Townhall - Curial Commentary and Chat

[Lifthrasir]

I distinctly remember when I was a Censor, 7 years ago, that there were instructions in the Politia for the Curator and Censors, or they were instructed via PM in either case specific instruction was given, to not divulge anything to anyone unless the citizen in question specifically requests the proceedings to be made public.

It used to be that way. It was still there during Hader's reform.
It seems to have been removed during the StealthFox's amendment and has never been mentioned again during the next amendments. I can't say if it has been done on purpose or if it's just a mistake.

Or, even more likely, it could just mean that you are mistaken.

Or you could just have made some research as I did.

[ggggtotalwarrior]

Good on you for pulling this info up. Kind of explains why both sides are coming from the places that they are. Those who previously held the position were explicitly given this information while it was stealthily and perhaps accidentally removed from written law prior to the current Consul’s tenure/involvement in the Curia. Could explain the level of hostility of both sides who think the other side is “entirely” incorrect

[Gigantus]

... and that's why we need this amendment.

[Flinn]

Ok so, let me ask a general question to all the Citizens:

- What is, in your opinion, a behavior unbecoming of a Citizen?

Let me be straight: I don't want to make up any amendment, while I personally hold myself at the highest standards possible (though ofc I'm not perfect, I err like anyone else), I never really believed in the Citizenship's higher standards as a rule or even as a best practice, so to say, for various reasons.. anyone who knows me, knows my reasons as well.
Anyways, I'm very curious what could be, subjectively, the reasons that will lead each of us to support and vote in favor of a motion that will deprive another member of a supposedly well earned Citizenship award.

Just be straight, very straight

Due notices: the reason why I did not put a Discussion in the Proth is dual; from one side, it will be great if people will simply throw in their subjective ideas and move on, and while I can't of course prevent people to comment on other people's posts, I'd be glad and grateful if for once we can abstain to debate the point and just leave here our opinions for the posterity; the second reason is that with all the due respect of the invalutabile input some non or former citizens can give to this point in discussion, this is indeed a purely Curial matter, so I deem it should really be limited to Citizens, ATL within the Curia main fora.

[Gigantus]

I find it easier to think of what a citizen should not behave like:

Like not continuously testing the limits of the ToS in the discussion threads - challenge the limits in an actual discussion about it.
Being able to get a grip on oneself in a tense discussion instead of verbally flying off the handle, be it implicit or explicit.

That kind of thing, straight enough for me.

[PointOfViewGun]

Ok so, let me ask a general question to all the Citizens:

- What is, in your opinion, a behavior unbecoming of a Citizen?

Let me be straight: I don't want to make up any amendment, while I personally hold myself at the highest standards possible (though ofc I'm not perfect, I err like anyone else), I never really believed in the Citizenship's higher standards as a rule or even as a best practice, so to say, for various reasons.. anyone who knows me, knows my reasons as well.
Anyways, I'm very curious what could be, subjectively, the reasons that will lead each of us to support and vote in favor of a motion that will deprive another member of a supposedly well earned Citizenship award.

Just be straight, very straight

Due notices: the reason why I did not put a Discussion in the Proth is dual; from one side, it will be great if people will simply throw in their subjective ideas and move on, and while I can't of course prevent people to comment on other people's posts, I'd be glad and grateful if for once we can abstain to debate the point and just leave here our opinions for the posterity; the second reason is that with all the due respect of the invalutabile input some non or former citizens can give to this point in discussion, this is indeed a purely Curial matter, so I deem it should really be limited to Citizens, ATL within the Curia main fora.

A basic level of civility should have been a good starting point. In fact, Citizenship is contribution to the site with a proven record of civility. Contribution is basically the entrance fee, hence, doesn't require repetition. However, civility is a requirement. If that record is broken either extremely (receiving an infraction) or through continuous behavior then one must be stripped of their Citizenship. The simplicity of it is what frustrates some of us given the context of the latest Ostrakons.

[Lifthrasir]

To be perfectly honest, I'm so desillusioned that I'd say nothing as long it stays within the limits set by the ToS. I've given up a long while ago. The curia is nothing more that an award committee in my opinion. As such it shouldn't have any special status or treatment.

[ggggtotalwarrior]

... and that's why we need this amendment.

… and that’s why by the time you wrote this post I had already written my support of such an amendment in that very thread.

@Flinn IMO it is hard to gauge a citizen’s role in modern TWC just because the site demographics have changed so much in terms of active users that a select group of citizens who more personally know/have years of history with each other probably now make up a majority of site activity, so they have less of a “leading the plebs by example” role as in years past. I think like Gig said it shouldn’t include perpetually pushing ToS limits and should kind of at minimum involve to a small degree pursuing the behaviors that if done with consistency usually amount to one of the large awards.

I don’t know if that’s the best way to explain it but someone who to some small degree, if not with the consistency or excellence of someone awarded the Loincloth, brings about a funny/good time for other users, and so on for the behaviors linked to each major award. Basically be courteous, committed, funny, helpful, etc. (each one the usual criteria for one of the major awards) without being intentionally negative, off-topic, condescending, unhinged or inflammatory to the point any of your positive contributions are overshadowed by your negatives. IMO also, Artifex and modding contributions don’t automatically undo any sort of malus to my perception of your “citizen score” in following these tenets if your posting behavior is horrendous.

Ninja Edit: @Lifth that is an unfortunate side effect of a site that is forced to just spin its wheels and not enact major, massive changes due to a lack of ownership involvement. I love the site for nostalgia and friendships I’ve made but some things have just changed too much both within and outside the site for it to continually bring in new membership to make up for losses, and that kills a lot of what would be happening here under optimal circumstances.

[Gigantus]

… and that’s why by the time you wrote this post I had already written my support of such an amendment in that very thread

I thankfully had noticed - that's just me still in Cato mood.

[Muizer]

@Flinn IMO it is hard to gauge a citizen’s role in modern TWC just because the site demographics have changed so much in terms of active users that a select group of citizens who more personally know/have years of history with each other probably now make up a majority of site activity, so they have less of a “leading the plebs by example” role as in years past.

This is certainly a factor and, IMHO, not a positive one. It seems both in the Curia and in the debating forums, one consequence of knowing each other's positions well has been a very obvious "Here we go again. Why bother exchanging views, let's go straight to sniping from our respective trenches" attitude. I've seen it happen in threads, worse, across threads and even hints of it happening across platforms. IMHO this behaviour, even when it's not a violation of the ToS is distinctly un-citizenlike. It makes TWC an inhospitable place.

[♔Greek Strategos♔]

Ok so, let me ask a general question to all the Citizens:

- What is, in your opinion, a behavior unbecoming of a Citizen?

Let me be straight: I don't want to make up any amendment, while I personally hold myself at the highest standards possible (though ofc I'm not perfect, I err like anyone else), I never really believed in the Citizenship's higher standards as a rule or even as a best practice, so to say, for various reasons.. anyone who knows me, knows my reasons as well.
Anyways, I'm very curious what could be, subjectively, the reasons that will lead each of us to support and vote in favor of a motion that will deprive another member of a supposedly well earned Citizenship award.

Just be straight, very straight

Due notices: the reason why I did not put a Discussion in the Proth is dual; from one side, it will be great if people will simply throw in their subjective ideas and move on, and while I can't of course prevent people to comment on other people's posts, I'd be glad and grateful if for once we can abstain to debate the point and just leave here our opinions for the posterity; the second reason is that with all the due respect of the invalutabile input some non or former citizens can give to this point in discussion, this is indeed a purely Curial matter, so I deem it should really be limited to Citizens, ATL within the Curia main fora.

I find it easier to think of what a citizen should not behave like:

Like not continuously testing the limits of the ToS in the discussion threads - challenge the limits in an actual discussion about it.
Being able to get a grip on oneself in a tense discussion instead of verbally flying off the handle, be it implicit or explicit.

That kind of thing, straight enough for me.

Pretty much what Gig already said.
I used to think that Citizenship is something unique, which evidently could lead to ''elitism'' and that's something Ι honestly can't connect with, especially after all these years.
From my early Staff days, I followed a very simple rule, ''treat others the way you want to be treated yourself'' (yeah yeah I know it sounds too Christian) but it's actually excessively simple. So, always be helpful, cooperative and polite. Leave your personal issues outside and bring your best self to the Forums.
I can surely understand that every personality is different and varied behaviors are most of the times possible or even unavoidable. We all have different backgrounds-upbringing etc.

To make a long story short try NOT to be an hole. Can it be all so simple? Well yeah, it surely can. BUT...

PS1
I know it's hard for some people, because they suffer from serious disorders (I'm talking about mental or serious pathological afflictions) and for them I'm willing to accept-propose a special ''treatment''.
PS2
I personally know a few people from the Forums, people you'd easily ostracize without hesitation and that's all I can say for now

[PikeStance]

Ok so, let me ask a general question to all the Citizens:

- What is, in your opinion, a behavior unbecoming of a Citizen?

Let me be straight: I don't want to make up any amendment, while I personally hold myself at the highest standards possible (though ofc I'm not perfect, I err like anyone else), I never really believed in the Citizenship's higher standards as a rule or even as a best practice, so to say, for various reasons.. anyone who knows me, knows my reasons as well.
Anyways, I'm very curious what could be, subjectively, the reasons that will lead each of us to support and vote in favor of a motion that will deprive another member of a supposedly well earned Citizenship award.

Just be straight, very straight

Due notices: the reason why I did not put a Discussion in the Proth is dual; from one side, it will be great if people will simply throw in their subjective ideas and move on, and while I can't of course prevent people to comment on other people's posts, I'd be glad and grateful if for once we can abstain to debate the point and just leave here our opinions for the posterity; the second reason is that with all the due respect of the invalutabile input some non or former citizens can give to this point in discussion, this is indeed a purely Curial matter, so I deem it should really be limited to Citizens, ATL within the Curia main fora.

Still this...

I find it easier to think of what a citizen should not behave like:

Like not continuously testing the limits of the ToS in the discussion threads - challenge the limits in an actual discussion about it.
Being able to get a grip on oneself in a tense discussion instead of verbally flying off the handle, be it implicit or explicit.

That kind of thing, straight enough for me.

Common sense alludes... bravo! But where will this go?

[AnthoniusII]

Is my ostrakon case over ? If no when I will have the final desision? If yes why the label has not been changed to dismiss or anything else?

[Akar]

Yes, it is over. The thread is archived. The results of the vote are public and you were not Ostrakoned.

There is not a "dismissed" or any other label for that archive so it will not receive a label.

https://www.twcenter.net/forums/show...on-AnthoniusII

[Gigantus]

NVM - please delete.

[Akar]

I've decided to do away with elections entirely.

[Sir Adrian]

I summon kniarf the tyrant remover

[Lifthrasir]

No need. A simple revolution should do the trick

[Gaius Baltar]

I hope Gigantus runs for Consul, we could use an experienced and competent administrator in the position.

[♔Greek Strategos♔]

Because he's the hero TWC needs, but not the one it deserves