Townhall - Curial Commentary and Chat

[PikeStance]

I hope Gigantus runs for Consul, we could use an experienced and competent administrator in the position.

You're being presumptuous.

[Lifthrasir]

When can we expect the election in any case? Because unless I'm mistaken, the consul is late for about a couple of days already to setup the application thread
And even if...

I've decided to do away with elections entirely.

It doesn't change that fact because every self-respecting dictator must organize rigged elections.

[Akar]

Elections are due to begin on the 15th.

[Lifthrasir]

I agree that the poll should start on the 15th of May taking into account the last consul election: https://www.twcenter.net/forums/show...XI-2021-Consul

However, like for any election here or in RL, the process should be completed before the current term ends. Unless I'm mistaken, the procedure is 4 days for the application thread and 7 days for the poll.
That means, and still considering the last consul election, that an application thread and and debate thread should have been already made prior to the poll for the coming election.

[Akar]

So if you agree with me that the election should start on the 15th then what are you complaining about?

Or are you suggesting the Const. should be amended so that elections start earlier?

[Lifthrasir]

You miss/ignore the point. The poll should start on the 15th of may, meaning that the application and debate threads should have been setup on the 12th of May. We're already the 14th and still no threads. Hence my question from yesterday.

As it is now, if you start on the 15th, it means the poll will start on the 19th earlier, meaning that your current term will end on the 26th, about 4 days after it should.

[PikeStance]

I do not know why people think that the election needs to be concluded one day before the end of the previous term. In every real life situation, the conclusion of an election is well before the person takes office. There is no reason why the election could have taken place already. Given that is some elections, candidates are difficult to come by, it is not a bad idea to do so.

[Lifthrasir]

Last January, the delay was about 9 days. Are we gonna do the same now? If yes, we need to clarify the duration of the consul term which is 4 months, not 4 months plus or minus a week.
And as you mentionned RL situation, what would you think if for your next presidential election, Biden decides to do it on December or during the following January instead of November? Same principle applies here. A bit of rigor for once wouldn't hurt the curia.

[PikeStance]

Yes, no need to elect in the 11th hour. A Consul is an administrator of a sub-forum. An outgoing consul would not be a "lame duck" consul.

It probably should have already been done, but having a set date for each term of Consul with elections taking place a set time prior. For example
Jan. 1 - Mar. 31
Apr. 1 - Jul. 31
Aug. 1 - Dec. 31

Have the election process start 3 weeks prior. In this case it would be set days
Mar. 10
Jul. 10
Dec. 10

Obviously, I would not pick these particular dates because Christmas/ New Year would be a terrible tie for an election.

I think you get the gist. This would remove all ambiguity in the election process.
We can do the same thing for the Magistrate as well.

[Gigantus]

According to the application thread the consul's term apparently has already expired. Or it's a lazy copy\paste from the last time when it actually was.

The debate thread is here.

One might have reasonably expected for the election to be announced in this thread, but then experience lately has shown that it's rather a case of 'it ain't in the rules, it ain't apply' - like timely elections.

Or basing decisions on reality.

Or being accountable.

[Gaius Baltar]

The Constitution needs a spelling check here;

All former administrators who have served at least six months are also eligible to identify as a Partician.³

[AnthoniusII]

i copied this from the curent votting procedure:

Consul Debate Thread

As Akar's' term has expired, it is time to elect the next Consul.

You may apply in the Application Thread.

Consul Explained

• The Consul serves a 4 month term as the care-taker of the Curia. The office ensures the Constitution is correctly applied and is responsible for interpreting it when needed, having the final say on Curial procedure not clearly stated in the Constitution. The Consul acts as a local moderator of the Curia and its related fora and is responsible for ensuring the Curia's day-to-day tasks are accomplished. Two Censors, appointed by the Consul, assist with Curial tasks.
  
  The Consul has a wide-range of responsibilities one of which includes managing citizenship applications: adding polls, archiving finished applications, informing patrons and the applicant of the outcome. They also manage the citizenship groups accepting new citizens into their desired group. The office is also responsible for managing the Prothalamos to move proposal threads to votes, archive the results, and amend the Constitution or inform Hex of a Decision or an Award that needs to be granted depending on the type of proposal. Additionally, the Consul organizes election threads, checks the eligibility of candidates, and archives the results. The Consul collates and publishes Curial activity in the Tabularium registers and in the Curia Reports and is furthermore encouraged to post Articles about the on-goings of the Curia.
  The Consul can be identified by a Bold Purple Username and the following badge:
  
  

Consul Requirements

• Consul - citizenship for at least three months; cannot have received a Curial or Moderation Warning for at least one month

Applications will close in one week.

I want to ask why curia members have different law standards than every other members?
If a Concul aplicant needs only ONE month without a moderation warning then whey Opifex needs SIX (6) ?
That is a case of double standards. Opifex awards are for modders that atleast do not directly affect the "life" of the site members as a Concul does. Then why this huge difference?

[Gaius Baltar]

i copied this from the curent votting procedure:

I want to ask why curia members have different law standards than every other members?
If a Concul aplicant needs only ONE month without a moderation warning then whey Opifex needs SIX (6) ?
That is a case of double standards. Opifex awards are for modders that atleast do not directly affect the "life" of the site members as a Concul does. Then why this huge difference?

I seem to remember that it used to be a 1 year period (for Consul), not sure when or why it was reduced so much.

[Flinn]

That is actually redundant/lacking in explanation I guess; any citizen who receives a moderation warning (aka infraction) and does not appeal it/loses the appeal, will have their Citizenship suspended as long as the infraction lasts. If in the meanwhile they incur in other infractions, the suspension period will of course extend. Curial warnings do not exist anymore, afaik (formerly known as Citizen referrals).

So, if a Citizen has an active infraction, they cannot apply for any Curial office, since they are suspended (Curial-wise). After they are allowed back in the ranks, so to say, they are allowed to apply for any Curial position.

Anyways,

Any Curial Officer receiving a Moderation or Curial warning is immediately removed from office.

Are you wondering if the Constitution needs a throughout check up and a lot of minor formative changes? Yes it does.. quite a lot of people, even recently, have proposed a rewrite of the Consitution, but none of those has ever been put to vote (afaik).

[General Brewster]

Lifthrasir becoming consul is the best thing to ever happen to the Curia.

Brew out.

[AnthoniusII]

That is actually redundant/lacking in explanation I guess; any citizen who receives a moderation warning (aka infraction) and does not appeal it/loses the appeal, will have their Citizenship suspended as long as the infraction lasts. If in the meanwhile they incur in other infractions, the suspension period will of course extend. Curial warnings do not exist anymore, afaik (formerly known as Citizen referrals).

So, if a Citizen has an active infraction, they cannot apply for any Curial office, since they are suspended (Curial-wise). After they are allowed back in the ranks, so to say, they are allowed to apply for any Curial position.

Anyways,



Are you wondering if the Constitution needs a throughout check up and a lot of minor formative changes? Yes it does.. quite a lot of people, even recently, have proposed a rewrite of the Consitution, but none of those has ever been put to vote (afaik).

You did not answer my question. Why a candidate Concul has to have only ONE month since the last expired infraction to run for the office and a candidate for Opifex has to have SIX months from his last expired infraction? WHY those double measures. AREN'T all members under the same laws? Why this destirmination espesialy for an office with RESPONSIBILLITIES?

[Lifthrasir]

^^ Flinn has actually answered to your question by saying that the Constitution needs to be reviewed. I don't think that anybody will be able to give you a better explanation for now.
This is obviously another point that needs to be checked in any case.

[Akar]

Lifthrasir becoming consul is the best thing to ever happen to the Curia.

Brew out.

I'm emancipating myself

[Flinn]

^^ Flinn has actually answered to your question by saying that the Constitution needs to be reviewed. I don't think that anybody will be able to give you a better explanation for now.
This is obviously another point that needs to be checked in any case.

Also, it might be worth to further distinguish between Curial Offices and Awards. Curial Offices are temporary (4 months), awards are "forever", since only Administration (Hex) can strip a member of their awards (afaik it only happened when said members are indefinitely suspended, aka banned). Also, any member can ask Hex to strip them of their awards, but they can still ask them back.
As a matter of fact, if one is Ostrakoned, they will lose the Citizenship and Patrician "rank", but won't lose all the Curial awards they received.

In any case I personally don't think that any disciplinary barrier should be put to Awards, but this is just, like, my opinion, man, and ofc it's worth a separate discussion.

[AnthoniusII]

In any case I personally don't think that any disciplinary barrier should be put to Awards, but this is just, like, my opinion, man, and ofc it's worth a separate discussion.

In this we agree. We must find the time to discuss the link of disciplinary penalties of one member to his actuall modding work that are completly differend areas.