Lithuania is the hardest faction.

**Angrychris** · December 22, 2009, 02:29 PM

Starting out with one castle and everyone hates you regardless of what you do. All i would ask for is a diplomate to atleast pretend that you have a shot at making it to turn 100. Constantly being attacked by poland and russia with european relations falling apart each time i have to humiliate my enemies with heroic victories. Cant play anymore because of how they siege up half my regions (3) back to back repeatedly. Only place im able to get a diplomate is at northern coastal region but by the time im able to produce one relations are to far gone to matter (princess even ran away). Exhausted by economy and only have spearmen that i know would be massacred if i used because of how they refuse to attack my strong holds and wait for me to sally forth in sieges. THe refusal to attack my strong holds is what annoys me the most so i have no chance of victory unless i sally. Very frustrating and the hardest ive ever played in years. Only faction i played with that the ai will wait out sieges 100% of the time.

**cedric37** · December 22, 2009, 03:26 PM

I have to agree with you that Lithuania is a very good challenge at least to start the game with. You don't have friends, no economy, crappy basic troops and cannot call crusades or jihad.
But, once you are able to get a kingdom with a fortress then you start to become very strong. At the end, your noble infantery can deal with any heavy catholic knights. Giltines chosen are just awesome too.
I advice you to send a diplomat at 1st to Roma and gain an alliance with the pope, it will make you virtually immune to crusades. Then try to benefit from your neighbours weakness and be opportunist.
And Good Luck !!

**Shabby_Ronin** · December 22, 2009, 03:29 PM

I'd say Khwarezmians.

**cedric37** · December 22, 2009, 03:32 PM

It depends on the period. *

Early period, then Kwarezm is just fine: you get ghulams, afghan javelinmen and hashishims and most other local factions get crap compared to this; you can expand rapidly and prepare for the arrival of the mongols.

Late period: yes, sad to say, but it is nearly a suicide...

**Shabby_Ronin** · December 22, 2009, 03:39 PM

Even in early, they are coming eventually, they land right on your doorstep and there is simply too much ground to cover.

I personally don't think Lithuania is that hard, I guess each person has his own opinion on what is challenging.

This is with RR.

**Quercia** · December 22, 2009, 03:42 PM

Really? Never think it was that bad. They have a region next to them that has no garrison (palanga or something).

Might want to try them once for the difficulty.

**cedric37** · December 23, 2009, 11:26 AM

Originally Posted by Shabby_Ronin

Even in early, they are coming eventually, they land right on your doorstep and there is simply too much ground to cover.

Agree, yes of course, this will not be an easy fight but this is doable. At least i achieved to win this fight in SS6.1, did not try in RR; maybe it changes completly the output of the fight

I personally don't think Lithuania is that hard

It is quite hard to start with, then when you are started it is not so difficult (but not too easy neither

).....but many other factions are hard to start with anyway

I guess each person has his own opinion on what is challenging.

Exactly!

If you think thats hard, than start a late era Teutonic campaign on vh/vh with RR and all the other stuff.

Yes this one is really tough, i tried the teutons in both SS6.1 and SS6.2 RC4 (did not try with RR but surely worth), and yes the start is very very difficult and the development is not that easy too.

Well, if one want an easy fight, he must pick up let say england, their starting positions and overall very good units make them quite easy to play with (at least this is my feeling and this is completly non objective ^^).

**spur390** · December 22, 2009, 07:25 PM

Does a crusade time out if the objective isn't captured? It has been ten turns or so, but there are still a few stacks left. I really should have allied the pope...

**Mr. Tornado** · December 22, 2009, 09:38 PM

You're dead.

Start over.

**Shabby_Ronin** · December 22, 2009, 10:05 PM

Haha, you must have spent a century pissing people off. That looked like a reckoning.

**spur390** · December 23, 2009, 03:51 AM

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...78#post4452778

Actually, I had alliances with poland and hungary. The only country I was warring was Novgorod. then BAM, crusade. I'm not the only one with this problem.

I guess the pope really wanted to retake all the holy relics that were somewhere buried in my backyard that I wasn't even aware of. The faction leader's guard dog could drop all the relics he wants all the pope has to do is ask.

**Loose Cannon** · December 23, 2009, 08:01 AM

You're a HEATHEN. The HEATHEN must be converted!! or DESTROYED!!

The Pope knows you don't have any relics.

Actually, it takes more like 25 turns for a crusade to "time out" if it does. But as a dozen factions joined the crusade I doubt that you will ever get peace unless you really work at it.

**PerXX** · December 23, 2009, 10:51 AM

A Crusade/Jihad doesn't time out as such.
Once it's called, factions have 9 turns to join. After that, no more generals my join the Crusade/Jihad, and then I'll last untill either the target is taken, or every general that joined have been killed. So if one of them gets stuck, then it might last untill he dies of old age!

**sbroadbent** · December 23, 2009, 03:47 PM

Originally Posted by PerXX

A Crusade/Jihad doesn't time out as such.
Once it's called, factions have 9 turns to join. After that, no more generals my join the Crusade/Jihad, and then I'll last untill either the target is taken, or every general that joined have been killed. So if one of them gets stuck, then it might last untill he dies of old age!

The benefit of that then is that those dirty catholics can't call another crusade on you

**ash874** · December 23, 2009, 05:16 PM

well right now i play with denmark on vhvh and im on turn 120 something like that
and lithuania has managed to keep about 6 provinces

although the AI is obviously granted some perks on this level

**JorisofHolland** · December 23, 2009, 02:07 PM

Originally Posted by spur390

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...78#post4452778

Actually, I had alliances with poland and hungary. The only country I was warring was Novgorod. then BAM, crusade. I'm not the only one with this problem.

I guess the pope really wanted to retake all the holy relics that were somewhere buried in my backyard that I wasn't even aware of. The faction leader's guard dog could drop all the relics he wants all the pope has to do is ask.

Crusades are the worst bug you can find; all catholics will join (as you already noted even your allies), they will be at your doorstep in no-time and you'll loose the settlement unless you can also throw in fifteen stacks. Even worse is that your reputation will be at lowest as you're at war with every singe catholic.

**spur390** · December 23, 2009, 02:44 PM

Thanks for the sympathy, Joris. I looked at some forum posts and realized that the best way to handle this is to let the first stack to arrive walk into the city, thus ending the crusade and preventing the diplomacy cluster...pile. Defending is a pain in the rear because my reinforcements were scattered around the city, and I could not combine them because of the crusader army's ridiculous movement points.

Image is the last anvil to break the camel's back. There is also another crusader army on the horizon.

In my game as Portugal also on 6.2 RC4 RR/RC I was lamenting the lack of fun siege battles as the defender. I won wars quite handily and if I was sieged I only had 3 spear militia as defense. Not this time. Every other turn was a siege battle.

**Heathen Hammer** · December 23, 2009, 11:25 AM

If you think thats hard, than start a late era Teutonic campaign on vh/vh with RR and all the other stuff.

**Angrychris** · December 23, 2009, 02:05 PM

The more i defend myself the more everyone denounces me. I always play early era and i did way better with kwaz then with lithuania. You cant help but feel the hatred the ai has towards lithuania. I win many heroic battles so should i just start releasing their men or keep butchering them each time novog/poland keeps refusing to pay ransoms?