommon by round 200 to see the papal states control 5 or 6 territories( hence why i gave him a new special battle model for the pope as you are more likely to see him in action ) he isnt a playable faction here (yes i know there are ways around that and make him playable ) but yes it is possible to give him max rep with himself to make him much more likely to acceopt crusades given by a player as papal faction

[Mayan-Man]

dankeye, that looks interesting, i will definatly be getting your 'sub mod' as soon as it is released to the community, perhaps you would ike to implement the max-res thing into it with instructions added on how to edit Descr_Strat for less capable modders as yourself (this is one of the few text documents im willing to open and change, im still geting used to modding again after a LONG empire TW campaign).

[LemuelG]

The Pope is calling crusades on his own initiative in my current game (not to mention taking-over most of N. Africa), and joining-in... if anything, I wish he was a little less 'pro-active'.

[Soul Firez]

I am not sure i agree with you (we use to have the pope turtle and do nothing) i believe the pope and his minions are as greedy as any other faction (the vatican is pretty richly decorated) but i certainly do not wish to press my views on how he would play to anyone

If you wish the pope to be dormant it is quite easily done in the descr_strat the Ai labels for each faction are there if you change the popes (papal_states) AI label to default he will do very little indeed acting like rebels which next to never attack settlements or do much of anything he may by the end of the game have 2 settlements rather than one would pretty much be his max As always when i asked nicely i try to help everyone enjoy the game the way they want regardless if i agree with there idea or not it is your game to enjoy how you wish it

[LemuelG]

I am not sure i agree with you (we use to have the pope turtle and do nothing) i believe the pope and his minions are as greedy as any other faction (the vatican is pretty richly decorated) but i certainly do not wish to press my views on how he would play to anyone

If you wish the pope to be dormant it is quite easily done in the descr_strat the Ai labels for each faction are there if you change the popes (papal_states) AI label to default he will do very little indeed acting like rebels which next to never attack settlements or do much of anything he may by the end of the game have 2 settlements rather than one would pretty much be his max As always when i asked nicely i try to help everyone enjoy the game the way they want regardless if i agree with there idea or not it is your game to enjoy how you wish it

You're right - I only complain because he is making things difficult for me, taking settlements I wanted for myself... he's my oldest and best ally, and if I attack him I'm X-commed

All-in-all I would say it is a good thing that the Pope is more politically active - he starts wars and calls crusades, he is a real 'player', rather than a useful tool.

Here is an example from my current campaign: Pope calls crusade on Hohenstaufen; HRE holds-on against French, but when Portugal arrives we assault with allied Papal army; crusade over, I give city back to HRE and make alliance with him (for the first time in the game HRE and the Pope are at peace); allied Papal army is still next to city, as well as French armies - I attack France (out of the blue, their last queen was Portuguese, but she is dead now), and draw the Pope into battle - France was the Pope's favorite - but now they are at war and France is X-commed! (holding-on for a crusade against Paris!)

I am fighting alongside Papal armies in Italy (helping the Pope against Venice) and France... all the while plotting my betrayal (he will not be forgiven for encroaching on Africa, I shall make Rome my #50) - aggresive-Pope has made this game very interesting

[chris7ian]

when i play as the HRE i keep throwing them money and it seems this quenches his thirst for land, until i take rome that is...

[Soul Firez]

LOL change his AI label to catholic and then you will see a greedy dominant pope he goes nuts and will attack and rule most of the world (he really does seem to emulate the old roman empire from 1 settlement by games end he will have 30 plus

[chris7ian]

one strat i had in dealing with the pope early on with the HRE was to finish milan quickly. Making sure i have Ajaccio first, then mass three stacks (only need one or two if you are good, i am not :p) and then take rome around turn 20 or so. By doing this you can take rome without much worry of being crusaded against. Most people are involved in a war off the start. The pope has no alliances this early for the most part. Sicily is normally at war with the moors and byzantines by now. So basically if you can absorb the popularity hit then you can normally get a ceasefire with the pope within 10 turns assuming you have the monetary funds available.

After that give the pope Ajaccio and some more cash and offer an alliance and the hardest part of your campaign is over. Just make sure you get the ceasefire because the pope will call a crusade pretty quick and although no other countries will get there quickly they will be along your massive border in no time. The reason i give up Ajaccio is 1. Always gets invaded by the moors or sicilians. 2. Not very well off to begin with and the economy or Rome is a much better trade off. 3. Its a pain getting troops on and off the island imo, i dont want to build up a huge naval presence to keep people from invading.

Ive noticed with the HRE after 20 turns you really make a lot of money and your eastern neighbors are more concerned about eastward expansion. So i keep light garrisons to the east and north and basically consolidate Italy in the beginning. After my economy gets going ill place three half stacks off my western border just to persuade the French to keep fighting the English and Spanish. To keep the Danes in check I get an alliance with Norway. So I've been able to take milan and venice quickly. Although Venice is a little tricky because Hungary and Sicily are normally allied with them. I tend to take Venice and one other province and then call a ceasefire.

After I'm satisfied with the south I then move into france or denmark considering who the pope ex-comms. Ive noticed a lot of ex-comms iin the beginning and I cant keep up with them. But for some reason on my HRE campaigns the pope sits in rome and does nothing. Probably do to me gifting 500-1000 cash every 4 turns.