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Thread: Townhall - Curial Commentary and Chat

  1. #6581

    Default Re: Townhall - Curial Commentary and Chat

    Quote Originally Posted by PikeStance View Post
    If you think there are a lot of new faces, I would say you have been gone for some time. Staff positions has decreased and citizenship have decreased as well. Even if someone were to present a grand new plan, it would never see the light of day. I would agree, it doesn't have be a complex scheme.
    I was part of the discussion. GED created the blogs. He didn't want just anyone posting blogs because he new citizens who routinely write inappropriate thins (TOS violation etc). His "plan" was a system by which members would be vetted. Ironic that you tell people to read it, but it doesn't see you had.
    Well, other people's ideas have failed. What was "implemented" fro my initiative have been so altered that it rendered it useless. Of course, that is not to say it would have worked. I have always said, whatever is done, it will be long shot. I warned what seem like 5 years ago that we are approaching the tipping point. Well, we passed it. Anything now is just a hope and prayer.
    With that attitude no wonder why those initiatives failed. You're not accomplishing anything by trying to shoot people down. You are welcomed to share your experience so that a new initiative could tackle it better, but, this is not it.
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  2. #6582
    Commissar Caligula_'s Avatar The Ecstasy of Potatoes
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    Default Re: Townhall - Curial Commentary and Chat

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    I'm relatively new to the Curia, though been here for quite a while. From the short period of time since I've become a citizen and became more exposed to dealings of the Curia the word that comes to mind is disorder. The political turmoils are fun and all but the current state of this institution is chaotic given that one looks for substance. Is it simply lack of substance? Maybe there is no drive. Mods leaving the site with the development of Steam is a major factor for sure. Or is the system flawed enough to undermine content creation? There just seems to be too much noise. To be honest, I'm not really sure what being a citizen added to my site experience.

    There is clearly a need to reform the Curia, both in shape and form. However, its not something that can done through overhaul suggestions of individuals, and it shouldn't be done through amendments. We need a new institution that acknowledges the realities of our time. Of course, first and foremost this is a site about Total War games. That link can not be severed. However, it should be reformed. Steam's monopoly on mods is a reality. There is no going back to good old days. So, new ways to attract fans should be created. That's perhaps the primary task. There are many other sections that could be approached differently.

    While individual efforts to change the Curia is great but the real change should be coming from the Hex with their consensus and the contribution of all Citizens. They should come up with a framework, a new system, fresh and simple, so that Citizens can substantiate that through their proposals. From scratch. A new constitution. New ranks. Clear hierarchy. Clear guidelines. Clear structure. A system that encourages and often require participation. In a site like this change should come from the top. The other way will probably not work.
    If you've got any ideas I suggest you approach Hex with them directly. You won't get anything useful out of the Curia.




  3. #6583
    PikeStance's Avatar ⚜️ Omnipresent ⚜️
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    Default Re: Townhall - Curial Commentary and Chat

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    With that attitude no wonder why those initiatives failed. You're not accomplishing anything by trying to shoot people down. You are welcomed to share your experience so that a new initiative could tackle it better, but, this is not it.
    Fair enough! Years of trying to get some sort of platform to start an initiative to turn things around only for nothing to be done has jaded me. That being said, I will be first to support any real initiative. That being said, there hasn't been any suggestion made now.
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  4. #6584

    Default Re: Townhall - Curial Commentary and Chat

    so the time has come again to reform the curia to save TWC.

    what is the point, what is supposed to draw people to TWC when the Curia has found its perfect form and function?
    nothing, that is what i say, not a god damn thing.

    for TWC to find some sort of relevance the site it self need reforms, it needs a clear purpose.

    is it the debate forums, like DD, TD, Basement etc. that draws people to TWC?
    i seriously doubt it. it may cause people to linger, some beyond their welcome, but it is hardly what make someone come here in the first place.

    is it the mods/moding?
    i believe it is. at least it was for me.
    TWC is still a great repository for TW-mods. although TW has become less modable and other sites does the job just as well and better.

    focusing on promoting mods (new, old, wip, tutorials and resources), starting with the front page, could perhaps garner some new interest.
    and perhaps TWC is not for the masses, but the few and dedicated.
    Hr. Alf han hugg til han var mod, Han sto i femten Ridderes Blod; Så tog han alle de Kogger ni Og sejlede dermed til Norge fri. Og der kom tidende til Rostock ind, Der blegned saa mangen Rosenkind. Der græd Enker og der græd Børn, Dem hadde gjort fattig den skadelige Ørn.
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  5. #6585
    Flinn's Avatar oh man.. I did it again!
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    Default Re: Townhall - Curial Commentary and Chat

    and perhaps TWC is not for the masses, but the few and dedicated.
    the more the time goes, the more I believe this myself

    However, anyone who wants to actively further contribute to the site, should be applying for a Staff position, at first We have the Content, which will allow people to write about history, movies, books, mods, games, interviews, reviews.. and the wiki..; we have the Moderation, that allows people to help in keeping the place clean and will teach you patience and diplomatic skills; we have Gaming, for those interested in hotseats or other forum based games; we have Modding Staff, that will let you help the site and it's modders in their needs..

    Or one can join the Modding and/or the Member Awards committees, that will allow you to participate in the organization and running of the Yearly Site Awards.

    Recently, we have opened up the Wiki and the blogs to non staffers, so if you are not keen in joining an official position, you can still contribute to those sections as a regular member.

    One can as well join the various Art or Writing competitions which are organized by the Content or RPG games organized by the Gaming staff.

    It is still possible to contribute via the Curia as a citizen, by: a) promoting interesting members for citizenship, b) promoting worthy members for awards, c) propose new awards or suggest site improvements.

    Of course one can contribute to the site "just" by posting; some areas, like the D&D, are still vibrant; you can post reviews of games and products if you want. Or you can help out people in need with personal issues, like I did for ages.. or those asking technical questions for their PCs.. or maybe you can discuss new TW games and DLC.. the list is very long

    And there is also the Question and Suggestion forum, where you can come to propose ideas and improvements

    But in any case, always remember this: TWC is a fan site, everybody here, included the people in the Hex, is contributing for free and there's a golden rule to never forget: if you want something done, you'd better consider doing that yourself.

    Abide dudes, the rug ties the site together
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    Commissar Caligula_'s Avatar The Ecstasy of Potatoes
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    Default Re: Townhall - Curial Commentary and Chat

    If we want to focus on mods, we obviously won't win by trying to host mods since Steam is far superior. The benefits of TWC are that tutorials can be hosted here, people can ask modding questions and you can follow Hosted Mods as they're developed. Eg stuff like this should be expanded. http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...orial-amp-More




  7. #6587
    Leonardo's Avatar Reborn Old Timer
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    Default Re: Townhall - Curial Commentary and Chat

    Quote Originally Posted by Commissar Caligula_ View Post
    If we want to focus on mods, we obviously won't win by trying to host mods since Steam is far superior. The benefits of TWC are that tutorials can be hosted here, people can ask modding questions and you can follow Hosted Mods as they're developed. Eg stuff like this should be expanded. http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...orial-amp-More
    That is actually a valid point and having a max file size limit of 100 Mb on TWC Download is ridiculus. Even GHF Download is better than TWC Download, which has a max file size limit of 300 Mb with an option to accept larger mods than 300 Mb.

    When it comes for hosting mods TWC has nothing in comparison to what GHF has. Except for one thing and that's all the content the content staff generates, but how much of that actually touches modding such as mod hosting, very little I am afraid.

    No really working mod hosting structure as most communities have had for years
    Both TWC and GHF has a separate download section for mod hosting
    Also, both community sites are owned by one individual (GED own TWC and Fliggerty own GHF plus MMH, I was part of the development of MMH back in 2010/2011)
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  8. #6588
    Veteraan's Avatar TATW Local Moderator
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    Default Re: Townhall - Curial Commentary and Chat

    Quote Originally Posted by Leonardo View Post
    That is actually a valid point and having a max file size limit of 100 Mb on TWC Download is ridiculus.
    I think you overestimate the relevance of this site having a somewhat modest file size limit and perhaps underestimate the costs of providing a large amount of download space for everybody. There are still hosting sites that are free to use and provide a decent to excellent download service. It really is not a big effort to use those sites and that is exactly what happens for the larger mods that have their home here. I have been doing so for years and never complained about it, nor do I know any modders that seem to think this is a big problem, let alone qualifying this as 'ridiculous'.
    Last edited by Veteraan; September 09, 2019 at 12:16 PM.

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  9. #6589

    Default Re: Townhall - Curial Commentary and Chat

    Quote Originally Posted by Commissar Caligula_ View Post
    If we want to focus on mods, we obviously won't win
    sentiments like this is why each and every attempt to make TWC great again fails, it is that it is an attempt to make TWC great.
    i stated earlier that perhaps TWC is not for the masses but for the few. that was not intended as a lament or statement of failure.
    what if one was to accept the relative obscurity and minimal relevance of TWC, compared to Steam and official forums. then one might find a way to make TWC better for those who use it for moding purposes and by that perhaps inadvertently make it useful for others as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Leonardo View Post
    having a max file size limit of 100 Mb on TWC Download is ridiculus.
    wholeheartedly agree!

    Quote Originally Posted by Leonardo View Post
    When it comes for hosting mods TWC has nothing in comparison to what GHF has. Except for one thing and that's all the content the content staff generates, but how much of that actually touches modding such as mod hosting, very little I am afraid.
    GHF seems to me very messy and unstructured, it is not readily obvious for what game a mod is made. TWC is way better organized.
    generated content at TWC might not be what draws people ti the site, but it helps create a living community and keep people coming back.

    Quote Originally Posted by Veteraan View Post
    I think you overestimate the relevance of this site having a somewhat modest file size limit and perhaps underestimate the costs of providing a large amount of download space for everybody. There are still hosting sites that are free to use and provide a decent to excellent download service. It really is not a big effort to use those sites and that is exactly what happens for the larger mods that have their home here. I have been doing so for years and never complained about it, nor do I know any modders that seem to think this is a big problem, let alone qualifying this as 'ridiculous'.
    it is a HUGE problem. i lost a bunch of stuff while using these free hosts. maps, models, textures, whole rosters and partial mods - all gone now!
    and there is no lack of broken downloadlinks when it comes to released mods either. that is a loss of TWC history and loss of site relevance.
    Hr. Alf han hugg til han var mod, Han sto i femten Ridderes Blod; Så tog han alle de Kogger ni Og sejlede dermed til Norge fri. Og der kom tidende til Rostock ind, Der blegned saa mangen Rosenkind. Der græd Enker og der græd Børn, Dem hadde gjort fattig den skadelige Ørn.
    Anders Sørensen Vedel

  10. #6590
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    Default Re: Townhall - Curial Commentary and Chat

    Quote Originally Posted by absinthia View Post
    it is a HUGE problem. i lost a bunch of stuff while using these free hosts. maps, models, textures, whole rosters and partial mods - all gone now!
    That is certainly unfortunate, but totally and very easily avoidable. You are really asking for trouble if you store your important files at one place, be it at home or online. I host MOS on MEGA and Moddb, but also have a copy of all the files at home.
    Quote Originally Posted by absinthia View Post
    and there is no lack of broken downloadlinks when it comes to released mods either. that is a loss of TWC history and loss of site relevance.
    This can indeed be a bit of a problem. However, I think a minor one as mods with broken download links are usually mods that have been abandoned by their creators, often quite a long time ago. It would be nice if everything was still available, but I think the vast majority of the visitors of this site are not here looking for abandoned mods.

    Having said that, there used to be a feature on this site that was especially meant to preserve all mods. The modding vault it was called IIRC. Don't know what happened to it, but it seems to have vanished, or I'm just not looking a the right place.
    Last edited by Veteraan; September 09, 2019 at 03:33 PM.

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  11. #6591

    Default Re: Townhall - Curial Commentary and Chat

    Quote Originally Posted by Veteraan View Post
    That is certainly unfortunate, but totally and very easily avoidable. You are really asking for trouble if you store your important files at one place, be it at home or online. I host MOS on MEGA and Moddb, but also have a copy of all the files at home.
    had all my moding stufs on a harddrive that totally died (smells like electric fire) and a bunch of it that i had shared at Megaupload and some other sites.

    Quote Originally Posted by Veteraan View Post
    This can indeed be a bit of a problem. However, I think a minor one as mods with broken download links are usually mods that have been abandoned by their creators, often quite a long time ago. It would be nice if everything was still available, but I think the vast majority of the visitors of this site are not here looking for abandoned mods.

    Having said that, there used to be a feature on this site that was especially meant to preserve all mods. The modding vault it was called IIRC. Don't know what happened to it, but it seems to have vanished, or I'm just not looking a the right place.
    these abandoned mods are also completed mods that would be playable had they been stored at TWC. while old mods for old games might not be the hottest it is what make this site unique, that is if they are available.
    not sure what happened to the vault either, had some stuff stored there as well.
    Hr. Alf han hugg til han var mod, Han sto i femten Ridderes Blod; Så tog han alle de Kogger ni Og sejlede dermed til Norge fri. Og der kom tidende til Rostock ind, Der blegned saa mangen Rosenkind. Der græd Enker og der græd Børn, Dem hadde gjort fattig den skadelige Ørn.
    Anders Sørensen Vedel

  12. #6592
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    Default Re: Townhall - Curial Commentary and Chat

    Quote Originally Posted by absinthia View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Commissar Caligula_ View Post
    If we want to focus on mods, we obviously won't win by trying to host mods since Steam is far superior. The benefits of TWC are that tutorials can be hosted here, people can ask modding questions and you can follow Hosted Mods as they're developed. Eg stuff like this should be expanded. http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...orial-amp-More
    sentiments like this is why each and every attempt to make TWC great again fails, it is that it is an attempt to make TWC great.
    i stated earlier that perhaps TWC is not for the masses but for the few. that was not intended as a lament or statement of failure.
    what if one was to accept the relative obscurity and minimal relevance of TWC, compared to Steam and official forums. then one might find a way to make TWC better for those who use it for moding purposes and by that perhaps inadvertently make it useful for others as well.
    If you'd read the rest, you would've said I was saying that TWC obviously can't compete with Steam in terms of hosting mods. For the newer games with Steam Workshop (i.e. Shogun 2 onwards), there's 0 reason to host small mods on TWC. Its easier to just upload them to Steam. The only benefits of TWC are our Hosted Mods, tutorials and a place to ask modding questions.




  13. #6593
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    Default Re: Townhall - Curial Commentary and Chat

    The Curia itself does not, nor has it ever needed to be reform. The Curia as an institution was a means to an end of promoting evolution of the site by active members. Regardless of the procedures in place, it will still function as such. When Citizens focuses more on themselves and their own self-importance, then that is when the Curia (as a body of citizens) fail.

    Some time ago, I started to analyze the types of proposal. I started to developed a hypothesis; Curia became increasingly more about self preservation, than about the site in general. It is not surprising that those that would make valued suggestions worth considering would opt not to bother. In case you have trouble between the line, as citizenship became more exclusive, the site became cliqiue'ish and no one likes cliques.

    BTW, I am absolutely convince the TWC is more ideal place to exchange modding ideas and to promote collaboration among modders than Steam will be in the foreseeable future.
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  14. #6594
    Leonardo's Avatar Reborn Old Timer
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    Default Re: Townhall - Curial Commentary and Chat

    Quote Originally Posted by Veteraan View Post
    That is certainly unfortunate, but totally and very easily avoidable. You are really asking for trouble if you store your important files at one place, be it at home or online. I host MOS on MEGA and Moddb, but also have a copy of all the files at home.

    This can indeed be a bit of a problem. However, I think a minor one as mods with broken download links are usually mods that have been abandoned by their creators, often quite a long time ago. It would be nice if everything was still available, but I think the vast majority of the visitors of this site are not here looking for abandoned mods.
    Why most mods have dead links is something out of control for modders, because external hosting sites can and will change their policy any time and often without a warning in advance.

    So, that's why some mods cannot be found anywhere, because a modder decided to host a mod on an external hosting site like GameFront (the old site) or MegaUpload and both sites are now defunct sites. Which can only be accessible via the Wayback Machine except for MegaUpload due to legal issues with the FBI.

    Quote Originally Posted by Veteraan View Post
    Having said that, there used to be a feature on this site that was especially meant to preserve all mods. The modding vault it was called IIRC. Don't know what happened to it, but it seems to have vanished, or I'm just not looking a the right place.
    You're right the Modding Vault did exist and here is more information about that.
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  15. #6595
    Veteraan's Avatar TATW Local Moderator
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    Default Re: Townhall - Curial Commentary and Chat

    Quote Originally Posted by Leonardo View Post
    Why most mods have dead links is something out of control for modders, because external hosting sites can and will change their policy any time and often without a warning in advance.
    Well, it's not out of control for modders, just make sure you have a backup of the files, as I wrote earlier. It may be a problem if the link disappears after a modder with a thread here has become inactive. Sure, it would be neat if the mod was hosted on TWC, but it will cost extra money. Less than it would have done five years ago probably, but still. Also this site could be gone tomorrow. I certainly don't hope so, but it is a possibility. Then all mods that are only hosted here are gone, unless there is a backup somewhere.

    Quote Originally Posted by Leonardo View Post
    You're right the Modding Vault did exist and here is more information about that.
    Thanks, seems it won't be active anytime soon then.
    Last edited by Veteraan; September 10, 2019 at 06:02 AM.

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  16. #6596
    Leonardo's Avatar Reborn Old Timer
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    Default Re: Townhall - Curial Commentary and Chat

    Quote Originally Posted by Veteraan View Post
    Well, it's not out of control for modders, just make sure you have a backup of the files, as I wrote earlier. It may be a problem if the link disappears after a modder with a thread here has become inactive. Sure, it would be neat if the mod was hosted on TWC, but it will cost extra money. Less than it would have done five years ago probably, but still. Also this site could be gone tomorrow. I certainly don't hope so, but it is a possibility. Then all mods that are only hosted here are gone, unless there is a backup somewhere.
    What you describe is something Arthmoor mentioned as a real problem for the modding community when modders are using external hosting sites back in Summer 2014.

    When I joined here in March 2011, the first thing I notice was the frequent usage of external hosting sites e.g MediaFire (still reliable), MEGA (the new site), ModDB (well known) plus a few other hosting sites such as Filefactory, DepositFiles, but also using torrent is something I am not familiar with from the TES community.

    Some members have said to me that using torrent is safe and reliable, but I see one major problem with torrent as it requires someone to seed a hosted mod. Because if a torrent doesn't have activity for a long time a mod will disappear hence for a broken link at least that's my understanding about using a torrent for a mod.

    I also notice the use of the Modalholics and that sounds quite familiar with what most modders in the TES modding community (Nexus is the largest hosting site out there) often use for their mods.

    Overall, after I compared of how it was in the TES community with what it is in the TW modding community on TWC, is that I came into conclusion that TWC will someday suffer for not having a solid mod hosting structure in place while I'm quite certain of that the TES community will not face the problem as TWC one day will have to deal with in the future.

    All that thanks for having a solid mod hosting structure in place and the TES moddding community have had that for over 10 years.
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  17. #6597
    Flinn's Avatar oh man.. I did it again!
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    Default Re: Townhall - Curial Commentary and Chat

    I'd say that the discussion about hosting mods at TWC is better suited in the Q&S rather than here, because it's a site-wide issue rather than a Curial one. Besides, this is really GED's territory (someone mentioned the costs for that, and he's the one paying the bills, so to say) and he's more likely to reply to any thread in the Q&S rather than in the Curia Chat thread (once he's back, of course).
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  18. #6598
    Veteraan's Avatar TATW Local Moderator
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    Default Re: Townhall - Curial Commentary and Chat

    Quote Originally Posted by Leonardo View Post
    What you describe is something Arthmoor mentioned as a real problem for the modding community when modders are using external hosting sites back in Summer 2014.

    When I joined here in March 2011, the first thing I notice was the frequent usage of external hosting sites e.g MediaFire (still reliable), MEGA (the new site), ModDB (well known) plus a few other hosting sites such as Filefactory, DepositFiles, but also using torrent is something I am not familiar with from the TES community.

    Some members have said to me that using torrent is safe and reliable, but I see one major problem with torrent as it requires someone to seed a hosted mod. Because if a torrent doesn't have activity for a long time a mod will disappear hence for a broken link at least that's my understanding about using a torrent for a mod.

    I also notice the use of the Modalholics and that sounds quite familiar with what most modders in the TES modding community (Nexus is the largest hosting site out there) often use for their mods.

    Overall, after I compared of how it was in the TES community with what it is in the TW modding community on TWC, is that I came into conclusion that TWC will someday suffer for not having a solid mod hosting structure in place while I'm quite certain of that the TES community will not face the problem as TWC one day will have to deal with in the future.

    All that thanks for having a solid mod hosting structure in place and the TES moddding community have had that for over 10 years.
    Well, I think it is a minor problem which can be easily avoided all together by taking some simple precautions. You seem to think it is a major problem that should be solved pronto. It seems unlikely we will change our views on this, so I guess we have to agree to disagree.

    I have no idea who Arthmoor is, nor why a very short comment on another site from more than five years ago is very relevant. Nor is it something I described. Of course it is bad practice to host something on an unreliable site. However, a backup and/or always hosting on more than one site will avoid most of this trouble. You can ignore this, but it doesn't make it less true. I clearly see much less loss in long abandoned mods not having a working download link than you. A working modding vault would be a solution for this, but IIRC it is quite difficult to recruit enough volunteers to actually do the work needed. Still, it would be at best a 'nice to have' feature to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flinn View Post
    I'd say that the discussion about hosting mods at TWC is better suited in the Q&S rather than here, because it's a site-wide issue rather than a Curial one. Besides, this is really GED's territory (someone mentioned the costs for that, and he's the one paying the bills, so to say) and he's more likely to reply to any thread in the Q&S rather than in the Curia Chat thread (once he's back, of course).
    This may very well be not the best place, but it is the place somebody started this discussion again. As far as I'm concerned, all posts on this subject may be moved to the Q&S as a thread on its own. I don't think I have anything left to add to it though, as it seems I already got a bit repetitive.
    Last edited by Veteraan; September 10, 2019 at 10:40 AM.

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  19. #6599
    Flinn's Avatar oh man.. I did it again!
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    Default Re: Townhall - Curial Commentary and Chat

    Quote Originally Posted by Veteraan View Post

    This may very well be not the best place, but it is the place somebody started this discussion again. As far as I'm concerned, all posts on this subject may be moved to the Q&S as a thread on its own. I don't think I have anything left to add to it though, as it seems I already got a bit repetitive.
    Personally, I'd rather prefer is someone starts over a new discussion in the Q&S, this in order to have a clean OP which can be reasonably discussed
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  20. #6600
    Veteraan's Avatar TATW Local Moderator
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    Default Re: Townhall - Curial Commentary and Chat

    Quote Originally Posted by Flinn View Post
    Personally, I'd rather prefer is someone starts over a new discussion in the Q&S, this in order to have a clean OP which can be reasonably discussed
    No problem, I indicated those posts may be moved, absolutely not that they must.

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