Townhall - Curial Commentary and Chat

[ggggtotalwarrior]

You’re a moderator now so Im certain one of the first events to kickstart the TWC apocalypse has occurred :p

[Dismounted Feudal Knight]

The cataclysm is set. But from where and from whom, I'm not at liberty to say.

[ggggtotalwarrior]

The first seal has been broken

[ggggtotalwarrior]

I honestly just feel everyone here wants to make changes for changes sake simply because they hope it’ll drum up some activity more than anything

[Muizer]

I honestly just feel everyone here wants to make changes for changes sake simply because they hope it’ll drum up some activity more than anything

If that were the case, I'm sure we could do better.

[ggggtotalwarrior]

It's not necessarily that we could do better or worse, it is that any efforts here are only a miniscule part of what drives TWC activity, and all those other factors outside our control have taken a turn for the worse the past few years.

[Akar]

Completely agree with Greg.

[ggggtotalwarrior]

Yeah absentee ownership and a few periods where the site was incredibly unstable/had suspect ads, waning popularity in the TW series as a whole in the west compared to burgeoning popularity in Asia, reduced mod-ability/Steam Workshop/aging of the most popular mods’ pre-Warscape games and the rise of Reddit killing old school forums all are negative factors on TWC retaining a consistent user base and bringing in new younger users to replace older members who fall off. Literally none of those factors could be addressed by hammering away at some unnecessary amendments to the constitution in hopes a few idle users drop in with their opinion before returning to the shadows.

[Muizer]

So why are you here?

[ggggtotalwarrior]

Because I love the site and many of its still-active users and the sort of community that can only exist on an old-fashioned Internet forum. I feel this way while also not deluding myself into thinking any sort of forum-wide pseudo government making minuscule changes that mainly only affect established users is capable of reversing structural issues that go far beyond what the Curia is capable of. The Curia has the potential to at best add to the experience and sense of community of a healthy user base, but it is not some magical “double active participants with this one weird trick!” Button that can be pressed if we pass unnecessary legislation.

I hope that those structural issues killing the site can maybe be reversed but the biggest thing holding that back is once again probably ownership being necessary for large, sweeping changes/improvements. I love the site and would like to see a return to form but I’m not going to push the Curia to do unnecessary unrelated things thinking that’ll have any positive impact nor am I going to assume that people who disagree with me don’t belong here entirely.

[Akar]

I once again feel like I need to say that I completely agree with Greg.

[Flinn]

Moved a few posts from the Prothalamos to keep up with topicality.

[Flinn]

Because I love the site and many of its still-active users and the sort of community that can only exist on an old-fashioned Internet forum. I feel this way while also not deluding myself into thinking any sort of forum-wide pseudo government making minuscule changes that mainly only affect established users is capable of reversing structural issues that go far beyond what the Curia is capable of. The Curia has the potential to at best add to the experience and sense of community of a healthy user base, but it is not some magical “double active participants with this one weird trick!” Button that can be pressed if we pass unnecessary legislation.

I hope that those structural issues killing the site can maybe be reversed but the biggest thing holding that back is once again probably ownership being necessary for large, sweeping changes/improvements. I love the site and would like to see a return to form but I’m not going to push the Curia to do unnecessary unrelated things thinking that’ll have any positive impact nor am I going to assume that people who disagree with me don’t belong here entirely.

Nice analysis, let me direct you to what I posted here in the Valuation of citizenship thread. Nothing new under the sun mate, other have expressed the same sentiments of yours and other will, as long as the site will exist. I for one do not pretend to "use the Curia" to change anything regarding the site at large, I was in the Hex man, for long, and I realized I could not change anything, for the reasons I explained various times around the site.

However, the Curia still exists, its value as an awarding committee, as reduced as it is by the little activity of these times, is still something... and one can still come here and post a discussion or a proposal, and while we can agree that to be pointless in terms of "saving the site", it is still part of the activity of the same (just like posting in the TD or in the WS), at the end it all boils down to what one likes to do here. A lot of people is not interested in this kind of things, fine, other are not interested in funny things or writing, some do not even play TW games and they are still very active here, so what? I think that it does not help in any case to turn down what others like or wanted to do in the site just because "it's pointless", everything could be pointless depending from where you look at it, and everything IS pointless if you look at it from above (Hex, I mean).

Not pretending the Curia to be anything else than an awarding committee and a sort of RPG ground for politics will quite certainly help anyone involved to put it in the right perspective and enjoy their time here .. or realize that they don't like it at all and stay away from that

[Muizer]

We could try to put to the test whether the Curia actually still has impact. We could legislate to mothball the Curia due to lack of participation and withdraw all awards voted on by the Curia, citing it would be unfair to new members not to.

[Flinn]

We could try to put to the test whether the Curia actually still has impact. We could legislate to mothball the Curia due to lack of participation and withdraw all awards voted on by the Curia, citing it would be unfair to new members not to.

The real nice thing about the Curia is that everything can be proposed and, as long as it gets at the least 3 supports, moved to vote. Such a drastic decision is unlikely to get enough support anyways, let it pass the vote barrier, if anything because the actual 15 people who are actually still bothering about the Curia are very much doing that because they want to spend some time in it, and getting rid of it won't really work, will it?

That being said, it could be the contrary, maybe a lot of angry citizens will come and vote to close it once and for all, I can't really bet on any of the two, while ofc if this was going to be the sort of choose or die, I would pick the former as more likely to happen.
Simplest course of action would be that of putting up and amendment, a very straight one, without much explanations (because they aren't really needed) and see if people would support it or not, and later move it to vote if that's the case.

[Dismounted Feudal Knight]

I've had a few changes of thought since my seas of ramble about the Curia in the past. For the Curia as an institution we might as well focus on its award capacity as the main proper function, sustain a bit of hubub for the sake of it even if its institutional impact to the wider site is indeed quite negligible, be open for opportunities where it can do something useful in the future and put a little time into fixing up the old home in local sections where the Curia itself may not be relevant.

It's not very productive to be bothered about how present various members of top management are, how the series and wider community has largely moved on from TWC's primary offerings or how VBulletin4 is an immensely dusty piece of software in the modern age. These are all well stated and understood, yet in spite of them TWC still manages to be quite active for what it is in many places, still provides value especially for older entries and partially for newer ones, and still has entire sections that keep doing their thing (hotseating, various mods, the common areas and heck, the dd is still kicking). We may as well focus on fine tuning these areas and seeing how to better the ones that aren't doing as well if only for ourselves and other users on the internet as strange as us despite where the wider franchise or other communities has gone. The curia doesn't have a huge role in all that, but we could perhaps spend some of our curial time continuing to drop off awards, adding citizens because they're giving the site a chance in its elder years, maybe mingle for a discussion about some section or aspect of the site while still being realistic that huge overhauls are probably not going to come quickly. Enjoying and improving what we have going for as long as the site's still up. That's the thinking I have for the moment.

I'm personally interested in fixing up thread pins, downloads and so forth that haven't aged well + the offerings of the wiki so what TWC does have can be more effective, and I welcome messages pointing out areas, pins whatnot in the TW sections that have particularly fallen out of date, have dead links or just could use a refresh. If I can't address it in my current capacity I/we can figure out who can, and move on if it's not feasible to work on. This can be arranged in our various groups or through the Q&S, but to demonstrate purpose for ourselves it could even partially be done right through here as far as it doesn't become a strictly staff matter. We know the Curia doesn't have particularly much impact as an institution, but we as individuals within it could surely still work something out, especially if we take on the above as an ethos rather than the conflicts that are an entertaining read but don't do much for progress. From what I can tell the value of the Curia has always been about its individuals just going out to do what they're decent at at anyway without stressing too much over the bigger picture or currently unfixable issues. Setting aside bad apples, dramas and so forth that distract from what we still very well can do. An approach with the above in mind can make questions like how to moderate the Curia when it farts in boredom near irrelevant by proxy.

[Flinn]

I've just posted a new CMS Article, a special issue to celebrate and inform people, Citizens and regular members alike, about the Member Awards.

[ggggtotalwarrior]

Thanks to you Flinn I just realized they’re up

[Flinn]

I can't us the same quote as of Gig, so I'll simply say

At your service, dude

[Flinn]

Well err congratulations I suppose! Btw, what's with the ridiculous short application time? Not even 3 days. Is that normal?

So that looks

https://www.twcenter.net/forums/show...ication-Thread
https://www.twcenter.net/forums/show...ication-Thread
https://www.twcenter.net/forums/show...ication-Thread
https://www.twcenter.net/forums/show...ication-Thread
https://www.twcenter.net/forums/show...ication-Thread

Anyways, we have been discussing this with Gig and Akar and actually we don't seem to be able to find anywhere written what the application period should be, not in the Constitution nor anywhere else. I personally believe that the info has been scrapped at some point, probably by mistake, during one of the umpteen amendment of the same. However, we all agree here, I believe, that a 7 days period sounds more appropriate, especially in these times of little activity.

I'm not sure on how to proceed in any case, bureaucratically speaking, suggestions are welcome.